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Chrisguyw

Thunderslot M6 Proxy build

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Hi Folks, This car has been built for an upcoming CanAm proxy (1966-1974), and looks to have entries from a few countries

While I do prefer to enter scratchbuilt chassied cars, time constraints this year (my golf club has just opened)....I have decided to take the quick and easy route and put together , a Thunderslot chassis, under a Thunderslot M6.

I built two variations, with one going to a fellow club member........still undecided on which one to run for myself as they both are very very close in consistency and lap times.

Cheers

Chris Walker

The first is an anglewinder pod, with an NSR 22K, MRSlotcar gearing, silicone damped pod, and a rear axle brace, running on NSR Ultras.

DSCN4715.jpg

The second is a Sidewinder pod (although the T.Slot pods are a 2 degree angle !!, so sidewinder is a bit of a misnomer )..........with a Piranha 21K motor, and essentially the same bits as the other.

DSCN4716.jpg

As I don't like running duplicate liveries, I have done a fantasy livery, which I think looks period correct.

DSCN4706.jpg

 

DSCN4707.jpg

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3 hours ago, Oldskool62 said:

@Chrisguywloos good. As a beginner trying to learn the dark arts of tuning what does an axle brace do?

It stops the rear uprights flexing independently,........this can ....1/ cause the axle to bind, 2/ cause mesh issues, and 3/ result in chatter.........none of which are all that good for helping with lap times ;)

 

Cheers

Chris Walker

Edited by Chrisguyw
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Lovely work - again, Chris.....

I have the same white kit yet to be started on. 

First I've seen of using an axle brace - if I am not wrong, this is the "L" shaped bracket across the rear of the pod - held down by screws and Nylocs...?

Did you fabricate this yourself, of is it commercially marketed?

Also, what did you use for your weights?.... they seem dull like lead - from lead sheet?

Love the livery - simple, but very clean and "just" the right amount of decals.

Paint?

We have stumbled onto a new paint supplier here in Oz.... SMS. The chap is a long term modeler and has ventured into developing, producing and marketing his own product.

It is all acrylic lacquer - and he goes a long way into explaining what the product is. It comes pre-thinned for air brush use in a 30 ml bottle - but he also supplies thinners, retarders and levelers.... I have not sprayed a slot car with it yet... but results from other models have been extremely pleasing. It flows out beautifully from the brush and dries very quickly. The clear coat is probably the clearest I have yet used, and dries to a hard shell-like coating.

I have not applied it over decals as yet.... but I read that it is not as invasive as many of other manufacturers.... a mist coat prior to a wet coat seems to appease most decals.... will report when I've had a play.

He further markets a number of very fine pigmented 2K colours and some "colour shifts".

 

Looking forward to getting an optic on your second model.

 

frats,

Rosco

Edited by rosco01
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1 hour ago, rosco01 said:

Lovely work - again, Chris.....

 

First I've seen of using an axle brace - if I am not wrong, this is the "L" shaped bracket across the rear of the pod - held down by screws and Nylocs...?

Did you fabricate this yourself, of is it commercially marketed?

Also, what did you use for your weights?.... they seem dull like lead - from lead sheet?

 

Hi Rosco, The axle brace is actually the "U" shaped brace across the rear of the pod, and ,as mentioned in my prior post, it ties the axle uprights together, eliminating independent flexing of the uprights/bushings. which for a variety of reasons, is not all that good.

Motor bracket bracing was seen starting  in the mid 60's with most of the top pro racers using,..gussets, brass sheet.wire etc. to stop flexing of the motor bracket, and anything one can do to improve the stiffness of the current crop of flimsy plastic motor pods is a very good idea. More than a dozen years ago Sloting Plus came out with an axle tube that had bushings installed in the tube, and they worked wonders, I bought a bunch, and use them in any motor pod I can. 

A couple of shots of the brace made for the TSlot motor pod...........a piece of .055 wire bent to fit snuggly into the chassis, and secured with Locktite 380.

 

DSCN4679.jpg

 

DSCN4677.jpg

 

A SlotingPlus axle tube installed into an NSR pod.......it works wonders

 

DSCN4390.jpg

 

And a Eurosport chassis...soldered spring steel, with a wire brace tying both axle uprights together.

 

vyrp12-157-RH-ES32-2016-2.jpg

And a recent build  of a very early 70's style chassis with an axle tube.............independent flexing of the rear uprights, has always been a bad thing ;)

post-11-0-78148000-1363534615-copy-2.jpg

 

Cheers

Chris Walker

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Thanks Chis - my learning curve has just "tilted" skywards.

I have absolutely no experience of this new-to-me support, but fully expect that it will now be incorporated into every model I either purchase or strip down for a refit.... 

I have many Slot-It models - all with this same apparent ability to flex - I'll compare one against the other as progression is made through the fleet.

In all the Slot-It GT-40's I have - I have installed the optional rear suspension system... it works a treat on Scalextric plastic track - being able to balance out undulations laterally across the track... 

I have yet to strip one of these down, but believe the fitting of this new-fandangled (to me) can be incorporated.... it's the tilting/twisting alignment of the axle in the pod which is the issue.... if the motor goes with the suspension, the incorporation of such bracket will ensure that the assembly stays rigid as one... yet, the axle can "float" up/down in the chassis to smooth out contact with the imperfect track... I'll take a very close look at this, Chris - but, I can attest that the fitting of the suspension springs/assembly to these GT40 models most certainly affords better times on poor plastic track.... which is all that I have.

 

Thanks for your reply - any word on the weights used in your T/S chassis....?

 

frats,

Rosco

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Some time ago i mentioned about the Thunderslot chassis being a bit to flexi hence i started using the hard chassis and pod , basically to stiffen the thing up which work.s very well , as from that mom,ent on never had any flexing in the rear axle area  even using much more powerful motors than Chris is here.

As he said bracing is not new blimey we used it back in the 60,s a lot and with these plastic chassis and pods today which seem to be getting thinner and thinner i reckon along with Chris  it,s a very good mod. those slotting plus tubes are great when you can get them , i have used aliminum and brass tune to do the same thing which seems to be just as good, i expect Chris may disagree with me he normally does with things i do chuckle.

 

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2 hours ago, Oldskool62 said:

@rosco01Firstly great to see a post from you. I miss your detail. Secondly I am glad that you also have learnt about this brace.

 

Cheers

 

Warren

Busy as all heck at present, Warren... in matters outside hobbies. 

Slot cars have been locked away in the "vault" for six or seven weeks now.. with only the LJ body free to work on when I have time (rare).

I had never considered a brace across the back of a plastic chassis... not fully appreciating just how much flex occurs under load from the motor to the wheels.

It may explain some of the strange noises I have been listening to for decades.... in particular, the Scalextric GT-40 Mk 2's that I have a couple of... one is better than the other, but I now expect that it is firmer.... they will both get the piano wire bracket addition - and we'll note if it improves/removes this apparent mysterious noise...

I will have much to do when I return to the hobby later on in the year. It was a rush to get the Tasman Cup proxy car up and posted.... with that out of the way, I was able to mothball slot car projects for now,  hence my absence from the forum of late.

I have purchased a second T/S Mosler - bit unfair to only run one in competition - so, I will have two when the second arrives.

Also - the Winfield Slot-It Skyline and Peter/Phil Brock's Scalextric A9-X are both on pre-order... 

 

Apologies for swamping your thread, Chris.... still keen to learn what weights you used on the M6A... and what paint/colour you created such a lovely looking period model with...

 

frats,

Rosco

 

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A couple of answers to a couple of questions............

 

1/ The paint colour on the M6 is Tamiya TS 58 "Light Pearl Blue".........shot right out of the can.

2/ The triangle formed by pinion (motor shaft), and the rear axle bushings should be as stiff as possible, in any motor configuration (inline,sidewinder.anglewinder)..........flex in this area causes, axle binding, gear mesh issues, and, axle hop,........none of which are highly recommended for quick lap times nor longevity. The stiffness in this area becomes more important with,...stronger motors, grippier tyres, fast/flowing tracks (anything that generates more load/twisting force on the rear of the car.

3/ While improving the rigidity of the rear end "triangle" is absolutely worthwhile, it is far less critical on plastic tracks, where the relative lack of grip, and the bumpy nature of the track (the rear tyres are  likely off the track as much as on, when running on plastic), lessens its effectiveness.

4/ The Scaleauto RT3 "RED" motor pods are the stiffest pods currently on the market, and need no modifications

5/ Keith, I do not always disagree with you ;)

Cheers

Chris Walker

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Thanks Chris, all questions thus far answered and acknowledged.

I'll take a closer look at the suspension system fitted to my Slot-It GT40 fleet.. but, from memory, that triangle is fixed - I'll make it more rigid.

I firmly (excuse pun) believe it's the pod that affords suspension - not the rear axle. I can't for the life of me come to believe that Slot-It would create such a fault... but, I'll check when I open the vault again in four or five months' time... next planned return to the hobby.

Will PM you and explain pending break.....

 

frats, 

Rosco

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1 hour ago, rosco01 said:

 

I firmly (excuse pun) believe it's the pod that affords suspension - not the rear axle. I can't for the life of me come to believe that Slot-It would create such a fault... 

frats, 

Rosco

Pod movement and torsional flex in the chassis plate are the elements that provide "suspension",......there should be absolutely no movement of the axle in relationship to the motor shaft/pinion.

Many motor pods (Slot-it included) are quite flimsy, and do allow some independent "twist" of the axle uprights...........Slot-it themselves introduced a "wire" brace for the rear of their inline motor pods, and while the intent was good, the design, and effectiviness,...not so much!!

Chris Walker

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When I get to them, I'll run a report thread on this Chris..... I'm certain now from what you post - that I can effect some tuning of these pods.

From memory, the rear pod suspension arrangement was such that an adjustable screw set both extremes of pod travel. Two screws at the front of the pod afforded greater control of fine tuning. Differing spring tensions were available.. from a very soft to a fairly firm. I believe I set mine with something in the mid-range... my track is really not that bad - but it's plastic track - and the factory undulations ire identical in each straight piece... I really look after my track, it is cleaned and the running rails wiped down with Inox before being all packaged up in the original boxes and stored until next use.... I have always been this way since purchasing my first D straight in 1966..... a discipline which I simply can't bring myself not to continue with... 

I believe the U shaped piano wire addition and some 380 will bring the componentry of the pod to a much more rigid state.. and very much look forward to learning of what effect this upgrade will bring to each model.

Of all the piano wire chassis models I have now constructed - each of them has that rigid U shaped rear bracket - the motor firmly locked to it by screws, and the axle secured in place by the soldered in brass/bronze bushes... it is this that we wish to replicate in commercial plastic etc chassis pods... 

 

I have had great success with some earlier Scalextric models which never ran right - a Triumph TR-7 and a Mk1 Escort immediately come to mind. There was so much flex of the rear axle/pinion arrangement in those models that they bound up continually... and flexed out  causing gear teeth chomping.

I corrected this as best I could with heavy applications of JB-weld with some wire embedded into it - it made a huge difference to the performance and longevity of the drive-train.... 

With the Slot-It chassis - each of my GT-40's (I think there are 8) - I stripped the chassis and re-learned the plastic in the hot bath/long cool process.. using a flat metal plate and magnets to keep it perfectly flat until the plastic re-learned itself... 

Each of those models was a lot easier to set up once the chassis was true... none of them came out of the factory with it in a flat plane.... some were close, but none of them could be positioned on a set-up plate with trued wheels and tyres without one wheel lifting when the opposite side/end was pushed down on the plate.

Probably didn't do a lot for plastic track use - but it certainly made them better performers when I used to take them to a club wood set up..... 

Plastic track is for people who don't have room for a wood layout.. I'm convinced of this... I'd love to have room to make one - but like just so many things in my life - each hobby only has enough room/storage for a certain percentage overall.... I yearn for space, but understand I'd simply fill it with more "stuff".... 

 

frats,

Rosco

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It is sometimes a bit complicated here running on mainly Carrera or recently Policar track when you enter proxies which are mainly on wood tracks , what works well on one does not always work well on another, running on Carrera which is now around 6 years old is not that easy to set up as it,s got a bit worn, so you have to allow for that , where as the Policar track is great to run on as it,s not had the wear so easier to set up on and gives a better feeling of how the chassis is really working.

Having said that i actually have built a set of cars in most of the proxy classes specifically for wood as a friend of mine over at Stanstead has the old 4 lane Ford Dunton track so occasionally i can set up my cars on that especially for the NZ proxies like the Group 5 e.t.c, and it,s suprising the differance in the times , the wood track is pretty smooth and a painted surface , and of course i can run cars lower than on Carrera because you have to allow for the rails on that.

There are so many differant things you can do for spacific tracks , always good to get advice from those that know, and for Chris i don't need rails to get a Pirana 25 k ballrave motor  to go well , one of mine holds the lap record at the Ford track and wood has not mag attact, chuckle :rolleyes: unless you know differant.  

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6 hours ago, rosco01 said:

 

Of all the piano wire chassis models I have now constructed - each of them has that rigid U shaped rear bracket - the motor firmly locked to it by screws, and the axle secured in place by the soldered in brass/bronze bushes... it is this that we wish to replicate in commercial plastic etc chassis pods... 

 

I

Precisely !!!,..........this complete assembly  (motor/axle, gears/wheels )can rotate torsionally, as a complete unit,.... as a motor pod can do in its chassis plate......this torsional rotation of the whole assembly allows the outside tyre to load and compress progressively, improving grip and handling.

You do not want any movement in the triangle formed by the motor shaft (pinion), and the rear axle/axle uprights.

 

Cheers

Chris Walker

 

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Thanks again, Chris.

You have given me more to strive for when I tune a model..... we have all heard of the "fire triangle"... now we have the "drive triangle".... simples.... 

 

frats,

Rosco

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