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Good report Mac. Sounds like you are the secret ingredient. Regards Chas Le Breton

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24 minutes ago, charlesx said:

Good report Mac. Sounds like you are the secret ingredient.

Haha. I think it’s mainly about tyre prep, and the right prep for the track surface. 

I also think lots of the guys put weight in their cars and set up the pod the same way every time, then alter their driving style to get the car to handle well - rather than fine-tuning weight and pod movement to get the desired result for each specific car.  

We all know that a nice handling, stable car is the key to going fast but some entrants over the weekend didn’t seem to have fine-tuning in their game plan. I helped a couple of guys with pod tuning and they dropped 2-3 tenths off their lap times immediately. 


Podiums are for short people.

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Great you were prepared to help Mac. I am sure it was much appreciated. I recall I came to last event totally unprepared and paid the price. My little brother finally got car going OK once back home and it was competitive with both the Taranaki drivers that also competed. On the day they were streets ahead.

 Interested you say it is all in tyre preparation or do you mean glung and truing and probably motor mount adjusting. Perhaps the rules changed this year but no tyre treatment was allowed previously. Admit if you have a flash tyre truer a good drivable car is easier to achieve but traction was certainly not my problem and I would not let my brother touch my tyres. Cannot say the same for my driving.

All the best to everyone for the future though. I may see you at the 1/32nd RTR Nationals but no commitment at this stage.

Regards Chas Le Breton

 

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So,  coming back to Mark's original point of 'where to go from here?'...  

Having talked with Tony, and other guys over the weekend, it's clear that people have very different ideas about weight volume and placement. I try and add as little weight as possible, and target placement directly behind the guide in the centre of the chassis. Tony tells me the Nelson crew all avoid placement directly behind the guide at all costs. They like lots of weight and having it on the chassis sides, between the middle of the chassis and the  motor.  

Personally, I would be keen on keeping the 90g maximum, but dropping the minimum weight requirement so tuners can run their cars how they want to. 


Podiums are for short people.

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Thanks everyone for taking the time to give feedback, it helps everyone to see what others are thinking. 
That goes for other events as well where people are conflicted by model differences.
I suspect that in all the chain of replies, the main point of my post may have been unclear or gotten a little lost.

Do what you may, the Opel begins with a distinct advantage. That has proven the case all over the world, where Slot.it DTM has become almost a single car class.
I tried to write the rules in 2018 to level the playing field a little, especially with a new class, where people had just invested in a car (other than the Opel)

In the previous two DTM, I allowed weight in the Alfas (and would have in the Mercedes in 2020 had the event not been canceled due to Covid.)
This slowed the Alfa straight line speed a little, but gave them better handling, and showed in the overall pack results those two years, where Opels came out on top, but the results were close-ish. 

As I couldn't be faffed trying to rejig it this year at the time on that basis, I used a min/max weight. Without a minimum weight, the Opels would likely have marched away even more
- as Mac said, the weight did slow his car. I set the minimum weight to what Tony suggested year one, and thought "now we'll find out".
It is no coincidence all the fast drivers chose the fastest model.
I had an Opel set up that was nearly 2/10ths faster than my Alfa.
- Even before fine tuning on my track, I easily ran some test laps of 7.0s and 7.1s on Macs a few weeks ago while no one was looking, then quietly removed it.
(At the time I had it sitting about 75 grams - below legal weight, but close). On my track at 80 grams, I had it down to consistent 5.1s - very close to most guy's GT3 cars on my track.
Had the motor not smoked out for some weird reason on Thursday, I would have been running that Opel.

That would have seen the top 5 places go to Opels,
6th down would stay the same

6th  Piebones Snake-Alfa,  
7th  Scotts Opel
8th Pats Merc.
9th  Tony's Merc
10th JK's Opel
That seems less even than previous results, 7 Opels in the top 10

For interest, most Opels were JUST over 80 grams, the heaviest was 81 and change.
The Alfas,  Mercs and the 2 Nissans I weighed, were almost all sitting at 84 to 85. I don't think I saw any outside of 84 - 86.....
Of course, dropping the minimum weight requirement as Mac suggested above, would pretty much take us back to my original rules. Most people COULD run the Opel with no weight - and it would be quicker, while most found that mid 80s was optimal for the Alfas etc

So we have 3 main options to my thinking

- Just let it run, and the DTM may become mostly a single car class - at least in terms or sharp end results, but some will still choose to run what they like regardless
- Find a formula that roughly levels the models for the sake of interest, and to save some guys buying an extra car if they want a shot at podium.
- A week before the event, we lock Mac in the shed with a couple of dozen cars, and he can press the release button when he has them all set up to run 7 flat........... :):)


After having run these cars since 2018, the world isn't going to fall off it's axis whatever is done going forward, but there is just that part niggling deep inside of me that says it would look and feel good to have a good spread of all the models in the event.
 


Walks upright Unaided  *  Ties Own Shoelaces  *  Can Mispronounce Own Name In Five Languages  *  Mostly Aims Rattle Cans Away from Self
 My Track Oakland Raceway V2     Our Club  HMBRC     

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Easy answer....ban the Opels.


John Warren

Slotcars are my preferred reality

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What exactly are you looking to achieve? 

Best driver?

Best car?

Best white Slot.it DTM between 80 and 81 gm on a Saturday night under a partial moon and light rainfall?

Sounds like you're overcomplicating things and need to keep things the way they are and just have fun.

Cheers

Paul


May the downforce be with you.

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Another idea might be to drop DTM and choose a different marque....Policar F1 or Policar Ferrari 330s

 


John Warren

Slotcars are my preferred reality

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Hi Mark.

As you clearly did not like my suggestion to limit numbers of each type of car what about a 4 person team event (depending on the number of different prototypes at a given date) with each team having one of each model. To stop teams being loaded up and further even out base teams on qualifying times (genuine attempts only). Each car would be run individually but with the usual 1st, 2nd, 3rd but major competition would be teams event. I would happily put up $50 towards trophies for team event.

Regards Chas Le Breton

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I can't help but think that there's been way too much thought put into this, but how's this for a solution:

Set a maximum 90g weight limit, but if you podium with a model, you can't run that same model next year.

It's a simple rule that fixes a lot of the issues that Mark has raised. 

Edited by slotmadmac
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Podiums are for short people.

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That would be fine with me


JK

1 x Porsche 997 Constructors Cup Co-Champion

1 x Fly Classic Enduro 2013 Co-Champion

1 x F1 Classic Shootout 2016 Co-Champion

1 x Harmon Memorial Cup 2016 Co-Champion

2 x PieBone 400 Co-Champion

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As an aside, after work tonight, I set up the Merc that I won at the DTM this year. What a lovely car; thanks again for the generous sponsorship, Mark. 

QHcvToXl.jpg

It certainly looked the goods. It's wheelbase is the same as my Opel, but I managed to get the wheel track about 3mm wider, so I saw no reason for it not to be fast and stable.

Right from the get-go, this was a honey on the track and I went sub7s after only a few laps. (I thought that I better take a photo for evidence - haha)

r3msM4pl.jpg

I ran about another 100+ laps and dipped under 7s quite a few more times (with a best time time in the low 6.9s) - but I could lap this car, in my preferred red lane, in the 7.05 - 7.15 bracket all night long. 

The down side is that the higher CoG of the body makes it a bit of a handful in the tighter corners, but it was super-planted elsewhere. For those interested, I ran the body and rear of the pod loose, the front of the pod just off-tight, and used tape to dampen the pod movement. 

I think that once I get used to driving this car, and the tyres / motor come on, it will be every bit as competitive as my current Opel. Love it.   
 


Podiums are for short people.

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