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Suzuka Circuit


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#21 Paul NZ

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 02:39 PM

looking good, keep drawing! you will get the perfect line eventually. :lol:
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#22 tossedman

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 03:33 PM

Just changed the outline a bit on the inside of the hairpin here.

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Funny how a 5.8 km long track can look so short and stubby when it becomes a slot car track that has to fit in one's house. Here's a map of it from Google maps. Looks much longer doesn't it? Looking at this map again makes me think it needs some more tweaks, like squaring up the Degner curve... but that's for tomorrow, it's bed time.
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Here's the names of all the corners
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Doing some research about the track I found that it was designed by Europe's most prominent circuit designer, Dutchman John Hugenholtz in 1962. He too went through a number of variations before settling on what we now know as Suzuka (and even that has been updated a number of times, just this year in fact as the 2009 F1 stops at Suzuka again.)

Here are some initial plans.
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How Suzuka could have looked if the original plans had been developed instead.

and then
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Circuit evolution, from top:
1. 26 August 1960. First design.
2. 16 January 1961. Modified plan after an inspection tour of Europe.
3. 29 January 1961. John Hugenholtz designed plan.
4. 29 May 1961. Survey map.
5. 15 January 1962. Final design.

This information and much more can be found at eTracks: Features - Evolution of Japan's finest.

Who knew?

Todd

#23 Rob

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 04:29 PM

Its looking great Todd, keep the ideas flowing, I do like the idea of this in a 3 or 4 lane analog track too.
Regards
Rob

#24 tossedman

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 07:22 AM

In between shoveling snow from the sidewalks and chasing my three year old around the house and neighbourhood I managed to get some more time sitting in front of the computer. I first adjusted the esses a bit and narrowed the inside of the corners to come up with this, draft #6

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And then I got to thinking that I should try to maximize the amount of track I can get into the space I have and widened a couple of the corners to come up with this version. Not convinced that I like it as much as the previous one. :rolleyes: Draft #7

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Whad'ya think?

Todd

Edited by tossedman, 29 March 2009 - 10:11 AM.


#25 Paul NZ

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 08:31 AM

Just my opinion but I think you would be better with Draft #6 with a large sweeping bend, you will enjoy this more as it will make the racing smoother through this part of the track and after the hairpin you will want a bit of speed for a while. (what direction is Suzuka?, I think its anticlockwise??? :rolleyes:

Keep drawing, you are getting closer :blink:

Edited by Paul NZ, 29 March 2009 - 08:34 AM.

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#26 dangermouse

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 08:50 AM

Hi Todd

I like you overall design - not sure the last one has the right look to it
Ok I will start these questions with a cover note - I know nothing....about digital (or racing cars either :rolleyes:) I just looked at the plan and came up with some ?s With the esses will you be able to pass? If I start in the red lane and take the 1st curve in red (clockwise) - what advantage do I get changing into blue? I can see that I would change from blue to red coming into Degner - to be in red lane for the hairpin - I think you already mentioned a change from blue to red at the start of the straight - I like this idea

I wish I had seen you design before I built my track at Christmas time..

cheers
DM

#27 tossedman

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 09:51 AM

View PostPaul NZ, on Mar 29 2009, 09:40 AM, said:

Just my opinion but I think you would be better with Draft #6 with a large sweeping bend, you will enjoy this more as it will make the racing smoother through this part of the track and after the hairpin you will want a bit of speed for a while. (what direction is Suzuka?, I think its anticlockwise??? :blink:

Keep drawing, you are getting closer :P
My thoughts exactly Paul. Wasn't too sure about #7, just doesn't look right. Thought I'd see how it looks though.

Suzuka runs clockwise. I think I'm going to play with the esses and make it narrower so that the cars' tires run over the rumble strips painted on the edges.

View Postdangermouse, on Mar 29 2009, 09:59 AM, said:

Hi Todd

I like you overall design - not sure the last one has the right look to it
Ok I will start these questions with a cover note - I know nothing....about digital (or racing cars either :rolleyes:) I just looked at the plan and came up with some ?s With the esses will you be able to pass? If I start in the red lane and take the 1st curve in red (clockwise) - what advantage do I get changing into blue? I can see that I would change from blue to red coming into Degner - to be in red lane for the hairpin - I think you already mentioned a change from blue to red at the start of the straight - I like this idea

I wish I had seen your design before I built my track at Christmas time..

cheers
DM

Hey DM,

No I think the esses are going to stay as a squeeze (but nothings written in stone) so there won't be any passing there. Probably no great advantage going into the esses in either lane but it should be a bit faster for the blue lane through the first curve by cutting the corner from blue to red to blue (I think - if not then one needn't change if you don't want to). Think of the racing line idea. I still have to add another lane change on the beginning of the straight like you mentioned.

I hope that I don't see another one after this one and wish I'd made it instead. Not for a year or two anyway.

Cheers,

Todd

Edited by tossedman, 29 March 2009 - 09:55 AM.


#28 tossedman

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 08:45 AM

I recalled seeing a version of the Suzuka Circuit somewhere online and after dredging through the bookmarks I came across the Vintage Slot Racing Newsletter website. Here, Greg Holland has posted lots of copies of articles from magazines from the 1960's. It's a great resource with track plans, construction articles, lots of 3 view plans for cars and so on. Well worth a visit. Kind of like pulling that box of old magazines from garage and getting lost for an hour or two.

Anyways, there's a track plan and construction article here about making a 4 lane Suzuka layout for 1/24 or 1/32 cars. Tracing the track plan and adjusting the scale of it to fit the space I have available, we get this.
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Comparing that to the latest draft which do you think has better flow? The one from the May 1965 issue of Model Car and Track has less curves and is designed to be 4 lanes. Imagine the two outside lanes shown above as the edge of the track. It would need to have lane changers added as well. He's taken out the casio triangle but I guess I did to with the racing line lane. Any thoughts?
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Thanks in advance,

Todd

#29 kalbfellp

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 09:32 AM

IMO the esses and a little "nicer" on Greg's version. But I like the Casino triangle on your version.Maybe combine them?

Edited by kalbfellp, 30 March 2009 - 09:32 AM.


#30 knoath

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 09:37 AM

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This looks to flow really well.
I think your esses are going to create some frustration... it would be difficult to get a smooth flow through there, more like start/stop driving.

As stated by many before me, it's almost impossible to translate a full scale track to 1/32 slots! But I think you've done an excellent job so far Tossedman!
Cheers,
Dick


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#31 tossedman

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 09:43 AM

View Postkalbfellp, on Mar 30 2009, 10:41 AM, said:

IMO the esses and a little "nicer" on Greg's version. But I like the Casino triangle on your version.Maybe combine them?

View Postknoath, on Mar 30 2009, 10:46 AM, said:

This looks to flow really well.
I think your esses are going to create some frustration... it would be difficult to get a smooth flow through there, more like start/stop driving.

As stated by many before me, it's almost impossible to translate a full scale track to 1/32 slots! But I think you've done an excellent job so far Tossedman!

Phil and Dick I think you're both right. The more I look at it the more I like the esses from the Model Car and Track plan. I've edited my track plan again and adapted the MC&T esses to it. Widened them up again, took out out the squeeze (I think that being digital with the lane changes make squeezes a moot point) and made it flow a bit more through there. Might make the lack of a long straight less of an issue.

Here's draft #8:

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As usual, criticisms, thoughts and ideas are always welcome.

Todd

#32 kalbfellp

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 12:03 PM

;) :) :) B)

#33 tossedman

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 12:16 AM

OK, I think this is the final draft.
Posted Image
Now I need to find out what needs to be done to be able to have the track CNC routed using this file. I've read elsewhere that Adobe Illustrator files can be used with CNC router but I'll have to talk to someone in the know to be sure.

Thanks for the feedback as I designed the track. I'll post more when it's closer to becoming reality.

Todd

#34 Paul NZ

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 07:31 AM

View Posttossedman, on Apr 6 2009, 12:25 AM, said:

OK, I think this is the final draft.
Posted Image
Now I need to find out what needs to be done to be able to have the track CNC routed using this file. I've read elsewhere that Adobe Illustrator files can be used with CNC router but I'll have to talk to someone in the know to be sure.

Thanks for the feedback as I designed the track. I'll post more when it's closer to becoming reality.

Todd

I like this one Todd, one thing though...the hairpin, I would remove the LC's and keep it as it is with the lanes coming together and then drifting apart, I don't see that you will ever change lanes and it will save you a few $$$'s

other than that ...NICE :lol: ;) :angry:
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#35 tossedman

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 12:20 PM

Quote

I like this one Todd, one thing though...the hairpin, I would remove the LC's and keep it as it is with the lanes coming together and then drifting apart, I don't see that you will ever change lanes and it will save you a few $$$'s

other than that ...NICE :( :lol: ;)
Thanks Paul, I'm still waffling on the hairpin. I'm not happy with it as is. Don't know if it can work out with the lane change. If not it'll be a tight squeeze. Saving $$$ is always a good thing too.

More work to do on the Casio corner (chicane). Either stretch it out or change the lane changes to make it faster through there.

Cheers,

Todd

Edited by tossedman, 06 April 2009 - 12:21 PM.


#36 Paul NZ

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 01:06 PM

View Posttossedman, on Apr 6 2009, 12:29 PM, said:

Quote

I like this one Todd, one thing though...the hairpin, I would remove the LC's and keep it as it is with the lanes coming together and then drifting apart, I don't see that you will ever change lanes and it will save you a few $$$'s

other than that ...NICE :( :lol: ;)
Thanks Paul, I'm still waffling on the hairpin. I'm not happy with it as is. Don't know if it can work out with the lane change. If not it'll be a tight squeeze. Saving $$$ is always a good thing too.

More work to do on the Casio corner (chicane). Either stretch it out or change the lane changes to make it faster through there.

Cheers,

Todd

why not make the hairpin single lane and have an LC on the exit so you can choose which way to go from there???
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#37 tossedman

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 11:32 AM

View PostPaul NZ, on Apr 6 2009, 02:15 PM, said:

why not make the hairpin single lane and have an LC on the exit so you can choose which way to go from there???

Well, I've gone halfway and taken out the lane change before the hairpin. Also straightened out the Casio corner chicane to one big right hand sweeper. Added a pit lane as well. Here's draft #12. Won't say that it's the final one yet.

Posted Image

Todd

#38 Paul NZ

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 02:01 PM

Start warming up the router..... :lol:

All except the hairpin works for me.
I would still go one lane as you will go through there single file anyway, have a look at my track and you will see the 180 at the end of the track, the outer lane never gets used, I'm thinking of removing the outer lane and LC and putting the LC somewhere else.

Also adds to the anticipation of overtaking down the back straight...who will go in and who will go out???

You are making me think of doing another (Bigger) Circuit using Scorpius instead of converting my track from SSD. mmmmmm :nice:
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#39 Eno the Wonderdog

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 02:34 PM

View Posttossedman, on Apr 7 2009, 12:41 PM, said:

View PostPaul NZ, on Apr 6 2009, 02:15 PM, said:

why not make the hairpin single lane and have an LC on the exit so you can choose which way to go from there???

Well, I've gone halfway and taken out the lane change before the hairpin. Also straightened out the Casio corner chicane to one big right hand sweeper. Added a pit lane as well. Here's draft #12. Won't say that it's the final one yet.

Posted Image

Todd

I'd use the squared up (2 turn) Degener (After C) (Wider - tighter combo as you go under the bridge)

Open up R150 (or whatever it was called) (After G) It was a 'balls and all' almost flat out corner

Tighten up the turn after H onto the front straight as it was always tighter than R150 - far better than the poxy chicane

I love the ideas there though - looks a million bucks.
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#40 tossedman

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Posted 11 April 2009 - 03:15 AM

So, I've straightened out the curves between the two straights a bit to try to speed things up through there and make up for the lack of a long straight. Should allow for some high speeds I think. Also shortened the pit lane and reduced the hairpin to one lane. How's that for a squeeze?

Let me know what you think.

Posted Image

Todd

Edited by tossedman, 11 April 2009 - 04:01 AM.






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