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ozquad44

Magnetic Paint, Gloss Finish, Or Matt Finish

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What track surface would people recommend using on a routed track for home use?

 

I posed this question in a ferrodor removal thread and thought it best to give the question its own wings and to stop hijacking the other thread. This is a general overview what people have posted thus far

 

Gloss two pack paint - seems to be the preferred option, without argument, in NZ,

 

Ferrodor - seems to be the accepted norm here but current wisdom suggests that this is no longer the way to go,

 

Semi gloss acrylic - some have had success with this, and

 

Magnetic paint - basically untested here in OZ, some overseas enthusiasts who have tried it rave about it. Others suggest it is a waste of time.

 

What are peoples thoughts on the matter?

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Just to get the ball rolling I though I would also add some background of my situation, I want to build a routed track.

 

As a trial run I just finished a 2 metre routed extension and connected it to my existing plastic scaley track which takes me up to about 12 metres of track. I used 9 mm MDF sheet, copper tape, and a generic MDF primer as the track surface.

 

I'm really happy with the outcome, I am really enjoying the new "drift" section of my track. Its lots of fun, but going from magnitised plastic track to non magnatised wood with RTR cars is a bit much for the rest of the family.

 

I want to improve traction on the routed section of my track. But as I'm a novice, and my time is limited, I don't want to "tune" all of my cars. The obvious choice is magna braid, but that is not cheap. I've been doing a bit of research and came up with a few cost comparisons which I though was interesting. Based on a two lane, 12 metre track I estimated the cost, rounded up to the nearest ten, for three different track surfaces:

 

1. Paint $50, Magna braid $170, and adhesive tape $30, result = a magnetic track surface for around $250,

 

2. Paint $50, Copper tape $40, result = a non magnetic track surface for around $90, and

 

3. Magnetic paint and sealer $100, copper tape $40, result = a "semi" magnetic track surface for around $140.

 

I'm leaning towards the magnetic paint (I acknowledge the paint itself is not magnetic, just laced with ferrous material so a magnet can stick to it) at this point in time. would any one like to comment on what surface they are using and how they are finding it.

Edited by ozquad44

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Gidday there.

A couple of things

 

You missed the most common option; tinned copper braid, ferrodore paint (or an acrylic for smooth surface)

Copper tape will always have maintenance issues, but tinned copper braid is bog stable, and a lot cheaper than magnabraid.

I think if you research some more that magnetic paint contains so little ferrous material, that the downforce is barely worth mentioning. You'd gain more grip from decent tyre trueing and correct compound for your choice of track surface.

 

You have to set cars up right to get the most out of them on wood, which will mean some trueing and a tyre change, and in some cases, replacing badly off-centre rear assemblies with say Slot.it rear end kits - eg http://www.armchairracer.com.au/v12/axlestartup.htm or any of the good slotshop forum sponsors :)

 

"2 pack gloss" is not the standard over here in NZ. We have ONE guy with a magnificent track which is a 2 pack, but that is probably the only one in the country. He had the track "shop built" - ie CNC routed, furnniture shop for the painting etc, - then finished off the braiding with friends.

 

Around our club, http://www.burmac.co.nz/hbmrc/index.html which is the most concentrated patch of home routed tracks in NZ, we have:

 

1 acrylic, sanded, no top cover

1 acrylic, not sanded - or is it enamel, can't remember, we haven't had a race day there yet, only been over to wire it for the guy.

3 acrylic, sanded, then a "clear coat" applied as a semi-gloss to gloss finish

1 enamel - high gloss

1 elderly ex club track, which I THINK was an emamel surface, but that guy isn't racing much at present, and I can't remember.

1 '2 pack' ultra-super-extra-shiny-high-gloss :)

 

and at club we have an older 2 lane routed "test track" which I think is enamel - munter could tell you, he built it.

What they all have in common is that they are "smooth surface" tracks.

All provide best grip with silicon tyres as you might expect. Surprisingly, I think the new enamel track (munter) has the best grip of any for urethanes, not far behind silicon.

In all cases, urethanes "work", generally better than any stock tyres on cars. sCX, Revell and Carrera tyres don't work on any of them.... I call those "the plastic tyres" Scalextric generally have enough grip to be usable, as do Ninco stock tyres, but less than urethane.

 

Using urethane as the "grip benchmark", and having run on Davnics old track at Enos, on Knoaths old track, and at Davnic brother Shane's track, all of which are ferrodore, I feel we get similar grip levels out of urethane tyres and gloss, as you do with ferrodore. Benchmark laptime for a medium size track of about 3 metres a second, ie 6 seconds for a 60 foot/18 metre track.

 

If I built again, having seen munter's enamel paint finish, I'd probably use enamel next time, but failing that, stick to the clearcoat over acrylic paint, as these acrylic floor clears are pretty durable, and provide a smooth surface that doesn't damage cars, or wear out tyres. I could have done my own surface better, and am due to give it all a light sand and another coat........

 

Others can give pros and cons, but in terms of your limited experience so far, you probably need to consider better controllers, consistent tyres, and maybe a variable, or voltage switchable power supply in time.

Edited by SlotsNZ

Walks upright Unaided  *  Ties Own Shoelaces  *  Can Mispronounce Own Name In Five Languages  *  Mostly Aims Rattle Cans Away from Self
 My Track Oakland Raceway V2     Our Club  HMBRC     

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If I built again, having seen munter's enamel paint finish, I'd probably use enamel next time, but failing that, stick to the clearcoat over acrylic paint, as these acrylic floor clears are pretty durable, and provide a smooth surface that doesn't damage cars, or wear out tyres.

 

I think SlotNz hit the nail on the head for me, Ferrodore whilst looking like a real road surface is very abrasive. I used a high density foam roller which provided a nice uniform finish across the track, perhaps I should of used to a brush to lay in in the flow of the track.

 

Im certainly contemplating repainting my track this year some time, perhaps even clear coat over the top of the existing ferrodore to reduce the abrasive nature of the paint.


Regards

Rob

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On the magnetic paint issue, I contacted the manufacturers, Resene in Brisbane, with details of what we're trying to do and their response was simply to refer me to a dealer in Sydney, I repeated the details to the guy at the shop an he offered me 10 per cent discount on the standard one litre can, bringing the cost from $57.90 per litre to $52 per litre. Likewise, he didn't seem all that interested in what I was trying to do. Overall, the company didn't seem at all interested in finding out if their stuff works for our application so, for the moment, I'm not all that interested in investing the time, money and hassle of finding out for myself.

 

If you really want wood, I'd stick with the cheapest option, that is acrylic paint with paving paint "sprinkles: and copper tape and, since you have solved the wood-to-plastic issue, use plastic for the tricky bits and wood for the straights and sweeping turns.

 

Personally, I'd suggest investing in a heap of set track and inner and outer borders for all the curves. Borders are relatively expensive but, once you've bought 'em, you've got a versatile track system for life.

Edited by chilla

Cheers,

Charles

 

"all I want for my birthdy is another birthdy" Ian Dury...bless 'im.

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I have had some success with a matt enamel finish on my track but MJK tires or similar are a must, std tires just sit and spin.

 

I think you will find that Ferrodor is a VIC thing, not too many in Qld and NSW.

 

I'm waiting for OTFS to comment as he is an expert in this feild, he advised me to use ferrodor with cabots clear to calm it down and he says that it has the best road look with great grip and is ok on the cars if they roll.

 

I am looking for a bit more traction though so I'll be watching this thread closely.

I'm still getting the track ready so havn't made up my mind, maybe this thread will help me.

 

One thing on the magnetic paint is the car will have a downward pull everywhere on the track except over the copper tape or braid unless you use magnabraid, this is totally opposite to a plastic track so not sure how the cars would behave on this???


Paul NZ - Scale with Detail!

 

Narangba Club Local

 

Gold Coast Raceway 09

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I have used magnetic paint for my grand daughters wall! IMO it would be a waste of time on a track,it just does not have enought magnetic pull for a track,all the bottom of the chassis would have to be a magnet.

My track is Ferrodore with satin clear over it, close to but not as much grip as the other tracks with Satin or low gloss enamel. Gloss two pack is O/K BUT the track we raced on with it would change during racing,loose grip. It nees to be ultra clear and dust at all and the grip drops off.

IMO I would go the satin or low gloss enamel.

BUT what ever you use it will need some running to get good grip.


Phil

 

Hobart Miniature Car Club

 

Tassie Resins

 

Email

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Hmm,...Resene Paints,....

 

Architecturally, They Do have some very interesting and Original Techniques and finishes.

 

As the Paint as such is NOT made from a Magnetically Oriented material (It contains Iron Oxides), it would Not provide any attraction as such itself.

 

One would Have to assume, that a Fairly THICK Coating of Paint (IRON Oxide), would have to be applied, for the actual Magnetic attraction from the cars Magnets, to be 'Appreciated'.

To That end, one would Imagine it could become Very Expensive !!

 

One would seriously have to Question whether it would actually Provide an appreciable effect, compared to the relative Density of the Metal in MagnaBraid, compared to a Few 'Waffer Thin' coatings of Iron Oxide!!??

 

I believe they Had/Have a Showroom in Willoughby Road in Sydney, which from recollection, was Very Trendy, with Many sample Boards littered about the place.

Perhaps a visit to one of the stores, with Car in Hand, would answer the question once and for all,..without expense !!,..:)

 

See what sort of 'Angle' you can get before Displacement, or whether you can Invert the board etc.

 

The 'Decorative' Magnets,.."Stick", because they ARE Touching the surface and Are Extremely Lightweight Plastice/Fabrics.

Whereas the Slot Car has the Magnet at best quite a few MM Above the surface.

 

The Quantity and cross sectional area of Oxide would Have to be able to allow Great enough coercive 'Attraction', which I think would either be Very Expensive, or effectively unmeasurable.

:)

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Tipping you would need too think of sheet to make it worth it, someone with more knowledge could educate, but could affix something to the under side of the track that is magnetic.

 

Or route a groove on the under side and place some of the thin magnets in it...

Edited by gzminiz

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Just thought I would join this debate as I have Ferrodor with a clear coat over it. I have been reasonably happy until I open a few cars and they are covered in black rubber. So, following advice from Tvwino and Rob I sanded down three corners of my track to a nice smooth finish. Wiped the track clean with Shellite and run a few laps. The grip is the same, the track is nice and smooth, and I put the silicon tyres that come spare with the Slot.itÅ› and they were just as good as the the rubbers. I will sand the rest of the track down over the weekend.

 

There is the this pinkish colour which comes through after sanding the ferrodor but this disappeared after I cleaned the track. Also, the cars have a much better slide now and dont just break grip half way through a curve. It is definitely a great improvement on the drivability, tyre wear (hopefully) and less damage to the cars.

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Good to have this discussion now as the time draws close for me to have to chose a surface for my track.

 

I dont want to use ferrodore paint due to the abrasion so I am looking for another surface that will provide a good grip that still provides a reasonably realistic looking bitumen road surface.

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Just make the track out of mild steel plate. Think outside the square, WHY does it have to be made out of wood?

 

Hat coat Im outa here.


cheers

rick1776

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Just make the track out of mild steel plate. Think outside the square, WHY does it have to be made out of wood?

 

Hat coat Im outa here.

 

I guess if you are going to cnc something why not. So going to get a steel cnc bit for the router and do this. Might be a bit harder to lift it to the ceiling though. hehe

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You could permanatly locate the track on the ceiling if the mag attraction was high enough. Of course deslots could prove costly as the car would fall 8-12 feet. Ouch.

A good marshal would be one that could catch your car before it hit the floor.


cheers

rick1776

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You could permanatly locate the track on the ceiling if the mag attraction was high enough. Of course deslots could prove costly as the car would fall 8-12 feet. Ouch.

A good marshal would be one that could catch your car before it hit the floor.

 

 

hum, could also use the frame that flips from the other thread and race on both sides of it at the same time. upside down racing!

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I am in the states, one of those annoying yank tourists.

 

My track is painted with Plasti Dip. This is a rubber coating sold for putting rubber handles on tools and such nonsense. As far as I know, mine is the second track done this way. Most tracks here are done with latex.

 

I did the same thing you are doing, asked around and then made up my mind.

 

No magnets for me please, copper tape has worked great.

 

I found most folks struggling with traction and keeping tires clean on latex. Others would say after enough rubber is layed down, it gets good.

 

My racing buddy is my 5 year old and I was concerned how he would do nonmag, even though I hated magnet racing. So I wanted good grip.

 

My routed track drives so good and so predictable, my son does better on it than mag racing !

 

I learned of Plasti Dip, from the originator, Myron in Oklahoma. I liked how he thought and decided to go with it. I love it !!!!

 

I know a guy in Spain who is using what I believe to be a similar material, it is called "Clorobarp". I believe it is a rubber roof coating.

 

Plasti dip has great initial grip, races absolutely clean, looks realistic ( I splash mixed white and black to obtain grey ) and it wears tremendously and is EASY on your cars when they land on their lids.

 

I have had several guest racers and they all rave about the surface. I have only raced on one other routed track, it had a fairly abrasive surface that did produce good grip. The owner of that track had repainted several times because the initial latex was too slick and too dirty. He arrived at a track surface he liked, but it took a while.

 

No, it doesnt feel rubbery, no dirt doesnt stick to it like it's dried honey. If you felt it, you would think it is paint. I have heard all these rumors from folks who have never seen it or raced on it. It's fantastic.

 

I dont know what the equivalent is in Oz and NZ or if it exists at all.

 

none of my cars have weight added, most run urethanes I make myself.

 

Test drives are free, just give me a heads up if you are coming !

 

John

Pretzel City Speedway

Freeport IL USA

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John

 

Have you got a close up view oh your track surface?

 

Sounds interesting as most of my race time will be with my kids

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John

 

Have you got a close up view oh your track surface?

 

Sounds interesting as most of my race time will be with my kids

 

Will go down and take a photo once I get home from work.

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I have made 2 tracks - the first was painted with a flat acrylic paint - I was unhappy with the sliding of cars with stock tyres on them so investigated and started making my own tyres out of urethane. Best thing I ever did - made some dogs drivable and made the bearable cars fantastic. Because it was a test track I then painted the surface with gloss paint (acrylic enamel) was happy with the grip level so when I made my new track I painted it with gloss enamel as well. Still pretty happy with the grip but that is with urethane or silicone tyres.

 

I used copper tape - but can see myself investing the money in some tinned copper braid (and maybe magnabraid on the tunrs- if any one has got a few of metres of magnabraid for sale let me know as I want to build a small loop to try it out. eg make an oval and tape it with copper and then a similar oval with magnabraid to test the difference. - but it seems it is only for sale in 60m rolls)

 

My main reason for thinking about braid is I have already spent a bit of time soldering repairs on the copper tape - and have found the cars can rip the tape sometimes.

 

I would recommend looking at tyres first as this really improves the grip level - I posted some videos in another thread comparing stock tyres with homemade urethane ones.

 

I have read some threads from OS forums where they used magnetic paint - however I am unsure it would be worth the effort. I also read a thread where I guy laid beaten tin metal all around his track... I have thought about how wire would go - place it in a groove under the copper tape.

 

Also wouldn't coating the ferrador with clear coat make it a similar surface to semi gloss paint anyway??

cheers

DM

Edited by dangermouse

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Ozquad, I have a 28m, 2 lane Carrera track with a mix of tight turns, long straights and a curved up-hill section leading onto the overpass....I wanted to go non-mag as there just didn't seem to be the input required running magnetized cars....kinda like having them on cruise control....they were either on the track or off it....

Problem is, without magnets, I couldn't even get a car to go up the incline, it just came to a stop spinning the tyres and they would fishtail and de-slot coming onto the straights.

After a lot of research, I decided to go with a gloss/clear coat paint job and use silicon tyres....trouble was, I was I ended up spending hours trying to keep the surface free of dust rather than racing cars....just the slightest amount of dust and grip would disappear altogether.

I was seriously at the point of packing the whole thing away and turning the space over to my 1:1 car......the track was in the garage which doubles as my workshop....

I ended up spraying the track with a fine texture paint and the grip is awesome.....you can actually control the slides, get good acceleration onto the straights with a bit of wiggle and still hit decent speeds down the straights.

Grip is consistant and it only takes a quick run over with the vacuum before you start.

My suggestion, rather than try to magnetize the routed section is to give the entire track a coat of fine texture and run the cars without magnets....that will get rid of the "transition" problem.

I have never seen the ferradore finish...(hope to do so when I visit Oz next month)....so I don't know how coarse it is....

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My MDF track has been running now for about 4 weeks,I painted the track surface with flat enamel,I've also used magnabraid.

 

Although I prefer non mag racing I also knew that most of our group come from a scaley background and that meant that they would prefer mag racing,so I had no problen in justifying the extra costs.

 

I'm very happy with the grip,MJK's seem to work the best,but with mag cars stock tyres seem to go just fine,my scratch builts have a variety of tyres fitted,but the MJK's and NSR work good.although the NSR's chop out a bit.

 

It was a difficult decision to come to because of so many different opinions,I didn't want to run ferrador because of the damage to cars and a gloss surface did not appeal.

 

Terry

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Plasti Dip is avaliable in Oz, see here Plastidip.

 

It's pretty exy though, I was quoted $263 for 3.78 a litre can, $39 for a 429 ml can and $33 for a 312 gram spray can.

 

A bit expensive to use as the main colour coats but I might invest in a spray can of clear and give it a go.

Edited by chilla

Cheers,

Charles

 

"all I want for my birthdy is another birthdy" Ian Dury...bless 'im.

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