Greedy Mr Skaife & Mr Tander

[Ray S]

I had a look at the MJK EH? Holden kit (light weight body steel chassis) on Wednesday night perhaps they could do the current Holden and Falcons? They would be a great deal better than the scaleys.

 

I am not a Holden fan so the fact that Fords reigns supreme in out V8 classes suits me fine. It is also about time that Toyota got into the mix (please don’t throw rocks). I think that it will only be a matter of time before both GM and Ford will go down the tube or at least be minor players as they are both building the wrong type of cars and a dropping sales at an alarming rate (pity).

 

I personally enjoyed the Godzilla era where the technology ruled.

 

Ray

[kalbfellp]

Godzilla era where the technology ruled

 

 

Phil

[rick1776]

OK talked to a friend of mine that has lots of experience in tool making and injection moulding. About 12K for a mould in cheap tool steel. So were looking at 24K for a shell and chassis much like the Scaly V8 supercars. If you want finer detail and interiors its really gonna add up as the number of dies is gonna be quite high.

 

My mate can also put me onto some injection moulders overseas.

 

The other sticking point is the cigarette advertising on a lot of the 70s touring cars. Rang up the department of health, Im allowed to put it on the car as long as I dont derive a profit from it. ie I would need to give the cars away for free. Hmmm out of pocket quite a few thousand dollars if I did that.

 

Still need to tackle the royalties issue.

 

Talk to me Phil, ya reckon your mate can make up some dies for a few thousand??

 

Cheers

rick1776

[Rob]

Probably one of the hardest issues you face is obtaining the CAD data for the proposed models. I assume you want it to be correct to scale, exacting detail. Pretty difficult if the cars are pre CAD era such as a A9X or a XC falcon. You obviously could reverse engineer a die cast model into the CAD world via scanning technology or start modelling from scratch. As for tackling the liveries rather than pay royalties or deal with the health department you possibly should consider just make white cars and allow the enthusiast paint his own.

 

As for the dies, if you only plan to make a few say 1500, I wouldn't even bother with toolsteel just cut them from mild steel. Once the production run is done just destroy the tool so the moulder doesnt run a few thousand for himself ensuring they are truely a limited edition car.

[PhilR]

I have a patent lawyer business associate. I'll ask about trademarks ownership of brand etc. If we produce lets say the Brock 78/79 A9X and the Moffat XC77 what are the legal requirements? What royalties are we up for etc. That could end up being a big sticking

 

Good stuff Rick and probably job no1.

I favour the unliveried idea also..

Just got back from Winton and I'm flat out!!

I will get onto the injection moulding research asap..

Just knowing the ins and outs and costs of licensing a car that is marketed as a Holden or a Ford is

The first thing to find out..liveries next..

When I was at Winton people kept asking me "can you get the utes?"

If you were there to see the racing it would be easy to understand why..

I know everybody here has an opinion..and they are based on personal preferences from the view of a slotcar enthusiast..

But for everyone of you guys that is into slots..there is probably a few thousand who are just into race cars..and what's going on in Australian racing today..and may soon find thier way into slots,with what is evetuating with new digital technology..It has features that are leaving the uninitiated absolutely gobsmacked!! Several hundred people checked out my setup at Winton..I spoke to a lot of people..But only a few who are presently into slots..Got lots of inquiries about the cost of setting up something similar at home

So while this is already becoming a team effort..it cant really remain one for long as it would be doomed to failure from the beginning..nothing organized by a volunteer comittee ever seems to go well..

I'm looking at this from my own perspective as a buisness proposition first...And as a desire to see a wider choice of Aussie slotcars second..

If I can find a way to do it I will..and I will come up with all the investment capital myself...

If I cant ,I wish the best of success to anyone else who can..and I will become a customer..

It's not that I'm trying to pour cold water on any ideas..its just that already people are saying " if we just put in so many $$$ each..and we just make these 2 models etc etc"

That will quickly lead to dissagreements and squabbles..It needs to a venture taken on by a private entity with the goal of making a profit..or it has a very slim chance of ever eventuating..

That said..From my point of view it would be silly not to consut the slotcar community

very closely before making anything..

Phil

[lavenlaar]

The other sticking point is the cigarette advertising on a lot of the 70s touring cars. Rang up the department of health, Im allowed to put it on the car as long as I dont derive a profit from it. ie I would need to give the cars away for free. Hmmm out of pocket quite a few thousand dollars if I did that.

 

what about ebay under a different username? You gave the cars away for free then somebody in the public is profiting :starwars:

[blue95]

I'd be happy with 10 unpainted, unassembled Toranas for the same money.

[smallnails]

If they were to scale the a9x would be great...............Bmrs torana and imkouwels was ok but a bit large!

[Vinno]

The other sticking point is the cigarette advertising on a lot of the 70s touring cars. Rang up the department of health, Im allowed to put it on the car as long as I dont derive a profit from it. ie I would need to give the cars away for free. Hmmm out of pocket quite a few thousand dollars if I did that.

 

what about ebay under a different username? You gave the cars away for free then somebody in the public is profiting

 

 

Or you sell non decaled cars for whatever and give away the decals with the car. Either that or the profit is in the car and the decals are cost price.

[Cleveland]

rick1776

 

With over 1328 views & 58 replies all within a single week......... I think its safe to say that this project is something else. I hope it all comes to plan as your got my pre-orders.

 

Clevo

[gazza]

http://www.auslot.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3712

[bandit]

Wish you all the best,you sound like a bloke that gets things done when he puts his mind too it.I'd be in to buy some cars off you,a9x,xu1,vk commy etc.

good luck col.

[slots]

If you want to beat the health department on the cigarette advertising, do what Slot.it did and use removable stickers. Then it is up to the buyer to cope with the department of health.

[rick1776]

Had a talk with the patent lawyer. Strictly speaking a name or a number is not a a trademark per' say. However Peter Brock has quite a few images containing his name and the 05 number and they have been trademark registered. As my friend has said its a very grey area and grey areas always involve litigation. If thats the case whoever has the most money to burn usually wins. Also strictly speaking every sponsor on the car in question needs to be contacted and permission sought. He said, are you willing to make the car without seeking permission from every concerned party? If any one objects and issues an injunction youre as good as dead unless you want to go to court. As much as Id like to see an X9X or Cobra built Im not about to be out of pocket 10s of thousands.

 

Ok having said that I'll start the ball rolling and contact the Brock Foundation via their executor and see what happens.

 

cheers

rick1776

[neophytte]

Also strictly speaking every sponsor on the car in question needs to be contacted and permission sought. He said, are you willing to make the car without seeking permission from every concerned party? If any one objects and issues an injunction youre as good as dead unless you want to go to court. As much as Id like to see an X9X or Cobra built Im not about to be out of pocket 10s of thousands.

 

Rick,

 

Out of curiousity, how do people like Patto's place (and the million of other small time decal producers) get away with producing and selling replica decals? Perhaps another person to call and see their views?

 

Cheers

 

Richard

[kalbfellp]

The brock car would be tjhe last on the list IMO just too many problems with all involved. GM are a problem and the Brock Foundation has its own problems.

 

Ninco could not resolve the licencing on the Opel !

 

Phil

[hoffy]

Also strictly speaking every sponsor on the car in question needs to be contacted and permission sought. He said, are you willing to make the car without seeking permission from every concerned party? If any one objects and issues an injunction youre as good as dead unless you want to go to court. As much as Id like to see an X9X or Cobra built Im not about to be out of pocket 10s of thousands.

 

Rick,

 

Out of curiousity, how do people like Patto's place (and the million of other small time decal producers) get away with producing and selling replica decals? Perhaps another person to call and see their views?

 

Cheers

 

Richard

 

How do they get away with it? Dodging a bullet springs to mind. All it takes is one party to take exception & Patto would be out of business quick smart.

 

I had a photographer on my forum who was selling images from V8 events that he had taken, had gotten printed & signed (He had done all the work thus far) on ebay. He wa approached by the AVESCO (or what ever they are called now) & told to cease & desist or expect to be hearing from their lawyers.

 

Yes, you might get away with it, but dont think that it doesn't happen

[rick1776]

Spot on Hoffy. Basically people like Patto are flying underneath the radar of most big corporations. They might not know about it or they might know about it and take the attitude that its not worth hassling some small one man outfit for the sake of a few hundred dollars in sales per year. In cases like that it is only when their product or brand name is associated with some negative product that they take action. eg. For instance lets say someone wanted to make a line of marital aid products and wanted to call their top of the range product the Brock 05 vibratron. The Brock Foundation might take exception to their name being linked with such a product and most likely they would be getting a call from Brock's lawyers real fast. Game set match.

 

Phil,

 

If Holden are a problem then all the Torrana models will be a problem. Personally I think there is not that big a market out there for circa 70s touring car slot cars. Basically you have to be in your 40s or at least late 30s, into slot cars and into motor sport. Im thinking there is maybe a total sales of 500 units out there. Think about it, Southern make 1500 unit runs for V8 supercars and how often do you see a less popular model reduced to $35 just to get rid of it. If the Brock car doesnt stack up financially I cant see how some unknown Torrana driver is going to sell 500 units. I mean how many Torrana enthusiats would want the Graham Ryan/Philip Arnull A9X from '78???? At a guess Id say somewhere between 0 and 1. Recouping my 24K for the dies might become difficult.

 

cheers

rick1776

[Cleveland]

rick1776

 

Are you considering the four door Torana?

 

Even being a die hard ford fan, the Torana was a very memorable car for me. With the greatest pairing ever at Bathurst with two of the world's most famous drivers appeared in a Torana.................. And Im not talking about the Brock/Moffat entry.

 

Sir Jack Brabham & Sir Sterling Moss.......What I'd give for a model of that car (Please consider this livery)

 

With the vehicles sponsored by cigatette companies, would it be possible to do what fly did with the Hollwood March F1. Just include the stickers under the box. It seems like neally everyone had some sort of cigarette sponsors on their cars in the late 70's

[PhilR]

That's right Rick..

while i too would love to see those classic touring cars of the 70's available for us to buy..a solid buisness plan would have to be adopted first..

What i am constantly asked for as a slot car dealer is the utes and this or that of the current v8's..These requests are from people who are new to slotracing and couldnt really give a toss about a9x torana's,but can tell you who is currently in the top 10 in this years V8series

My main objective is to fully cost and examine the process of making the injection mould for the current Ford and holden V8 supercars..Next is to determine the cost of licensing the Holden and the Ford name..After that would come liveries.

Then I will need to examine and research Tampo printing..After that..sourcing components..ie.. tyres wheels guide blades motors etc etc..

Sounds like a lot and it is,but it can be done!

It is going to take me a long time..but I intend to have a go..I hope someone else has a go too..More chance of sucess that way..

One thing I am doing at the moment..and will continue to do is inform every single person who asks me if I can get this or that V8 supercar or V8 ute... That the reason is chiefly down to greed on the part of those who hold the property rights over thier favourite race cars..

The big companies milk the race fans every way that they can with thier merchandising..But they had best be aware that there can be a groundswell of fan resentment over thier unbridled greed..

Just gonna do the best I can and follow it through as far as I can..

Phil

[PhilR]

Oh yeah...While I was at winton i went into the diecast model display tent..

People were forking over hundres of dollars for model cars that cant do anything but sit on a shelf and be looked at..

Slotcars are meant to be raced..and I believe that is just exacly what new people to this hobby want to do with them..

I crack up when I read how guys here dont like the aussie V8's because they dont have an interior..

In my shop..every time i sell a car with an interior..the first thing the customer does is take it out!! Thats because they have worked out for themselves that lighter is faster..See they just wanna race them..not look at them..

Lost track of how many blokes asked me if I could make a setup like my mobile track for sale and what it would cost..

Seems a shame to be able to run 8 cars on 2 lanes..yet the race fan cant go down to the shop and buy 8 different liveries of v8 slotcars any ol time he chooses..or more importantly..any of the current crop in the series..

every one of them should be available in appropriate numbers..every year..

One of the biggest problems I have selling cars in my shop,is that no one wants to have the same car as the next guy! Its that simple!

Whats the point in manufacturing 1500 of the same livery in a year?

Better to make less of more liveries! Provide more choice. That's the reason why yo see so many still sitting on the shelf!

Obviously the reason its not happening is due to the royalty cost..I doubt that the artwork/tampo cost is anywhere near as big a factor as that..

They want too much money..They need to be made aware that they could potentially lose more from being mean than the could ever gain through thier greed.

Phil

[triggy]

Good onya Phil, I like your attitude. All the best , because if it comes off ,I will be buying your products (so long as the quality at least matches scaley)

[bandit]

Here here.

colin

[GlovemanP510]

Hey Phil you never mentioned if the big boys from holden were brave enough to come and try your track at winton?

[rick1776]

Cleveland,

 

Yes the four door is an option as it would go on the same chassis as the A9X. My first one would be the 76 Bob Morris car although the Brabham/Moss car might have international appeal....

 

OK just got an email as I was typing. Not the news I was hoping for. Biante is the sole licensee for any Brock associated car. Game set match for any Brock cars unless Biante are very kind and allow me to make it.

 

Wrt cigarette laws I think Fly and Slotit are cutting it very fine indeed. Tobacco Products Act of 1997 Section 40(2) A person must not sell any object that contains a tobacco advertisment.

 

Including a decal under the box or covering the ad with another sticker....Hmmm the working states...not sell any object that CONTAINS a tobacco advertisement. Basically I think they are flying under the radar and if someone challenged them....

 

cheer

rick1776