rick1776 Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 Word has it that the delays for the Holden V8 is all about the amount of royalties they wanted. Up to a third of the cost of the scaly car may be royalties. Makes it hard to make a buck out of a $55 dollar product. Word also has it that Stone Brothers didnt want any royalties. cheers rick1776 Quote cheers rick1776 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manimmal Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 yeah i don't quite get why we pay them to advertise their product. is this not the same reason last years scaley nascars where withdrawn? Quote My mum says I'm an excellent driver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalbfellp Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 This has been the same for years with HRT models. RC diecast and slots all have to bear the brunt of the HRT marketing guys. Walkinshaw has to get his money back some how! Phil Quote Phil https://www.hobartminiaturecarclub.com/ Email Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aastes Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 Word has it that the delays for the Holden V8 is all about the amount of royalties they wanted. Up to a third of the cost of the scaly car may be royalties. Makes it hard to make a buck out of a $55 dollar product. Word also has it that Stone Brothers didnt want any royalties. cheers rick1776 You are correct my man - that has always been a sticking point and i for one would not pay the $$$$ at all - be it for a Ford or Holden. (As an aside the name Cooper was dropped fom Minis when the accountants found out John Cooper was getting the eqv. of $16 per car when Leyland/BMC were only making $8 per car so its nothing new) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davnic74 Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 (edited) But they are released! They are in the box sets... Edited July 28, 2008 by Davnic74 Quote Regard's David Team Phoenix 4 x Australian National Champion. Premier Raceway Build Gallery Raceway Build. Heany Park Raceway Build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilR Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 Well.I thought that might be the case!! I'm gonna invite them to come race digital slot cars on sat Night over in the camping area at winton on this.. If I am sucessful in getting them to come.. ( fat chance!!) I will tell them that they will have to race Fords,because Holdens arent available,that of the 18 liveried Aussie V8's produced so far by Scalextric only 6 are Holdens..and none have actually been available for over 18 months and that the reason why is that the Holden teams want unreasonable amounts of money in royalties.. That the Ford slotcars are great advertising for Ford backed teams and thier own team sponsors... That there is a great resentment in the slotcar community against Holden..they are becoming known more for thier greed than for anything else.. Yeah ..right now I'm really over it..Given that I own a slotcar shop..and my passion for digital slotcar racing.. I'm about ready to jump ship and vow never to buy a Holden 1/1 car again!! (I'm a Holden man) A couple of years ago I dropped $35,000 for a new Holden Ute with my local dealer..the second one that I had bought from him..and I asked if he might give me a Holden flag to put up in my slot car shop. He gave me a very long winded lecture about how much trouble he would get in if Holden ever found out he gave me a flag to put up in my slotcar shop...and then..reluctantly gave me one.. He made me vow to never let on where I got it from..Where I to be challenged by anyone from Holden as to it's origins..I am to say I stole it or something!! As He would be in huge trouble from Holden..And this guys father started the dealership in Holdens very first days! It's just ridiculous!! Frankly...I'd rather invite some holden management over to the slot racing so I can corner them and give them a piece of my mind! Any aggressive defence of thier policies or smart arse remarks would of course be countered with a very swift smack in the mouth!! We are country boys...most of us Holden fans...slotcar addicts..and very very unhappy about this delayed release bizzo.. No doubt..It'll be just me and a few mates racing on Sat night..plenty of beer and plenty of fun!! Just had an idea!! I might erect a protest placard pointing out why Holden slotcars are unavailable..I will for sure put one inside the marquis where the track will be!! Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue95 Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 They should tell them to stick it, I'm sure there's plenty of other Holden teams out there wanting to get a bit of free advertising for their sponsors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davnic74 Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 They should tell them to stick it, I'm sure there's plenty of other Holden teams out there wanting to get a bit of free advertising for their sponsors. Yep i vote for the Garry Rogers Valvoline Cummins car, and the super cheap car.. Quote Regard's David Team Phoenix 4 x Australian National Champion. Premier Raceway Build Gallery Raceway Build. Heany Park Raceway Build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue95 Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 I would be more likely to buy them 2 than the ones being released. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davnic74 Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 I would be more likely to buy them 2 than the ones being released. Yeah but no tool oh sorry i mean Morris on the door, would have to be Ingall.. but that will never happen.. Quote Regard's David Team Phoenix 4 x Australian National Champion. Premier Raceway Build Gallery Raceway Build. Heany Park Raceway Build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldslot Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 I would love to know how much it has cost them to buy the c/ship the last 2 years ????? perhaps they are trying to recoup some of that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bandit Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 Iagree about making different liveries for the holdens,Garry Rogers cars look superb andi'd be happy with a todd kelly jdr car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knoath Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 Yep i vote for the Garry Rogers Valvoline Cummins car I'm with you dave... if they aren't released, I'll have to do a repaint! They look great! Quote Cheers, Dick SCMR build thread Woodbrook Valley build thread "A Man's home is his castle, but his garage is his sanctuary!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gref Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 i'd be happy with a todd kelly jdr car. won't happen sadly, just like the jim beam cars - can't have alcohol signage on a "toy" car aimed at children's market...but Fly can get away with it - even cigarette sponsors Quote 2 x australian ego champion regards Shane Fulel racing in first track build --> https://youtu.be/nG1EyFkbJSs My second track build --> raceday - https://youtu.be/8WXYQ528iKM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlovemanP510 Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 (edited) Its certainly an interesting concern re the relaese and most of you have hit the nail on the head. I am an avid Jim Richards fan and since Skaife was racing with him in the godzilla days i have also followed him as well. So in the V8's the red lion is my badge of choice (ill take a nissan/datsun in preference or a Richo 911) but i must admit i have found it incredibly frustrating that in the entire time i have been into this hobby (christmas 2007) I have been unable to buy a holden off the shelf. My 6 year old son is still desperately waiting to buy his own slot car with the pocket money he has been saving and really wants it to be a skaife car although at some point we may have to switch over to FPR richo jnr at least they look really good and is related and soon we will probably be able to buy both cars from the team. surely someone reading this forum has a contact with holden, skaifey or tander and can quietly suggest to them that for the sake of a few thousand bucks worth of unearned profit from toy cars it may be costing them a fortune long term in new car sales and merchandise sales as individuals jump ship and start following a differnet flag because of the frustration. Or worse still start to support a different driver and be lost to them as fans - my son is spending an awful lot of time now pretending to be frosty or whincup overtaking skaifey which wasnt the case 12 months ago do the math 1500 cars - even if they are demanding 20 bucks a car (which seems totally unrealistic for southern models) then 30 grand just isnt worth the bad blood it is generating. I really hope you get skaife and tander to take up your offer of a race at winton Phil - make sure you give them the oldest holden you have! - seems almost symbolic that you chose a blue background for the slot car table in the marquee. Edited July 28, 2008 by GlovemanP510 Quote I rather push my Datto than drive anything else! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilR Posted July 29, 2008 Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 Hey could someone foward a link to this thread to Holden,HRT and Southern Models? Maybe if a bunch of people did it..it might get noticed? Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted July 29, 2008 Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 No good ..... they would probably want a percentage for every time there product is mentioned. Quote Quickly read this post before it is deleted or i turn grey again Gary http://www.facebook.com/Rallyproxy2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue95 Posted July 29, 2008 Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 Maybe they could just release white ones with a masking kit for the windows and some headlight/taillight decals. Then we can paint them whatever colour we want and not worry about all this royalties rubbish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bandit Posted July 29, 2008 Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 Couldn't see them releasing plain white ones as i reckon they would get paranoid about people painting hrt colors.catch 22 i think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinno Posted July 29, 2008 Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 Couldn't see them releasing plain white ones as i reckon they would get paranoid about people painting hrt colors.catch 22 i think. But you can't buy the decals :huh2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eno the Wonderdog Posted July 29, 2008 Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 It seems silly when for teh number of them that are bought for kids they're gonna get new little fans all over the place bugging Dad to take them to teh races Quote Captain's log: We are enroute to some planet whose name I cannot pronounce to do something really complicated that I don't understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagleby flyer Posted July 29, 2008 Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 There all only interested in 'What we can get now' rather than any flow on good will for the future. It's a shame but look at Sonny Bill and all sports are having the same problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilR Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 Peter Thompson ,who owns Southern models told me at the toy fair in melbourne over a year ago,that they would never release plain white ones as they would be competition for thier liveried models.. But he had just finished telling me that slotcar enthusiasts are only a small part of thier market and that specialist slotcar shops are mostly a nuisance to them because we expect too much and complain too much.. Stands to reason that only enthusiasts would buy white ones so surely white ones would only sell in small numbers doesnt it? I cant figure that company out at all.. Scalextric is a toy manufacturer..and southern models are a multi line toy and hobby supplies distributor. We are very lucky to have ever seen the v8's in the first place and Southern models does deserve credit for that. I think the only real answer is for a local cottage industry to start up production of these things .Buy the licencing rights for the plain bodies and Maybe get them manufactured in China. The alledged multi K tooling costs are just so much bullshit as far as I'm concerned.. I have a mate who knows quite a bit about cad modelling and injection moulding and he is adamant that something as basic as one of these v8 slotcars wouldnt be very hard to do at all.. Southern models does the classic carlectable range..they pay for all the cad design and tooling...That is quite expensive as the diecast models have so much detail..But they use that same cad modelling to derive the design for thier new scalextric v 8 body shell..It all gets done as a job lot..So the big $ figures that get bandied about are morer likely a reflection of the costs for the die cast models. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick1776 Posted July 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 Phil, Get your mate to cost it up, Cad + dies made up. For a basic V8 car without interior how many parts do we have. Body + wing + chassis + wheels + tyres + flag. The last three items you could source from existing parts leaving the first three. So how much to Cad + manufacture the 3 dies? Lets say 10K for the whole lot, is that reasonable (Ive been told 30-40K but lets go with 10K)? This gets us ready for production. So whats a serious production quantity run that a company in China would undertake? Well at a guess Id say 1500 would be a minimum as thats what Southern models does. Would they entertain the idea of a production run of say 400? Maybe but I think you would be paying a premium for such a production run. Such a production run would just be a nuisance. (I enquired at Mabuchi for a run of scaly type motors and minimum order was 10K units to whatever spec I wanted). So lets settle for a production run of 1500 at $10 per car? Is that reasonable? Thats 25K all up, divide by 1500, thats only $16.66 per car. Im not including royalties, maybe double the cost? $33?? Sounds easy so far, we just need a comfirmed 1500 sales. So all we need is 1500 slotcar enthusiasts to part with 33 dollars. Do we have 1500?? Id say no. What about 150?? Maybe. So for $330 we could have say Peter Brocks 79 A9X, arguably the most recognised/popular 70s classic tourer?? Im serious, get your mate to cost it up. What I now need is a confirmed 150 sloters willing to part with $330 for a production run of 1500 Brock A9X cars. For that you would get 10 cars each to flog off on ebay or whatever. We could mate this up with Moffats 77 XC to keep the Ford boys happy. Ive got a fairly strong lead to start talks with licensing issues with the Brock car. Just looking for 150 people to part with $330 or if Phil's mate can cost the dies cheaper than 10K even better. cheers rick1776 Quote cheers rick1776 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yngwie Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 Phil, Get your mate to cost it up, Cad + dies made up. For a basic V8 car without interior how many parts do we have. Body + wing + chassis + wheels + tyres + flag. The last three items you could source from existing parts leaving the first three. So how much to Cad + manufacture the 3 dies? Lets say 10K for the whole lot, is that reasonable (Ive been told 30-40K but lets go with 10K)? This gets us ready for production. So whats a serious production quantity run that a company in China would undertake? Well at a guess Id say 1500 would be a minimum as thats what Southern models does. Would they entertain the idea of a production run of say 400? Maybe but I think you would be paying a premium for such a production run. Such a production run would just be a nuisance. (I enquired at Mabuchi for a run of scaly type motors and minimum order was 10K units to whatever spec I wanted). So lets settle for a production run of 1500 at $10 per car? Is that reasonable? Thats 25K all up, divide by 1500, thats only $16.66 per car. Im not including royalties, maybe double the cost? $33?? Sounds easy so far, we just need a comfirmed 1500 sales. So all we need is 1500 slotcar enthusiasts to part with 33 dollars. Do we have 1500?? Id say no. What about 150?? Maybe. So for $330 we could have say Peter Brocks 79 A9X, arguably the most recognised/popular 70s classic tourer?? Im serious, get your mate to cost it up. What I now need is a confirmed 150 sloters willing to part with $330 for a production run of 1500 Brock A9X cars. For that you would get 10 cars each to flog off on ebay or whatever. We could mate this up with Moffats 77 XC to keep the Ford boys happy. Ive got a fairly strong lead to start talks with licensing issues with the Brock car. Just looking for 150 people to part with $330 or if Phil's mate can cost the dies cheaper than 10K even better. cheers rick1776 Im in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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