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rosco01

Mr Slotcar spur and pinion gears

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Hi folk,

my turn to ask some questions of the forum who have a much more thorough and familiar understanding of things than I.

I purchased a "Mr Slotcar" F1 GTR McLaren white kit some time back, and have run into trouble with the gears.

A split occurred in the nylon gear part of the spur... and eventually, the pinion chewed out one of the teeth. This car had done almost nothing until it was placed on the track for a bit of a bedding in... I did not notice the split in the gear when setting it up, nor truing the tyres etc. etc... I'm guessing it may have been a hairline split in manufacture.

 

So, rather than pester Armchair - I looked in vain on line for a replacement - a 29 tooth anglewinder spur gear.

I ordered in three of them from Slot-It, including a pair of matching anglewinder pinions...

To my disappointment - none of the replacement spur gears will fit.... if you look at the Mr Slotcar spur, the "hub" is located on the opposite side to that of Slot-It... and the bevel as well.... there isn't any way that I can fit the Slot-It gears into the space available in this model... practically no adjustment is possible other than by shimming the motor mount and the usual moving of the pinion.... none of those will allow the Slot-It replacements to fit...

 

So, can some kind person tell me - what manufacturer of spare parts supply Mr Slotcar?.. and, has anyone had similar issues with this manufacturer for spare parts.

I am no longer a fan of nylon spur gears... and will more than likely go to Ergal if I can find some that will fit.

 

Another issue - is the Revo-slot Porsche 911 GT-2 that I have. I have four of this model from Revo - but one of them is a problem child... again, this blasted spur gear. 

33 teeth with nylon insert... and it is terribly out of true. I have tried to bed it in using the usual method of toothpaste and Brasso, plus some very fine cutting fluid... but it simply won't bed in and is an extremely annoying noisy model on the track. I have fitted silicone insulators between the body/chassis and also coated the floating pod mounts to the chassi with Slot-It grease.... this eased some of the noise, but it is this blasted spur which needs replacing - and I am extremely hesitant to order another with the nylon gear pressed onto an ali hub... I will go Ergal if I can find one to fit.

Gripe over - now hoping for some remedial advice and suggestion to purchase replacement gears.....

 

Much appreciated,

frats,

Rosco

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In hosting some proxy rounds, I have seen people be remarkably, and somewhat surprisingly, successful in using a standard sidewinder spur gear in an anglewinder  application. It's all about getting the gear lash perfect and minimal amount of sideways movement locked in....

What do you have to lose to try?


Cheers,

 

Tony.

 

There's only two questions:

 

1. What direction do you go

2. What's the Lap Record?

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Thanks Tony, the issues are sitting with Armchair at present.... they may be able to supply me with a spur for the Mr Slotcar McLaren... but, if I could find an Ergal one from another manufacturer - I wouldn't hesitate.

As for the Revo GT-2 Porsche... I might just have to bite the bullet and order a replacement. Sadly, as far as I can find - Revo only provide the one set of anglewinder pinion and spur gears.... universal fit to all their models - happy to be advised otherwise.

Yes, I have a number of Slot-It sidewinder spur gears of differing ratios.... it wouldn't take long to fit one up and mesh it to a matched pinion... the ones I have are all Ergal.. and they will bed in.... eventually.

I find this particularly annoying, that manufacturers in the upper eshalon of price bracket - are extremely short sighted in supply of parts, and those parts being fundamental and necessary to long term running of their models... l

Maybe, it's just the retail outlets we are limited to here in Oz... I am yet to look beyond our shores for other suppliers - if those parts actually exist.

thanks for your reply,

frats,

Rosco

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With the Revos having 3mm axles, perhaps 1/24 components/ gears would fit and give you wider options? I don't know, just putting it out there

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Thanks Shaynus... yes, Revo took that direction - which made the fitting of ball bearings to the front and rear axle a lot easier....

I have a lathe which I can very accurately bore out the 3/32" hub of a slot it spur to 3.0 mm... but, until I persue all other options of obtaining replacements for this issue - I'm hesitant to throw one of my Slot-It Ergal gears under the bus if they prove to be incompatible...

There is adjustment in the Revo chassis to move the motor fore/aft and also it can be shimmed out in the mount if necessary - I'm fairly confident that I can effect a replacement... an awful lot easier than the Mr Slotcar chassis in which there is very little adjustment available, and the blasted chassis has a narrow opening for the spur to run within... I don't believe I'll ever consider purchase of another Mr Slotcar model... no spare parts listed in the directory of my two main suppliers... great body, and the model was very fast before that split in the spur came into play..... such a critical component - and one which surely, the manufacturer would have appreciated needed to be replaced in service... I might be missing something - but I just don't get this.... 

frats,

Rosco

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A Plafit 33 tooth spur gear for 3mm axle is a direct replacement for the Revoslot, if Mr Slotcar in Hallam doesn't have one Ace Hobbies should.

 


The people in charge don't know what they are doing, but they have no idea that they have no idea what they are doing.

Dan Andrews needs a prison term not another term as Premier.

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you ripper, Mt P... thanks for that - I'll pick up a bunch of them.

Are they available in Ergal? or anything other than nylon gearwheel?

 

frats,

Rosco

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Ace currently out of stock - they have spurs for all other numbers of teeth but 33 at present... 

Mr Slotcar not listing them as I took a peek online...

frats,

Rosco

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No Plafit gears are not Ergal but they don't need to be, I have them in most of my 1/24th cars that have been running for many years without failure.

 


The people in charge don't know what they are doing, but they have no idea that they have no idea what they are doing.

Dan Andrews needs a prison term not another term as Premier.

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Thanks Mt.P... Werner has been in touch, he doesn't have 33T - but we are in discussion with picking up both 32T and 34T... one will fit in just nicely.

As for Mr. Slotcar and Revo models, this goes against the well-worn adage of "you get what you pay for"... 

Will let you know how I go with Ace

frats,

Rosco

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Hi Rosco,

I endorse the comments of the blokes who have mentioned Plafit gears as an alternative for 3 mm axles, and have actually fitted a Plafit spur and pinion to one of my Revoslot Ferrari 333SP.

I mentioned the Plafit pinion as well as the spur gear as you have to ensure that both have the same pitch i.e. teeth per inch, and some times there are subtle differences that may affect gear mesh.

Has the change of ratio worked? Having had very little opportunity to check lap times in the past couple of years 'the jury' is still out.

 

In regard to the 'wrong-sided' hub on the MR spur gear Ninco actually made angle-cut spur gears with the hub in the same orientation as the MR.

However, I am not sure whether spur gears are exactly 3/32nd bore or whether they are 2.50 mm bore as was Ninco's custom in their early years.

Den

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Thanks Den,

I have ordered two sets of Plafit spur gears and one 4 pack of nylon pinions - will post here when they arrive and have been fitted.

I suspect the model runs a little quieter with both nylon spur and pinion - my Jagermeiser GT-2 911 Porsche is very, very noisy - I have fitted silicone insulating washers under the heads of the body mount screws, a light smearing of Slot-It grease to all faces of the floating chassis/pod contact plates and posts and ensured that all burrs were removed from all holes - as a You Tube video of some 1 hour 34 min and another suggested. Interestingly, in the long vid - they made mention of replacing the Revo pinion for a quieter mesh... but did not state which pinion they used.... 

As for Mr Slotcar GT-1 McLaren - it's a lovely model...body wise and was a treat to assemble and paint (in SMS colour-shift "Black Hole") but the mech and availability of spare parts has set a firm intention that this is the last Mr Slotcar model I will ever purchase.

If I cannot purchase a replacement spur for the McLaren - I'll more than likely attempt to fit/modify something that will fit in the narrow chassis slot where the spur gear runs in the chassis - I don't, at this stage - want to compromise the chassis by breaking away the area and kit-bashing something around a spur from some other manufacturer....

 

Thanks, Den for your reply - it is comforting to note that the Plafit spur and pinion are a successful replacement for Revo... 

My other Revo (five) models all run fine - it's just this one which has a "wonky" spur... and I'm a little shocked that Revo let it past their QC. - Flyslot, certainly - I have issues with that brand.... but Revo?.... I had greater faith that a manufacturer in the higher bracket would be beyond the (excuse any attributed denigration - aimed at manufacturer, not employees) "sheltered workshop" assembly line......

frats,

Rosco

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BRM do a alloy 33t spur gear that is a direct fit on revoslot, as they both use the same gear set.

check that both the spur, and pinion is concentric on the revoslot, as some of the early ones were very bad.

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Thanks Espsix..... will do.

I have some Plafit on order... but will look at BRM. Maybe,  this is where they source them from - from memory, BRM and Revo are related.

frats,

Rosco

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On 5/12/2022 at 4:13 AM, rosco01 said:

Hi folk,

my turn to ask some questions of the forum who have a much more thorough and familiar understanding of things than I.

I purchased a "Mr Slotcar" F1 GTR McLaren white kit some time back, and have run into trouble with the gears.

A split occurred in the nylon gear part of the spur... and eventually, the pinion chewed out one of the teeth. This car had done almost nothing until it was placed on the track for a bit of a bedding in... I did not notice the split in the gear when setting it up, nor truing the tyres etc. etc... I'm guessing it may have been a hairline split in manufacture.

 

So, rather than pester Armchair - I looked in vain on line for a replacement - a 29 tooth anglewinder spur gear.

I ordered in three of them from Slot-It, including a pair of matching anglewinder pinions...

To my disappointment - none of the replacement spur gears will fit.... if you look at the Mr Slotcar spur, the "hub" is located on the opposite side to that of Slot-It... and the bevel as well.... there isn't any way that I can fit the Slot-It gears into the space available in this model... practically no adjustment is possible other than by shimming the motor mount and the usual moving of the pinion.... none of those will allow the Slot-It replacements to fit...

 

So, can some kind person tell me - what manufacturer of spare parts supply Mr Slotcar?.. and, has anyone had similar issues with this manufacturer for spare parts.

I am no longer a fan of nylon spur gears... and will more than likely go to Ergal if I can find some that will fit.

 

Another issue - is the Revo-slot Porsche 911 GT-2 that I have. I have four of this model from Revo - but one of them is a problem child... again, this blasted spur gear. 

33 teeth with nylon insert... and it is terribly out of true. I have tried to bed it in using the usual method of toothpaste and Brasso, plus some very fine cutting fluid... but it simply won't bed in and is an extremely annoying noisy model on the track. I have fitted silicone insulators between the body/chassis and also coated the floating pod mounts to the chassi with Slot-It grease.... this eased some of the noise, but it is this blasted spur which needs replacing - and I am extremely hesitant to order another with the nylon gear pressed onto an ali hub... I will go Ergal if I can find one to fit.

Gripe over - now hoping for some remedial advice and suggestion to purchase replacement gears.....

 

Much appreciated,

frats,

Rosco

Rosco, You need a 15.5mm Spur......buy the 15.5mm straight cut ergal Spur from MRSlotcar,......there is absolutely no need (or advantage ) to using an"angled" Spur, these went out of vogue in the early seventies, and you will not see a high end 1/32 or 1/24 club or commercial track car using them. Similarly, many folks running 1/32 plastic cars do not think of using them.

Straight cut Spurs can also be used boss in , or, boss out, depending on your spacing/clearance.

And by the way, there is no such thing as a dedicated inline/Sidewinder/anglewinder pinion, just pinions of different diameters,.....the different diameters of both pinion and Spurs, allow you to play with many gear ratio variations, and "fit" gears into many motor configurations.........eg, on your McLaren you could use........a 6.5mm pinion with a 15.5mm Spur,....a 5.5mm pinion with a 16.5mm Spur, or, a 7.5mm pinion with a 14.5mm Spur...(all these Spur sizes are available from MRSlotcar).

The MRSlotcar gears are cut by Sonic, who has been making high end slotcar gears for decades,...their quality is better than the Chinese made gears, which virtually all plastic car manufacturers use.

PS You can also play with varying size pinions and Spurs from Slot-it/NSR/SCaleauto etc. etc.

Cheers

Chris Walker

Edited by Chrisguyw
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Thanks yet once again, Chris - you have showered me with factual information that I have absolutely no knowledge base in, many thanks.

From what I have been able to find, none of the Mr Slotcar service parts are stocked by outlets here in Oz..... I am happy (and would be obliged for correction) to learn otherwise.

I have quite a number of straight cut spurs and a number of differing sizes of pinions - with your information, I'll juggle some around until I get a match that both fits - and meets the ratio of that used by the OEM.

Further, I have some pinions and spurs coming this week - from what I can see, those spurs are straight cut.

I have pondered on a slot car manufacturer attempting to fit hypoid gears - as used in differentials in 1:1 scale cars. They should be quieter, but I suspect may cause a degree of drag within the mesh..... not to mention the expense of tooling up and the precision necessary for efficient operation.. your thoughts?

 

thanks again,

very much appreciated for your requested information and reply...

frats,

Rosco

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Forgot to ask, Chris - Ergal spurs, are they noisier? and if I may - the advantages over plastic/nylon teeth, other than holding shape and I expect longevity in use?

frats,

Rosco

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1 hour ago, rosco01 said:

Thanks yet once again, Chris

I have pondered on a slot car manufacturer attempting to fit hypoid gears - as used in differentials in 1:1 scale cars. They should be quieter, but I suspect may cause a degree of drag within the mesh..... not to mention the expense of tooling up and the precision necessary for efficient operation.. your thoughts?

Rosco

From a slotcar perspective the only advantage to using hypoid gears is that they are designed to work with the rear axle above the centerline of the motor shaft, which for a given sized rear tire will lower the cg.

Hypoid/bevelled gears were never really designed to be quieter, but rather they were designed for heavy industrial (high torque) applications where having the load spread across the entire face of the gear teeth was beneficial..........no slot car motors have that much torque, but, hypoid do have a place in slotcar racing due to the lowering of the cg. by raising the rear axle in relation to the motor shaft.

They are also designed with a specific "offset" in mind,.....the teeth on a Slot-it "offset" contrate are cut to work best with the rear axle 1mm above the motor shaft, excessive deviations in the "offset" amount will result in poor/noisy mesh.

So if your rear axle is level with the motor shaft (this only applies to inline motor configurations), and your gears are well installed, are in good shape, are close to ideal pitch (more on this in a moment) and the mesh is set correctly they will be whisper quiet.

As all of the plastic car manufacturers play silly bugger with their pinions and Spurs (in simple terms they alter the tooth shape to fit more/less teeth on a fixed diameter) it is good to know what is the ideal tooth count for any given diameter, as , if  too many teeth are added/subtracted, mesh issues occur, as at a point, the pitch has to change.

So here is a "conversion thingie", that applies to all NSR/Slot-it/Scaleauto/MRSlotcar/Scaley gears.

Take the diameter of the gear and multiply by 2,  then minus 2.

EG a 6.5mm pinion x 2 = 13 - 2 = 11T,..........for a 6.5mm diameter pinion an 11T is as close to .5 module as you will get,.....so "perfect" .5 module

EG a 18mm Slot-it spur x 2 = 36 - 2 = 34,........."perfect" pitch for an 18mm spur is 34T

You can deviate plus or minus 1T from "perfect" on a pinion without issues, and plus minus 2 teeth on a Spur before issues arise.

Hope this helps

Cheers

Chris Walker

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Wow, this is great Chris - I'm a victim for detail such as this - my ignorance simply demonstrates my lack of knowledge and understanding.

I now have something to work with, and can set in place such formulae when deciding on pinion/spur combinations.... to match a given ratio.

Of course, I may never get the sizes in both - but I should be able to get close..

Issues with small tyres/large spurs etc - well, that has to play out as part of the process.... 

I am intrigued to learn that I should be able to get an almost silent mesh - and hopefully, this is achievable using Ergal?

It may have passed your desk un-noticed, but I asked of the benefits of Ergal over nylon/plastic/Delrin etc. etc.... lightweight is my belief, and rigidity plus long life (if maintained).

Thanks again, 

I'll add your comments to my "data" folder in slot cars - you are rapidly becoming the prominant author and source...

 

frats,

Rosco

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2 hours ago, rosco01 said:

Forgot to ask, Chris - Ergal spurs, are they noisier? and if I may - the advantages over plastic/nylon teeth, other than holding shape and I expect longevity in use?

frats,

Rosco

All things being equal, I do not find Ergal Spurs to be any noisier than plastic,.....if you do have a pinion that is off center, damaged tooth etc. then the plastic Spur may well be quieter. but, this is only masking an issue that should be fixed.

While many 1/32 plastic car racers do use/like plastic gears, I generally stay away from them for the following reasons.

A gear that is "cut" (Ergal, Brass, Steel) is generally more precise than a molded plastic/nylon gear, especially when the gear molds are getting on.

Plastic Spur gears must be bonded to an aluminum hub, another potential for "misalignment"

Plastic pinions have a plastic (soft) bore, and, unless  installed very carefully, they are prone to wobble.

If everything is concentric to start with, and, assembled well, the low torque of all the motors most commonly used in our plastic cars is not enough to really cause much variation in wear between Nylon/Erga

Cheers

Chris Walker

 

Edited by Chrisguyw

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Thanks Chris - I have a dislike for plastic/nylon/delrin gears - from my model railway experience.

Another factor, which I may throw into you list of postives for ergal - oil..... I have suffered many locomotive gearboxes "spliting" the axle bore of which the axle gear is part of the moulding... with the devastating result that the gearbox "jumps".

There has been much talk over the years of what oils to use for plastic... and some oil manufacturers state adamantly that their oil will not affect plastic.

I beg to differ - some of the gears I have used dedicated to such oils have suffered - but so far, I am unable to find a model railway supplier who stocks brass or ergal axle tubed gears... the greater difficulty being - electrical contact between the two sides of the axle... it is mandatory that the two wheel sets on each side of the bogie are isolated - much akin to that of our slot car guide braid.... 

There are a number of greases which I have found useful, but they are heavy compared to light oil - and also attract dirt..... the very nature of tyres etc running on a slot car track is almost impossible to run dirt free.... unlike locomotive gearboxes which run a nickel on nickel contact and are usually enclosed.... 

I will track down some ergal spurs and quality brass pinions... and let's see how the repair/replacement stack up... I went on line again today searching for local suppliers of Mr Slotcar here in Oz - and came up empty handed... 

 

thanks again, Chris..

frats,

Rosco

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