2021 Touring Car Proxy Race Results

[charlesx]

Hi Sports Racer and Peter Gunn.

I race in all sorts of events (1/32 and 1/24th) and really have no preference. What I do however is not follow everybody else where rules permit. I also like cars to resemble their real counterpart and be close to scale except when racing 1/24th thingies.

In our standard  Scaly GT for example while the predominant  car is the Chevrolet Corvette but  I like to race my Bentley GT or BMW Z4 GT. Likewise in Open GT the NSR Mosler rules locally but I like to insert my Thunderslot Lola GT. or Slot-it GT1.

My racing days are well past their best as I am in 7th decade of slot car racing but while I skill enjoy racing I try to promote sport and really enjoy building cars including from scratch. I did this at 15 and and it is still my favourite pastime. I have been in up to 12 proxies in one single year and frequently have several going at once. Just as well I am well retired.

Keep up the good work to you both. The future of slot car racing depends on your like.

Regards Charles Le Breton (charlesx)

 

[Sports Racer]

Thanks but how do you get a Scaley Corvette to stay with the Porsche or Mercedes GT3's? These 2 dominate our racing. 

And as for racing into your 7th decade, I'm not far behind you. 

[Peter Gunn]

You don't unless you 3d chassis it Paul, and Charles not so sure the future of slot car racing is in our hands, or at least mine now my 60th year being involved in slot cars and it won't go on for ever, as always the hobby needs new blood to continue , which it won't especially after i noticed the new Thunderslot Mustang is arounf £90 here , god knows what it will cost you guys postage and all down under..

[charlesx]

Sounds like we are all fairly long in the tooth. I do my best to encourage my grand children after failing with my children. They sailed instead. May be a passing phase though. Agree we need some new blood.

Not sure about cost because I went from slot cars to karts and my first kart only cost $250. Today you need $30000-40000 to get started.

Re Porsche and Mercedes agree Mercedes is not bad but I am not sure which Porsche you mean. Trouble with Mercedes is it is one of the new in-line `Slot-it developed models. Tend to be very light. My BMW Z4 is even worse as Scaly put terrible tyres on it. Remember we race as a standard class. One car we have found fairly good of late however is the Pagani Roadster.

Regards Charles Le Breton (charlesx)

 

[Sports Racer]

We've got a lot of under 40's racing in Canberra. Helps if you have a slot car shop to attract newby's.

[Peter Gunn]

One of the very few remaining clubs in Essex ( think were down to 3 ) has a average age of 71, currently they have 16 members , that might have changed since i last heard from them due to attrition of members think the oldest is 82.

[charlesx]

Hi Sports Racer.

Is there a particular Porsche you are talking about. I only have the earlier 911. See there are new Le Mans coming out. Regards Charles Le Breton

[DP2O1]

Charles 

In our Scaley GT class in Canberra for most of the clubs in town the Mercedes and 911 RSR are very competitive although the new Astons appear to be up there. The occasional Audi, Bentley and Z4 do pop into the top three but not regularly. Latest surprise is the Pagani. Class is control except for no magnet, Mjk type tyres and weight. 

We find the newer racers add more weight until they improve their skills and most of our top racers now only have 5-10 gms added in most of their cars. Some classes (nsr, slotit, revo) don’t even need any these days. Main use for weight is to either keep guide engaged or to improve traction. It doesn’t really affect outright top speed, although I prefer to reduce added weight as much as possible to aid overall acceleration out of corners and brake later.  I set mine up with a standard (for me) weight distribution front to rear axle.  But we all drive differently.
 

Edited June 20, 2022 by DP2O1

[charlesx]

Thanks DP201. We race standard everything in Scaly GT but recently have allowed a little weight in new in-line cars - say 5gms. Agree Pagani good. Open to any Scaly GT. I have suggested we all use same tyres - Slot-it N22 but it was decided to stick to original. Most Scaly tyres not bad but BWM Z4 shocking. Still get mine going OK occasionally. Agree also Aston Martin good but Corvette still still rules. Rear axle very wide. How wide is Porsche 911 RSR. Looks wide with big guards. Regards Chas Le Breton

[Sports Racer]

Standard tyres and max of 5g lead - you may as well be on another planet compared to what we can do to our cars. No wonder the Corvette is your preferred weapon of choice.

[Peter Gunn]

Depends if you wish to be competative in these proxies Charles , the faster better handling cars all carry weight as low down as possible especially to keep the nose planted that helps change of direction handling in esses and tight bends ( depending on what rules there are ), also the weight of Scaley bodies is against them , i'm using a SCX Merc body and stripped it right out and it,s still not competative with you know who , handles well but i come back to motor power not in the league of the top two.

To be fair might be an idea to run a proxy for scaley , as you call them proper looking cars but not sure of the take up but it might get a following you never know

[charlesx]

Hi Sports Racer and Peter Gunn.

The 5 gms is optional for the new inline cars only as they could not compete with older non-weighted sidewinder cars. Two contributing factors with these cars is that they tend to be very light and the tyres fitted in some cases are atrocious. The BMW Z4 being the worst by far. The Mercedes and Pagani may be the exception but weight is still allowed. If they start beating the Corvettes rules may change but that has not happened yet. The 5gm limit also encourages the introduction of the new inline cars. I have just repaired a Corvette axle/wheel for my little brother. I was surprised how wide it was even compared to my Bentley. No wonder they handle so well. I am not allowed any weight in my Bentley however as it is a sidewinder and already heavy enough even if rather top heavy. The new Aston Martin is inline though so it will be allowed the same 5gms weight and this would apply to the likes of the Ford GTE.

Talking of weight it was not really a big issue in NZ until SlotsNZ started the NZ Canam Proxy over 10 years ago. We welcomed slotties from Aussie and some of their cars were very heavy. It caught on in at least some parts of NZ. I think it is now used too much.

It is really about equalising performance as far as possible as far as I am concerned. It is the same for everybody so we are all competitive.

Re proxies I have been quite successful over the years so the Touring Car Proxy which I have much enjoyed is not typical in several  respects. I accept what Sports Racer says but I will continue to only add weight when required. This is just my personal view. I also like my cars to look right and try to select models that are close to scale. Wheels outside body a No No.

The Bathurst 1000 Proxy is a Scaly event is it not. There have been plenty of others based on certain models brands - e.g. Scaly, SCX, Thunderslot, NSR and Slot-it to name a few. My preference is hand-built so watch this space or FB for my next Tasman Cup build.

Regards Chas Le Breton

[sticks]

2 hours ago, Peter Gunn said:

Depends if you wish to be competative in these proxies Charles , the faster better handling cars all carry weight as low down as possible especially to keep the nose planted that helps change of direction handling in esses and tight bends ( depending on what rules there are ), also the weight of Scaley bodies is against them , i'm using a SCX Merc body and stripped it right out and it,s still not competative with you know who , handles well but i come back to motor power not in the league of the top two.

To be fair might be an idea to run a proxy for scaley , as you call them proper looking cars but not sure of the take up but it might get a following you never know

 

I read all the post but I find this quote and quote below from Round 8 Alvora's to be some what contradictory

 

'Weight placement does not improve the overall speed in fact it tends to slow cars down , the more weight you carry the slower you are , physics Paul., the videos show 2 cars a lot faster than others that's the proof in the videos ."

[Peter Gunn]

True Sticks it sounds that way but it isn't the laws of physics is really quite simple bit to long to go into here it might bore you but basically it,s a 2 way thing carrying to much weight in the right or wrong place slows the car up, carrying weight in the right place say the centre , centre front of the car will help the car to acheive a better performance all round as the car will be easier to drive , easier to drive means the driver is able to drive smoother and we all know a smooth drive is usually the way to go .

Then of course you have lateral movement say weight in the out riggers can cause this , some call it snaking if you have a powerful motor , but if your running an average cooking motor we call it a bloody nuisance as the car slides out.

Now if your interested i can send you graph,s showing how weight placement affects how your car runs, but the basics are lower the weight the better and run with as little top weight as possible Paul S[ports Racer is a good example of this , now there is a graph to show deflection rate but my lunch is ready so i'll copy it for you and send a pm when i can , hope this little explanation is helpful to you

[Sports Racer]

On 6/21/2022 at 6:27 PM, sticks said:

 

I read all the post but I find this quote and quote below from Round 8 Alvora's to be some what contradictory

 

'Weight placement does not improve the overall speed in fact it tends to slow cars down , the more weight you carry the slower you are , physics Paul., the videos show 2 cars a lot faster than others that's the proof in the videos ."

Depends on who you listen to.

In Canberra we tune our cars with lead and it's easy to get the car handling much better than standard. The trick is to add as little lead as possible so the car isn't too heavy. Between 80 and 90g is the target.

Keith keeps harping about how quick mine and Andrew's cars are on the straights. My car wouldn't even finish in the top 10 in a drag race against the other proxy cars but it does carry a lot of corner speed into the straights. Hard to describe how easy it is to drive fast - beautifully balanced and predictable. It can be driven very deep into corners at speed and powered out much earlier than most of the other proxy cars.   

[Sports Racer]

On 6/21/2022 at 9:47 PM, Peter Gunn said:

Now if your interested i can send you graph,s showing how weight placement affects how your car runs, but the basics are lower the weight the better and run with as little top weight as possible Paul S[ports Racer is a good example of this , now there is a graph to show deflection rate but my lunch is ready so i'll copy it for you and send a pm when i can , hope this little explanation is helpful to you

How does your graph go re 2 lead weights placed behind the rear axle, as far back and as far apart as possible?

Asking for a friend. 

[charlesx]

Would be interested to see graph. If weight allowed tend to put directly in front of motor and  behind guide (if front lifts). Weight at back bad on NSR at least. My weighted cars apart from NSR usually have about 5-10gms - e.g. Scaly Camaro, Aussie V8's, Group C, Open GT. Our tracks are smooth  and smoother. Cleaned with fuelite before use each time.

Regards Charles Le Breton (charlesx)

[Peter Gunn]

WEIGHT A MINUTE,  is an article i will have to dig out for you all , there are many factors to this the velocity of the car , weight displacement , set up and the actual final prep, in this catagory comes tyres and tyre prep. whole bag of parts actually and to get the best slot car you can it takes everything to come together .

Normally you don't put weight behind the front axle or aft of the rear axle but i have seen it before and noticed it was in a offset pattern set up ( pod and contrate ) tried it myself and it was slightly more stable round about a half to a tenth per lap, but then tyres came into play .

The sweet spot all cars have this all of a suddern you car goes better with your set up , why because the tyres have a optimum operating windo w i have found half a millimeter to threequarters ground clearence is spot on , but that's on wood if your using plastic you have to allow for the rails so you set the car slightly higher, now this does not sound much but it is when you are trying to extract maximum performance in competition and using plastic to set up on and then race on wood.

Now we come to cornering  i have seen slot cars with a weight bais to one side or another , why well after driving them i found out the cars had been set up for a specific type of track more right handers am yep the car was quicker as it was heavier on the left  still don't get that one but it did work for that car, so weight displacemant can vary.

i am experimenting on weight movement on my old Racer group 5 cars i ran there a couple or more years ago was running them around 90 gr but now at 80 gr and concentrated the weight through the middle of the car front to back , so far the cars are on my mates wood track going through their paces and the reduction is looking interesting don't forget were dealing with tenths here .

This is where the tyres come in all fitted with NSR trued and glued ( NO GUNK ) set at 1 mm  initial start of John will run these cars taking readings at every tenth of a mm until he finds the optimum running height which i suspect will be the half a mm , you may ask why , because i have the time to do it and interested to see if i can get the best slot car for me i can.

Paul and myself have a love hate relationship i love him chuckle he hates me chuckle , no not really we just disagree on many things , next one will be a series motor if we do this proxy again , after this years debacle as far as were concerned does need to be sorted or at least a list of Paul approved motors.

Now i will have to find the these graph's as there is an interesting on on over tyring your car which according to the graph i seem to remember affects the performance but not in a positive way , well that's a nice short piece next one will take about 2 hours tp put on her i reckon , suggest you get coffee ready

 

[charlesx]

Hi Peter. I also find the weight of the motor can be an important factor. Looking at F1 NSR generic it has a very heavy FX180 motor which contributes greatly to its 73gm weight. The Policar  F1 with its much lighter FF050 is considerably lighter at about 62gms. Neither is raced with any weight as they go fine without. Another factor is that the NSR has a much shorter wheelbase. Both  cars handle like a dream OTB with a little tyre sanding. I did not even have to glue tyres.. The NSR motor is far more powerful but I found the biggest contributing factor was the tyres. The story continues but when I put the NSR wheels and tyres on the Poilcar there was not a huge difference. Fore this reason the NSR is raced completely stock but the Policar is allowed any tyre.

Does not help with the weight thing but explains some other considerations. Still interested in your graphs when you locate. Something else of interest is a little tool one of our local slotties has produced. Enable you to measure the front/back and side/side balance. You may have seen them advertised as I know he commercialised them. I just do by air but I know quite a few people found useful.

Regards Charles Le Breton

[Peter Gunn]

Charles there was an article on tyres many years ago called I'M TYRED OUT not sure if it was by Barrie Wade when he was running team Russkit in the UK , the gist was the thinner the front tyres the better seem to remember the Parma conicals were a pretty good bet on the front in those days , then some clubs stated to ban them because they were not scale , then came nail varnish to put on the wider front tyres which came into being later on .

The less friction all round is the way to go along with a well planted front end , sort of a sledge with the guide and front wheels just touching the track surface , in the spongie days and the use of gunge it really didn't matter what you put on the back seen what we called road roller tyres in those days being used .

Coming up to date i have tried many combinations with 7/8mm tyres for instance work well with motors under 21k but the higher performance motors , not so well so 10mm rears were considered pretty standard for the average plastic chassis car which still works today , have tried 12mm on the rear but i found no advantage if anything the car did not operate so well especially on long distant races we were running then , think the main manufactiurers have it about right .

With all wheels and tyres if your entering competition you need to glue and true them i use a tyre razor which works pretty well as you can do the pair at the same time and get them identical, have got 2 NSR f1,s both are excellent cars i have a black flat 6 in one of them running with NSR EVO'S which is very rapid but the tyres don't last long so back to trued and glued supergrips.

As i have mentioned it is the complete package  which is the way to go i always strip new cars down and rebuild them from the front to the back using things i know that work , like a NSR wood guide on the F1's found i can lean on the fronts more through esses , a softer silver braid and have gone back to collett's after many years using grub screws  just found i have no breakages at all, so some of the old ways still work well.

There is  a lot more on this subject which i will put out but on a new thread before Paul has a pop at me chuckle sometime.

[Sports Racer]

Love / hate?

Honestly Keith, you would have to be the biggest pain I have ever encountered (next to my wife and daughter). 

Loved your recording of the Peter Gunn theme though so there's some balance. 

Keep up the good work (and keeping me on my toes).

Cheers

Paul

[Peter Gunn]

On the music front have just finished my latest cd it,s called BACKIN' TIME and it is a compalation of tracks i recorded over the last 10 years , some medium paced rockers, some cuddly tunes ( as the missus calls them ) as your part of my fan club chuckle will send you a copy.

On the pain side i'm glad i am chuckle .

[Sports Racer]

Results from Round 9 (2nd last round)

Name	Total Points	Points, worst round dropped	Round 9 Laps	Round 9 Lap Time	Round 9 Points
32coupe	204	190	67.51	5.158	25
Sports Racer	215	193	67.50	5.109	24
DP201	184	168	66.61	5.089	23
Dixie	152	141	65.88	5.282	22
lancelot	198	180	65.83	5.176	21
Aloha	134	124	65.66	5.250	20
Alvaro	172	157	65.51	5.317	19
sticks	140	130	65.19	5.252	18
BrumosRSR	101	99	64.97	5.283	17
Shaynus	92	86	64.65	5.379	16
Nev	141	128	64.63	5.324	15
jimmyslots 1950	167	153	64.31	5.308	14
bov	142	132	63.86	5.454	13
Peter Gunn	134	124	63.49	5.374	12
Nonfractal	107	100	63.13	5.376	11
Brooksy	154	144	63.03	5.486	10
Supercharged	96	89	62.22	5.551	9
ArroldN	87	82	61.71	5.376	8
JohnnieE	76	72	61.03	5.910	7
old man	83	79	60.01	5.676	6
BARacer	45	42	59.80	5.471	5
ALS	43	40	59.58	5.701	4
Pepsi62	25	23	58.83	5.769	3
curef99	25	23	57.02	5.937	2

Placings after Round 9

Name	Total Points	Points, worst round dropped	Round 1 Points	Round 2 Points	Round 3 Points	Round 4 Points	Round 5 Points	Round 6 Points	Round 7 Points	Round 8 Points	Round 9 Points
Sports Racer	215	193	23	24	22	23	25	25	24	25	24
32coupe	204	190	25	25	20	22	24	14	25	24	25
lancelot	198	180	19	18	25	25	22	24	21	23	21
DP201	184	168	21	20	23	19	16	18	22	22	23
Alvaro	172	157	24	23	16	17	15	19	23	16	19
jimmyslots 1950	167	153	18	17	24	24	17	23	16	14	14
Brooksy	154	144	22	22	14	21	21	21	11	12	10
Dixie	152	141	11	13	17	20	23	15	12	19	22
bov	142	132	12	15	19	18	20	22	13	10	13
sticks	140	130	14	11	21	14	18	16	10	18	18
Nev	141	128	15	21	18	15	13	17	14	13	15
Aloha	134	124	16	10	10	11	14	12	20	21	20
Peter Gunn	134	124	20	16	13	13	10	13	17	20	12
Nonfractal	107	100	7	8	11	12	11	11	19	17	11
BrumosRSR	101	99	8	2	8	9	19	20	9	9	17
Supercharged	96	89	10	12	15	16	9	10	7	8	9
Shaynus	92	86	6	7	12	7	6	9	18	11	16
ArroldN	87	82	9	14	5	6	7	8	15	15	8
old man	83	79	14	19	9	10	8	4	8	5	6
JohnnieE	76	72	17	9	4	8	12	6	6	7	7
BARacer	45	42	4	3	7	5	5	7	5	4	5
ALS	43	40	5	6	6	4	3	5	4	6	4
Pepsi62	25	23	2	5	2	3	2	3	2	3	3
curef99	25	23	3	4	3	2	4	2	3	2	2

The top 6 look firmly entrenched in their positions so these will be the cars that I'll take the bodies off to show you what makes them tick.

Cheers

Paul

[Shaynus]

Thanks for the update Sports Racer.

How many rounds are left? At my current rate of progress,  I should be in the top ten in 236 more rounds...

[Sports Racer]

One round to go, with luck this Saturday but probably the weekend after.