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G34

First Heat Lap Counting in RC

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Our club is using V14.0 of RC.

We've a strange issue with the first heat of a race failing to register all starters. This ONLY happens on the first lap of any race irrespective of the

number of heats in the race. I've taken a couple of short videos of the problem and uploaded them to dropbox for download. I don't seem to be able to embed video here.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zej9rvxexrbzcpk/20210520_204401.mp4?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/g3rx6t6jg6qjg1a/20210520_194018.mp4?dl=0

 

The lanes involved are random. Whilst we can manually add laps for the lane(s) effected we'd rather cure the problem.

As a second query - how can we add latecomers into an existing race?

Thanks in advance for your collective wisdom. I'll also post on Slotforum just in case.

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21 hours ago, G34 said:

Our club is using V14.0 of RC.

We've a strange issue with the first heat of a race failing to register all starters. This ONLY happens on the first lap of any race irrespective of the

number of heats in the race. I've taken a couple of short videos of the problem and uploaded them to dropbox for download. I don't seem to be able to embed video here.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zej9rvxexrbzcpk/20210520_204401.mp4?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/g3rx6t6jg6qjg1a/20210520_194018.mp4?dl=0

 

The lanes involved are random. Whilst we can manually add laps for the lane(s) effected we'd rather cure the problem.

As a second query - how can we add latecomers into an existing race?

Thanks in advance for your collective wisdom. I'll also post on Slotforum just in case.

re your first query, strange, are you jumping the start at all? Try moving the cars back one car length and start a race, you could always do the same on the other side of the start gantry and start a race there.

RC Contact for Dave: contact@racecoordinator.net

Tutorials Table of Contents: https://www.racecoordinator.net/raceformats.html

FAQ's: https://www.racecoordinator.net/faq.html

When I run laps every other lap (or every third lap) is missed. What is wrong?
There can be many causes of RC missing laps. The simplest is that the race min lap time is set too high for the track size and type of cars you are running. By default the min lap time is set to 3 seconds. If your lap times are faster than that, they won't be counted and an audio queue will be played instead.
The min lap time is configurable in the "Expert Race Setup". The ideal value for the setting is at least half your fastest lap time possible, but no more than your fastest possible lap time. So if your fastest possible lap time is 8 seconds, then the min lap time should be set to at least 4, but really should be set to something closer to 7 or 7.5 seconds.

The next likely cause of missed laps is a sensor/interface issue. Converter cables like parallel to USB can often lead to missed laps. DIY sensor setups may have issues if they're not probably grounded or susceptible to interference or noise on the track. RC provides a debug mode to help troubleshoot such issues. You'll need to go into the Race Day Setup Screen options/preferences menu and enable it. Once enabled you'll need to run laps until the problem occurs then send the logs for my review. Almost without fail, the logs show exactly what you're seeing on the track though, which generally means there's an issue outside the software. For more information and help please visit the Contact page for how to reach me for help.

 

Regarding your second query: 

Race Coordinator Add a late arrival racer to events

Ok folks. Looking for some guidance on using the Race Coordinator software...
Is there a way to drop in (add) a new racer to an already in-progress race? 
We had a situation tonight with an unexpected drop in, but while we could add the user to the race, and he showed up in the list of racers, it never expanded the race or added him to subsequent heats. 
I'm sure I'm missing something (Hopefully) simple.
I know track mate let's you do it very intuitively, but I really love trackmate, stats, screens, etc. 
Any help is appreciated! Pic shows poor Jeff with zero laps.


ANSWER ONE
We've had to for this a few Times, its not too bad. Here's a summarized procedure:
______________
A racer arriving after the start of the race can be added IF there is still at least one racer who has not run in a heat yet. If the last racer’s fist heat has started, that heat can be restarted, and a racer can then be added.
SUMMARIZED PROCESS:
1. Allow existing heat to complete, or restart heat
2. From “Race Director” menu, select “Modify Heat”
3. Add late arriving driver (one at a time) to bottom of list of “Drivers Racing” list.
4. Click “Automate”. Repeat step 3 and 4 for each driver added.
5. Click “Validate”. Fix errors if they appear on screen otherwise…
6. Click “Accept”. You will return to the “Race Day” screen from where you started.
This presumes you're using round robin or friendly round robin.


the method of adding the driver to the bottom of the list only works if you are using a straight rotation and have very specific settings. If you use anything other than a straight rotation the driver list draws from the bottom first, and will likely completely reorganize your heats

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Thanks for your reply.

I'm sure the cars were back from the start line. As I said, this only happens on the first lap of the first heat irrespective of which race

we are running.

I'll run in debug mode next club night and send the file off to Jeff. He has replied to my post on Slotforum suggesting this.

Thanks for the info on adding a latecomer. Will try this next week. We are running a "modified" round robin.

I'll report back with how we get on.

 

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Our club loves RC software, and runs it with Trackmate interfaces on a couple of routed tracks.

We have had the first lap, first heat mis-register issue for so long now, we automatically re-start the first heat of each new race every time.

If we don't, 95 times / 100, at least one lane, more often multiple lanes, do not register the start of the first lap "0", despite not breaking the start. 

Same as G34's feedback, only ever happens on the first lap, of the first heat, of each new race, regardless of race format.

We have quietly raised this problem previously without luck, and have often joked that we are the only club using RC that experiences this problem, or the only club that notices the problem :)

Dave does such great job with RC, it is very much a labour of love for him, and we love it so much, that this is really only a minor issue, but clubs racing for sheep stations should be aware.

Cheers Caddo

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On 6/6/2021 at 9:57 PM, Caddo said:

Our club loves RC software, and runs it with Trackmate interfaces on a couple of routed tracks.

We have had the first lap, first heat mis-register issue for so long now, we automatically re-start the first heat of each new race every time.

If we don't, 95 times / 100, at least one lane, more often multiple lanes, do not register the start of the first lap "0", despite not breaking the start. 

Same as G34's feedback, only ever happens on the first lap, of the first heat, of each new race, regardless of race format.

We have quietly raised this problem previously without luck, and have often joked that we are the only club using RC that experiences this problem, or the only club that notices the problem :)

Dave does such great job with RC, it is very much a labour of love for him, and we love it so much, that this is really only a minor issue, but clubs racing for sheep stations should be aware.

Cheers Caddo

Howdy all,

I have just solved a similar problem on a guys track.

His setup is RC ver1.9 (but I don't think the version has anything to do with it) and uses a Black Trackmate interface,
with the sensors below, embedded in the track surface.

He was getting some weird lap counts, like two lanes at the same time and then nothing at all, other times it all worked OK.

I noted that it was giving most troubles when he had the fluro lights were switched on !!

Anyway, after reinstalling the USB to Com driver, it was still acting up.

As a last resort, I looked at the alignment of the sensors and discovered that they were not that well aligned.

After realigning the sensors, the problem is now solved.

I am not sure if this will help, but it could be worth looking at.

Regards,

Dennis

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Caddo some more info may help see what the problem is.

What race setup is, does each heat restart automatically, etc.

we have RC running on 6 road tracks down here all using TM interface boards and the only time we have a missed first lap is IF we stop and restart a heat for some reason.


Phil

 

Hobart Miniature Car Club

 

Tassie Resins

 

Email

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 5/22/2021 at 12:23 PM, G34 said:

Our club is using V14.0 of RC.

We've a strange issue with the first heat of a race failing to register all starters. This ONLY happens on the first lap of any race irrespective of the

number of heats in the race. I've taken a couple of short videos of the problem and uploaded them to dropbox for download. I don't seem to be able to embed video here.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zej9rvxexrbzcpk/20210520_204401.mp4?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/g3rx6t6jg6qjg1a/20210520_194018.mp4?dl=0

 

The lanes involved are random. Whilst we can manually add laps for the lane(s) effected we'd rather cure the problem.

As a second query - how can we add latecomers into an existing race?

Thanks in advance for your collective wisdom. I'll also post on Slotforum just in case.

Wondering if you got this sorted? Apparently it is occurring on a few other tracks as well?

 

Cheers

Johnno

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Hmmm okay, I will see what my system does during the weekend and possibly next weeks racing also

 

Thanks 

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On 6/8/2021 at 4:35 PM, kalbfellp said:

Caddo some more info may help see what the problem is.

What race setup is, does each heat restart automatically, etc.

we have RC running on 6 road tracks down here all using TM interface boards and the only time we have a missed first lap is IF we stop and restart a heat for some reason.

G'day Phil, the problem is always at start of the first heat of each new race.

Unfortunately there is no common thread that we can find. We change race formats and settings often, but generally always have the first heat issue. 

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I've reached out to Dave at Race Coordinator, and have provided the debug file, the thing is to continue this triage we have to install the Beta version of RC... don't see why when it is v14 with the issue and when you read the Beta upgrade info you lose all your stats...

Another issue when you run the debug mode, you need to create the debug file before you do anything else as apparently the log file is written over by doing other RC operations.. so to get this done requires some very specific steps, the biggest and most detrimental is having to install the Beta version that has nothing to do with the currently installed RC version..... what do I/we do, hmmmm

 

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Installed the beta version last night and ran the debug for the race start as per Dave's instruction.

No downsides to the update aside from losing the custom results screen. Easy enough to copy over again with the custom file.

Will report back once we hear from RC.

 

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Dave from Race Co-Ordinator has posted on Slotforum re the problem with the first lap not recording all racers.Below is his quote from Slotforum.

“The issue seems to center around trigger a lap after the race screen is entered, but before the race starts. Like if you allow warmup laps or if your finger trips the sensor... You can tell it happens if after the "go" when you cross the S/F line the lap count stays at "--" instead of going to 0. The transition to 0 signifies the reaction time has been registered...

For now the easiest workaround is to simply stay clear of the sensors once the race screen is entered. This is only for the very first heat and before the heat starts. After that everything should be fine. If you do trip the sensor after the race screen is entered and before the race starts, you can either restart the heat after the "go" which will fix the problem, or add a lap to the lanes that missed the lap. If you export the race to xls, these missed laps will likely be easy to spot because the driver will end up with a very high reaction time.

Unfortunately I don't know when the issue was introduced. I know the bug is in 1.14 but I assume it's been around a lot longer than that because I have not touched the TM interface in about 2 years.

We're testing a new beta now that should fix the problem and will release it as soon as possible. Obviously missing a lap is a very big deal so I wanted to make sure TM users were aware of the potential problem.

-Dave”

Hope this helps those with the problem

 

charlie

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Once I provided the debug files Dave was instantly able to see something amiss, bloody fast response times Dave, way to go mate.

In testing last night and today the bug appears (for myself at least) even when a race is started with no warmup laps, no items near or under the sensor, I even checked my sensor and gantry alignment with the painted line on the track and they pickup about 5mm into the painted start line so they are aligned very nice.

I've even placed the cars 100mm back from the start line and sensors, started the countdown, track power cuts in at which point I waited a full five seconds before moving the car (pushing from behind by hand), still missed the first lap.

As for tripping a sensor before race starts, that can't be the issue neither as there is no power to the track, gantry or sensors until the race starts.

I've tried to test the .06 beta on a second pc so not to stuff up the racing computer and the .06 beta has failed three times, it installs fine, it loads the database and splines fine, I can select a default installed race profile and the Practice profile, click Start at which point RC errors out and terminates and creates the debug log files, I've even copied the RC configuration from the working RC computer to the test computer following Dave's FAQ on this, which I knows works as I've performed this without issue, same thing, RC errors out, debug files created and terminates.

I am going to try installing the full .14 release and then perform the .06 beta install on top to see if that works.

 

Johnno

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26 minutes ago, Johnno said:

Once I provided the debug files Dave was instantly able to see something amiss, bloody fast response times Dave, way to go mate.

In testing last night and today the bug appears (for myself at least) even when a race is started with no warmup laps, no items near or under the sensor, I even checked my sensor and gantry alignment with the painted line on the track and they pickup about 5mm into the painted start line so they are aligned very nice.

I've even placed the cars 100mm back from the start line and sensors, started the countdown, track power cuts in at which point I waited a full five seconds before moving the car (pushing from behind by hand), still missed the first lap.

As for tripping a sensor before race starts, that can't be the issue neither as there is no power to the track, gantry or sensors until the race starts.

I've tried to test the .06 beta on a second pc so not to stuff up the racing computer and the .06 beta has failed three times, it installs fine, it loads the database and splines fine, I can select a default installed race profile and the Practice profile, click Start at which point RC errors out and terminates and creates the debug log files, I've even copied the RC configuration from the working RC computer to the test computer following Dave's FAQ on this, which I knows works as I've performed this without issue, same thing, RC errors out, debug files created and terminates.

I am going to try installing the full .14 release and then perform the .06 beta install on top to see if that works.

 

Johnno

John I would have thought that you do actually have power to both the track and the sensors prior to race start. When cars are lined up during the countdown for the start of the race you have power to the lanes and power to the sensors.

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Quote

 

Can I suggest that you try powering up the gantry (IR or actual lights) and leaving on so the light source is on the sensors before the track power comes on.

There may be a very slight delay once the track power relay is activated and the light source coming on and the sensors detect it as a lap count.

 

 


Phil

 

Hobart Miniature Car Club

 

Tassie Resins

 

Email

 

 

 

 

 

 

Logos%2016_17.small_zpswkcwjf0q.jpg

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Second week of trialing at the Club using Dave's fix it version 1.14.0.7.

I reckon he's fixed it :-)

We've had no cases of missed laps on the starting heat for any of the race divisions.

No side effects either from the version.

Many thanks for the quick action Dave.

 

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So everything is going great with the .7 release? I've been playing around with it and appears to be all good though I've not yet had a proper race event per say..

Not overly concerned if the reported  bug has been cleared more about operability. 

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