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Sideways and Slot.it GT3 setups

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I have been asked to share some details on how I set up my Sideways Lamborghini, as compared to the standard setup which I have tuned in my Sideways BMW M6. So I thought best to share for the benefit of all.
I am not the best builder in our club, let alone across forum. I MAY be the untidiest and the roughest, a badge of grunge that I wear with pride. But my cars go "well enough" to be in the mix at our weekly club race nights.

The M6 using stock componentry
M6-2.jpg

Front tyres, stock, glued and trued not coated. They will need it as they feel a bit tacky.
Front axle, height set with grub screws.
Braid - standard. Sideways used their really soft braid on my model of this car.
About 3 grams lead near the guide to keep the nose down. None anywhere else.
Pod - I have inserted 0.5mm thick soft spacers between the underside of each side pod-screw post and the top of the chassis. 
Pod screws set with almost no visible slop, JUST off tight so it doesn't flex off the chassis. Maybe 0.1mm gap.
This is to absorb shock forces from the torquey motor and bumps on the track. It also raises the pod 0.5mm thus lowering the ride height.
Rears, glued and trued. I have tried Sideways Hi-Grip Soft, NSR Ultragrip, Slot.it G25, and N22. All have had a dose of black-arts sauces.
There is only about a 0.1 second a lap spread between the 4 tyre sets on my track, I forget which feet it has on it at present.
Body screws - changed to a different half thread M2.1 x 7mm screw which suits my screwdriver, and have fitted 1mm soft spacers instead of metal ones to cushion the body movement.
Body, not showing from above, but I have nicked another tip from ChrisGuyW, and mounted little blocks of soft foam rubber inside the middle of the body, JUST clear of the chassis, so the body has rock but a limitation of rock for loading the outside tyre on corners.
Spoiler - changed to a soft rubber one for club racing. Original stored !!

I have been swapping around the wheel/tyre sets between this, the Lamborghini and my Slot.it Maserati these others both being sidewinder.

maserati007.jpg
The Maserati is markedly un-fussy, and runs pretty much the same regardless of which shoes it is wearing.
In each case the O.D. of the final tyre setup has slight variation which affects final gearing. With the Maserati, I have swapped spurs going up or down a tooth to compensate as needed.
It always feels slightly big and lumbering and heavy, despite being quite a light setup in reality. The lead is only 0.8mm thick, maybe 5 grams per visible slab.
But it stays in the slot and is very predictable to drive right to the limit, with no bad habits from day one. I haven't had to do much to this car at all.
Body screws - changed to a different half thread M2.1 x 7mm +10mm screws which suit my screwdriver, and have fitted 1mm soft spacers instead of metal ones to the screws to cushion the body movement
Note: The Maserati has a 3 screw body mount - two at font. I like this for setting the amount of body float.

I haven't done anything else to this car, and it is running very good times on my track.

The Lambo is a bit more picky, it wants lots of grip to stop the heavier setup below.

The Lambo has been converted to sidewinder, and up-powered to a ScaleAuto 25K S--can
To run it in our local GT3 class I would have had to use a Shark 22, a Slot.it MX16, a ScaleAuto 20k, or the stock "baby" Raptor/King
So this setup is actually for our GT1 class
And yes, it has been modified a fair bit.
I replaced the chassis with a hard one, roughly sprayed so the red doesn't show when body is fitted.
About 8 grams weight at the guide - I did that right back at the started, and could possibly reduce this now.
Another 10 grams in the pod, I need to play with reducing this.
Pod - I have inserted 0.5mm thick soft spacers between the underside of each pod-screw and the top of the chassis. 
        - I am thinking that with this amount of power, I should swap out the standard 0.5mm offset pod, for a ball race version, as they eliminate the       
          possibility of 0.02mm tolerance between axle and gimbal bush. 
Ergal 12 tooth Pinion, nice and quiet.
Spur - It is showing a 36 tooth. I had a 32 tooth in it, but felt I lacked brakes. I put in the 36 tooth in it yesterday as an experiment ..... it has too much braking now. I need to split the difference to a 34 tooth for my track. The 36 would work on the tightest track in club, the 32 or a 33 on our largest and most open track - Thunder Road.
Tyres, again, it has had a try with Sideways Hi-Grip Soft, NSR Ultragrip, Slot.it G25, and N22. I like it best with the N22 and the Hi Grip. The G25 were very smooth, but I felt it lacked bite under brakes.
I have just fitted a set of NSR 20x12 Extremes which are a bit of a pig to true, but have even more bite and grip. I may stay with these.
Body screws - changed to a different half thread M2.1 x 7mm screw which suits my screwdriver, and have fitted 1mm soft spacers instead of metal ones to cushion the body movement
Spoiler - changed to a soft rubber one for club racing. Original stored !!
Basically, I still have some development to do on this car as it is still a little off the GT1 pace.


lambo001.jpg

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Walks upright Unaided  *  Ties Own Shoelaces  *  Can Mispronounce Own Name In Five Languages  *  Mostly Aims Rattle Cans Away from Self
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Thanks for sharing.  i have a 25 shark in mine (club rules) in my lambo.  I did play around with weight setup.  I have front similar to you, the rear i found the weight worked better having some also on the chassis just in front of motor.  Body screws i love the 7mm sloting plus screws

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Those maseratis are huge in real life.  Was much larger than my slot.it mclaren lmp which is not exactly small.  I wonder if the Skyline GTR will be very similar to the maserati

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18 hours ago, SlotsNZ said:

I
The Lambo has been converted to sidewinder, and up-powered to a ScaleAuto 25K S--can

Pod - 
        - I am thinking that with this amount of power, I should swap out the standard 0.5mm offset pod, for a ball race version, as they eliminate the       
          possibility of 0.02mm tolerance between axle and gimbal bush. 
 


 

Hi Mark, Replacing/modifying the "self aligning" bushes in any pod is a good idea for a couple of reasons........1/ self aligning also means "self unaligning" , and , 2/ in order for the bush to move /align in its carrier, there must be some room for the bush to move, so some "slop" is present...(as you have found out/described above).  While this will not really be felt on plastic tracks (inherently rough/bumpy), it is much more apparent  on wood tracks, and is magnified as you up the motor power/grip.

There are a couple of options............

1/ Glue in the spherical bushings.........You can use a dremel disc (if you have steady hands) to slightlly open the slots between the "fingers" that hold the bushes.......install the bushes/axle, and using a toothpick etc., put a few drops of CA into the slots.

Notes.....

You should always install a motor into the pod before installing/gluing any bushings, as the motor can distort the bushing uprights.

Use the new(er) sintered bronze spherical bushes from Slo-it, instead of the older solid brass/bronze ones.

On any pod with spherical bushes (whether glued or not).....take a few thou. off of the outside face of the "fingers",..enough to expose the outer face of the bush. This will ensure that your wheels/spurs/spacers, run on a smooth flat surface....this will improve precision, and, reduce friction.

 

Below is a typical pod with spherical bushes just popped in.............you can see that the face of the bush is recessed (and clearly not even), which will result in wheels/gears etc. rubbing on the plastic fingers of the pod.

 

DSCN4314-copy.jpg

 

I have used a file/dremel disc etc. to remove a few thou. off of the plastic fingers, leaving the edge of the bush exposed........much less friction, and more precision when setting lateral axle movement. The slightly raised portion of the bush also makes a very handy "fence" should you wish to glue the bushings in place.

DSCN4319-copy.jpg

 

2/ Replacing the  spherical bushings

You can certainly use ballraces in place of the spherical bushes, but, it is my experience, that quality does cost a bit, and cheap ballraces are far worse than a good quality oilite. 

Cheap ballraces, have poor quality components, and invariably have far less precision than oilites,.....they also do not hold oil, like a sintered bushing, so do require some constant care/maintenance/oiling, so, far from ideal for long proxy type events. (This applies to the cheap ballraced motors you can buy...if they are cheap, they are cheap for a reason !!)

So if you want to invest a few dollars ($10/15 per ballrace) go right ahead, if not, you will be much better off with a pr. of quality single flanged oilites for $2/3 a pr.

 

Cheers

Chris Walker

 

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Thanks Chris for the usual sage advice and time to post pics for all.
Some of us would fell less shamed by our poor slot-hygiene if you used examples immediately AFTER they have just returned filthy from a lengthy proxy series :lol::ph34r:
Being aware of spacers actually running against the plastic claws, and knowing it is "a potential issue" as the plastic wears, I SHOULD have considered shaving the claws on stock pods, but hadn't.
- Another point to add to the "basic tuning toolkit"...........

Locally at HBMRC club, we do tend to glue the gimbals into the pod with the motor running on low volts, and use a toothpick to push a little glue into the gaps between the claws.
Fortunately I am probably past having much with the brass gimbals. 
As that bond takes effect, you can often actually hear the rotating mass smooth out, and "sing" as one inter-parts movement is eliminated. If the gimbals are fractionally out of alignment for any reason, the slop is taken up, but it does mean the axle is running against partial surface area. But for club sprint racing, longevity is past "use by date" for most cars I guess.

I have used 3/32nd ball-races from one RC supplier in south China in years gone by which were good, and from another that were "not-so-good".  I think I dumped a dozen pairs.
I have found the Slot.it ones pretty good, no slop, nice free rotation. I tend to oil after installation, then get  flat washers firm against the open surface like a pair of thrust washers to minimise entry of any foreign particles. 

I have a couple of cars running on the Professor Motor oilites, but by choice, especially for higher powered cars, I feel the ball races give a better result, especially if I have distortion in the pod uprights due to an ill fitting motor.  - E&OE as my experiences are limited.
- Have you noticed motor size differences between brands when it comes to fitting into Slot.it (or other brand) pods? 
It seems the Scale-Auto SC-008 and SC-009 20k/25k  S-can motors are a tad bigger than Slot.it and Shark motors, and do cause some distortion. But I like their rpm to torque ratio, so I work around it.   [In another life I would have had a 9v battery wired backwards into my controller for age old "cheater braking" ]  

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Walks upright Unaided  *  Ties Own Shoelaces  *  Can Mispronounce Own Name In Five Languages  *  Mostly Aims Rattle Cans Away from Self
 My Track Oakland Raceway V2     Our Club  HMBRC     

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We were running GT3 at our local club last night, so I dutifully pulled some cars to decide which to run, preferring the new Sideways BMW M6 above.

But I wasn't happy, as although it was fast, it still had a little shudder, especially under hard acceleration from standing, or out of low speed hairpins.
In line with my butcherous habits above, I whipped out the rear axle, taped the underside of the empty magnet pocket to seal it,  and filled that and the triangular pocket right behind the motor with JB (quick) Weld - the 1 hour cure version.
Then I reassembled minus the rear wheels, and left it running at 2 volts, just to ensure the rear bush uprights were in correct alignment during the setting process.

bracedGT3.jpg

After an hour, I put the wheels back on it, and tested from standing start. All the twist was gone from the pod, and the car was smooth as butter.
I don't ever recall making such improvement with such a simple low tech fix.
More like what we expect on wood with a well setup sidewinder unit - which is mostly the preferred option in our neck of the woods.

SlotMadMac was also giving his the first hitout, having converted his to sidewinder - not sure what motor he used, but guessing a Shark 22?   Mac ? 
We ran almost identical lap times. 

This probably deserves a spot in the "cheap tricks" thread. 

Worth the cost of a half teaspoon of hard set 2-pot epoxy if you have any issues with a Sideways angle-winder in high grip situations.

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Walks upright Unaided  *  Ties Own Shoelaces  *  Can Mispronounce Own Name In Five Languages  *  Mostly Aims Rattle Cans Away from Self
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14 minutes ago, SlotsNZ said:

SlotMadMac was also giving his the first hitout, having converted his to sidewinder - not sure what motor he used, but guessing a Shark 22?   Mac ? 

I ran a Slot It orange bell; sidewinder.


Podiums are for short people.

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Interesting Mark didn't think of that , ive been using plastic of cuts araldited in the same places which cured any shudder , now done all my anglewinders works well.

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2 hours ago, Peter Gunn said:

Interesting Mark didn't think of that , ive been using plastic of cuts araldited in the same places which cured any shudder , now done all my anglewinders works well.

Done that too, have bent brass rod to run along the back of the motor and onto the top of both axles bushes, used the Slotting Plus "Ninco" axle tubes, anyfink wot wurks eh!
I'm all for finding lazy ways to do things. :ph34r:


Walks upright Unaided  *  Ties Own Shoelaces  *  Can Mispronounce Own Name In Five Languages  *  Mostly Aims Rattle Cans Away from Self
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Anything you can do to make the triangle formed by the pinion, and the rear bushings as stiff as possible (torsionally, and longitudinally) will pay huge dividends........it will........eliminate independent flexing of the rear uprights which will cause axle binding, and chatter,..it will eliminate "axle tramping" which is seen as hop under hard acceleration (this is also seen when a chassis is too soft longitudinally), and it will improve the consistency of gear mesh, which will help with both performance and longevity.

Braces, axle tubes, securing the motor etc. all help, and if you are looking for something quick and easy,  you might  try one of the ScaleAuto RT3 "Red" motor pods............these are the stiffest, best braced, motor pods on the market (to date) bar none..........if you are not using one, try one,... you will notice a significant difference.

 

Cheers

Chris Walker

Edited by Chrisguyw
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Hey Chris
funnily enough, I have one of the new-ish ScaleAuto Audi R8  "R Series" set up for the same class. It has that pod, and is very smooth. I just haven't found the sweet spot in tuning to get it around corners as quick.
In the end, we are still talking about the curse of the ages "The Ninco Hop"    band2.gif  Play it again Sam  animated-piano-image-0008.gif


Walks upright Unaided  *  Ties Own Shoelaces  *  Can Mispronounce Own Name In Five Languages  *  Mostly Aims Rattle Cans Away from Self
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17 hours ago, SlotsNZ said:

Hey Chris
funnily enough, I have one of the new-ish ScaleAuto Audi R8  "R Series" set up for the same class. It has that pod, and is very smooth. I just haven't found the sweet spot in tuning to get it around corners as quick.
I

Keep on tuning Mark !!!,....I can tell you that whatever issues may exist with the R8, you can certainly eliminate issues with the pod.

 

Cheers

Chris Walker

Edited by Chrisguyw

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5 hours ago, Chrisguyw said:

f you are looking for something quick and easy,  you might  try one of the ScaleAuto RT3 "Red" motor pods............these are the stiffest, best braced, motor pods on the market (to date) bar none..........if you are not using one, try one,... you will notice a significant difference.

Thanks for that tip. 


Podiums are for short people.

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Hello to all the 'Sideways Tuners'.

As well as the Scaleauto 'red pod' option  mentioned by Chris Walker, Sideways themselves make their own angle-winder 'red pod'  that is claimed to be stiffer than the standard item.

Unlike their standard pods the red-pod is a one-piece moulding with an offset of .700 - there  is no option to change the offset as is the case with the standard pod set-up.

For me the advantage of the Sideways item is that I can actually buy the part in Australia, and have fitted them to my Lancia Montecarlo and Miller Mustang chassis.

Do they perform better than the standard item? As I have very few opportunities to test and compare cars I can't offer a measured opinion but based on Chris's technical explanations they should do.

As a regular participant in the Worldwide Chat I regularly find myself watching with envy in regard to the equipment that enthusiasts in the Northern Hemisphere have access to.

Den

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Oops!

If I'd looked back to the start of this thread I would have seen that Mark was actually using one of the red Sideways pods.

Den

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12 minutes ago, big den said:

Oops!

If I'd looked back to the start of this thread I would have seen that Mark was actually using one of the red Sideways pods.

Den

He certainly is Den, but,...it is considerably less stiff than the Scaleauto RT3 "red" pods.........far less critical on plastic, but, very noticeable on wood.

 

Cheers

Chris Walker

Edited by Chrisguyw
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On 4/17/2021 at 6:03 AM, SlotsNZ said:

Hey Chris
funnily enough, I have one of the new-ish ScaleAuto Audi R8  "R Series" set up for the same class. It has that pod, and is very smooth. I just haven't found the sweet spot in tuning to get it around corners as quick.
In the end, we are still talking about the curse of the ages "The Ninco Hop"    band2.gif  Play it again Sam  animated-piano-image-0008.gif

@SlotsNZMark I'd love to be able to buy the scaleauto ready to run chassis kit for my builds and get away from the HRS2 kit. I really think they are a better option however no one in OZ sells them and I also noticed that Pendleslot have no more stock.

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I don't recall the unit, but if it is angle-winder, there would be very limited market outside of the plastic track world on the continent.
Do you recall the product code - The ScaleAuto product list is a spreadsheet about the size of the calculation for the meaning of life
- which is 42, or 56, or something similar.  (Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy. "I KNEW there was something fundamentally wrong...." )
I would have sold 10 of every sidewinder complete rolling HRS unit, to 3 of the inline and 1 of the angle-winder, just to give you an idea.
I imagine Armchair are the same. 


Walks upright Unaided  *  Ties Own Shoelaces  *  Can Mispronounce Own Name In Five Languages  *  Mostly Aims Rattle Cans Away from Self
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19 hours ago, SlotsNZ said:

I don't recall the unit, but if it is angle-winder, there would be very limited market outside of the plastic track world on the continent.
Do you recall the product code - The ScaleAuto product list is a spreadsheet about the size of the calculation for the meaning of life
- which is 42, or 56, or something similar.  (Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy. "I KNEW there was something fundamentally wrong...." )
I would have sold 10 of every sidewinder complete rolling HRS unit, to 3 of the inline and 1 of the angle-winder, just to give you an idea.
I imagine Armchair are the same. 

@SlotsNZ Mark don't get me wrong the HRS2 chassis kit is a ripper. I have used over a dozen in the last 4 months. Interesting I've used 2 sidewinders and the rest have been inline. The inline gives you that little bit more room width wise to throw some bigger feet under it. 

Just a side note I use the ch57b mounts on most builds that allow for them. 

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Hi guys - thanks for confirming the identity of that ScaleAuto unit.

Unfortunately the SC-6900 is now deleted from the ScaleAuto range.
They do still have SC-6901 starter kits available to distributors (link below is their retail shop in Igualada.) - You may be able to get your local pusher to source through the Oz agent.
https://www.criccrac.com/tienda/product/505-sc-6901-chasis-montecarlo-ajustable-en-kit

 

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Walks upright Unaided  *  Ties Own Shoelaces  *  Can Mispronounce Own Name In Five Languages  *  Mostly Aims Rattle Cans Away from Self
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Bump for this topic.

 

I only got the sideways lambo, but seen the M6 runs quite good.  Due to funds, am considering a ford GTE chassis body when they release it.  Im guessing from a marketing strategy they will do what they did with the lambo.  White kit first, then liveries.  Body and chassis next, bit more of a wait then the hard chassis we wood racers like.........

 

Any more tips on sideways GT tuning ?

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25 minutes ago, r377 said:

I only got the sideways lambo, but seen the M6 runs quite good.  Due to funds, am considering a ford GTE chassis body when they release it.  Im guessing from a marketing strategy they will do what they did with the lambo.  White kit first, then liveries.  Body and chassis next, bit more of a wait then the hard chassis we wood racers like.........

 

Yep that's right. They have a limited number of GTE white kits they are offering to distributors at present, then a further production in a couple of months - but Chris (of Sideways) has been teasing us for about 2 months, as he has been handing out many, many white kits to his inner-ish circle of tuners and top decorators, who have been making up liveried cars, which then turn up in jealousy creating facebook posts.
Check with Armchair, they may have some very close.

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Walks upright Unaided  *  Ties Own Shoelaces  *  Can Mispronounce Own Name In Five Languages  *  Mostly Aims Rattle Cans Away from Self
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