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aussieslotter

Scorpius Wireless revolutionary braid disc decoder for SSD

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Hi. Guys

The intention is to test ID recognition of cars at varying speeds.

Firstly I will start around 8.5 m/s and go from there, probably 10 then 12.5 m/S

First step install the Arc Pro powerbase, remove the carp factory power supply and add a lab power supply, regulated, 0-30A/0-30VDC adjustable. 


Next stage to check ID recognition. 

 

Rick

 


www.scorpiuswireless.com

The original wireless digital system that GRUNTZ! :)

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The Hornby 4A PSU is Carp? Really?

LOL

Meanwhile...

Remember the ARC PRO detects whether 1 PSU is in play or 2... and then sets the current trips appropriately to avoid risk of sustained system overload.

I find a single Hornby 4A power supply adequate for accelerating a NSR-F1 with Evo King 50k rpm motor ... reaching a measured track speed of 9.5m/s. Not too shabby for a toy-level PSU.

 

Anyway... dont forget the double PSU sensor and the current sensing (in series) resistors.

Watching with interest ;)

 

c

 

Edited by C-Type

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Ok results:

Well it counts laps.

But what lap, when and time?

The BLE and Hornby protocol can’t keep up to the loop. This unit truly is toy level.

Hmmmm maybe the Arc Pro has a minimum lap time.

Delays appear up to 2 seconds!

So dragstrip here we come!

Power supply is fine for normal use. However I need more than 15V plus the ability to constantly tune speed using the voltage knob. Mandatory.

Anyway I’m used to seeing real rock solid time data on the screen on milliseconds with Scorpius. So a big disappointment here with the Hornby product. 

The Arc Pro will still be good for one at a time passes. Ie dragstripn....But I’ll need to use a Scorpius chip in parallel to use my existing speed trap hardware and firmware with wireless telemetry 
 

 

Rick 

 

Edited by aussieslotter

www.scorpiuswireless.com

The original wireless digital system that GRUNTZ! :)

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Hi aussieslotter,

You are quite correct... the Hornby BLE protocol uses a round-robin sequence to update on new laps so there is a indeed a delay... however lap times themselves are reported accurately... its simply a reporting delay... and the timing is of order you mention... the problems occur if the circuit lap time is less than the round robin cycle time.

Many of us had the conversation back in Feb 2018 when Hornby made the BLE protocol available... the answer is 6 x 300ms i.e. 1.8 seconds. 2018 link:

https://www.slotforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=174370&p=2072514

I think you were a contributor to that debate?

Anyway this appears to  rule out the use of your vertical loop for high speed trials with the ARC PRO as lap sensor.

 

c

Edited by C-Type

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As a slight distraction and only for pure pure fun... the answer to the question of speed is pi !!!!

So now the question?

What is the maximum car speed that can be reliably measured using aussieslotters vertical loop and an ARC PRO powerbase using its round-robin comms protocol?

Assume a standard positioning of the IR LED and both S/F and pit exit sensors fitted in their standard configuration.

Circumference = pi x d

where d = diameter = 1.8m

t = Minimum time for lap reporting = 1.8s (from ARC PRO BLE protocol).

now max speed = circumference/t

= pi x d / t = pi x 1.8 / 1.8 = pi

so the answer is pi !

QED

i.e. 3.1415926 m/s

Interesting?

c

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by C-Type

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I guess because the time and diameter cancel each other out leaving Pi.

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www.scorpiuswireless.com

The original wireless digital system that GRUNTZ! :)

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Ok test results. 
I tested the hardest case scenario. With the LED in the plate plate area and 4mm trimmed of the trailing edge of guide. A segment of the plate as removed to allow the LED full view of the photo transistors embedded in the Scaley Arc Pro lap counter track piece....first up on ID6 then ID1.
On ID1 I was able to get 100% reliability on ID1 at 7.5m/s but only 0.5m/s for ID 6

I moved the LED into the chassis quite a distance towards the rear of the chassis and got much better results. Still not 100% actually. I get the impression the lapcounting on ID6 is not as robust as previous model power bases but I could be wrong.

So what’s acceptable? I’m going to say 8.5m/s. Sure we can ask for more but is it going to happen?

So at 0.5m/S this concept cannot work as it falls well short of the required 8.5m/s ....at this stage ....in my opinion. 

So on with the current Scorpius F1 chip (firmware is nearly complete) and new SSD project I will announce shortly. 

I really hate giving up on this project but the way the Arc Pro system is designed it doesn’t accomodate this sort of third party development. 
 

Rick 
 

Edited by aussieslotter

www.scorpiuswireless.com

The original wireless digital system that GRUNTZ! :)

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Interesting...

ID1= 4 timeslots

ID6 = 9 timeslots

So if you get a max speed of 7.5m/s on ID 1...

For ID6 that should correspond to...

7.5 x 4 / 9 m/s

= 3.3m/s

I am genuinely puzzled you got the answer 0.5m/s.

 

c

 

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Just one further thought from me... when the ARC PRO was launched a number of users found the system was incompatible with ICP v3.3 reflashed SSD decoders. No ones fault whatsoever - just an evolution from two different starting assumptions. ICP v4.0.1 was updated to bring the two into perfect alignment. If you are only seeing 0.5m/s on ID6 but all other IDs function correctly I would suspect you are running a SSD decoder on an earlier version of ICP. Is that a possibility?

c

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I find actual testing over theoretical numbers is the preferred  method.

All the other IDs are proportionate to ID6. ie lower IDs ok 

Even at 3.3m/s its not going to cut it.

All standard firmware used.

Big difference to 24 car IDs counting 10,000 laps at 10m/s with 100% success rate. It really reinforces the comparison of a professional system over a toy system. 
 

So onwards we go.

Placing the chip in the guide or on top of the guide doesn’t interest me nor my idea so that won’t be our goal. I see no advantage and actually see hassles with any guide project. Logic is if I need to remove shell and place LED on the chassis there really is no advantage and two lots of wires would be messy. 
 

More soon on an exciting new SSD project.

 

Rick 

Edited by aussieslotter

www.scorpiuswireless.com

The original wireless digital system that GRUNTZ! :)

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Hi assieslotter, is the idea here really that you are thinking of using the disk decoder  concept with the Scorpius ecosystem? i.e.  photosensor in the blade/braid plate? Might be easier and less reliant on other Companies’ hardware?

c

Edited by C-Type

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59E25B81-3C7B-488A-933A-CAA4D5CE2AE4.jpegJust playing around.

The more we delve into it. The problem is the requirement of 4 diodes for AC. ( In a flat space) And that alone takes space. 
The other issue is the slot cut out. It’s a huge chunk of real estate where tracks cannot cross. 
And the third issue the circular shape, meaning rectangular and square mean wasted real estate along the outside edge. 
Custom making a guide.... hmmm....it’s possible but I need to see the advantages over installing a nano chip or any chip as per the normal method.

And a LED in the guide or plate won’t be Arc Pro compatible regardless. I’m looking for a no exceptions compatible solution. ie works with all Scalextric digital products, no mods or 3rd party firmware upgrades.
DPR cars are already quite easy to change. No need to remove shell or use soldering iron. 

It’s a fun project, but there’s limits in what we have available to work with.

Today we had another look but for now it remains on hold while we look for smaller diodes.

So now back to complete firmware on the F1 chip.
 

Rick
 

Edited by aussieslotter

www.scorpiuswireless.com

The original wireless digital system that GRUNTZ! :)

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Question: 

After fitting the IR LED into the Scalextric guide blade assembly in the above experiment, was the guide blade capable of rotation?

I only ask because it looks like the 3mm hole goes through both the moving part of the guide assembly as well as the triangular chassis attachment point? if so the LED would act as a locking pin... right?

Maybe I am missing something?

c

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good stuff Rick ...differentiating by integration :thumb:


Spaghetti Mess = More Stress. .

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7 hours ago, C-Type said:

Question: 

After fitting the IR LED into the Scalextric guide blade assembly in the above experiment, was the guide blade capable of rotation?

I only ask because it looks like the 3mm hole goes through both the moving part of the guide assembly as well as the triangular chassis attachment point? if so the LED would act as a locking pin... right?

Maybe I am missing something?

c

Yup it’s pinned straight.


www.scorpiuswireless.com

The original wireless digital system that GRUNTZ! :)

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I am still trying to get my head around how that Hornby C7005 came to fail.

My take, if it failed when stationery is that the motor drive MOSFET must have received prior damage leaving it permanently on or partially on. Putting it stationary on the track of course applies the brake MOSFET. So a bit like taking a real car, putting into gear and applying full brake and full throttle at the same time.

I just wonder if a pinned/locked guide blade contributed to earlier driving damage to the decoder? (and especially the motor MOSFET?). With the guide blade assembly unable to rotate it may jam on XLCs and certainly would struggle on R2s and hairpins. Motor overload maybe?

 

c

 

Edited by C-Type

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Lol nah. 
7005 s#!t itself because.... well because it’s a 7005. Was only bench tested on straight track section. Motor most likely the blame. New motor though.

Chip was playing up the moment I put on track. Intermittent.

LED Install proof of concept only.  Loop has no bends or XLCs.
 


www.scorpiuswireless.com

The original wireless digital system that GRUNTZ! :)

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Yes, the silicon diodes used in the C7005 are only rated at 1A... far less than a state-of-the-art Scorpius decoder. Had it not failed on the test bench - it certainly would have struggled at speed on the steep hill climbs you had in mind for it. For heavy duty SSD applications the C8515 rev H is the best route if you want to stay stock... it has 3A rated components (Schottky diodes and MOSFETs) so more-or-less on a parr with Scorpius decoders. That makes me wonder have they have ever been tested side-by-side? Top Gear style?

Meanwhle... I am a huge fan of the vertical loop and the pure craftwork that has gone into its production. Its fast and, IMHO, truly awesome.

c

 

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Good to see Hornby use Scorpius spec diodes and fets.

The loop was fun to build. I get to use my carpentry skills and of course all the Makita tools.

Ill be installing a C7042 SF sensor into the loop soon a long with Scorpius and Carrera lap count hardware. I can add a magnet for Oxigen and eventually SCX.

So I’ll be able to test any new chip develop with up to 5 systems at will quickly and efficiently, saving time and speeding any related project up.

I have 8515 decoders ready to use also.

 


www.scorpiuswireless.com

The original wireless digital system that GRUNTZ! :)

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Sounds excellent. The Carrera IR sensor arrangement will be great, too, for SCX-A.

 

Looking forward to the cross-system comparisons at vertical-loop warp-speed.

c

Edited by C-Type

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Revised state of the art nano board design and innovation plus.

Will it be possible.....?

Enjoy.

 

9F75A899-CC34-488F-B409-990DF281F6DA.jpeg

Edited by aussieslotter

www.scorpiuswireless.com

The original wireless digital system that GRUNTZ! :)

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Squeezing every 1/10th we can.

Version 6.

92A664CA-C9B9-4344-8151-A52002554E2B.jpeg

Edited by aussieslotter

www.scorpiuswireless.com

The original wireless digital system that GRUNTZ! :)

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