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Caddo

Slot It N22 tyres

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Hi all,

We race 1/32 non mag on smooth timber with rubber tyres.

Has anyone found an equivalent to Slot It N22 tyres?

Rgds

Caddo

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Ultra grip - and even Supergrip which come as standard on NSR cars and are shore 22, have very good grip, but require more care when truing.

A closer match would be Sideways Hi-Grip.

The medium is supposedly the equivalent at 22 shore, but I don’t get as much grip. 
The “soft” at 18 shore is pretty close to N22 for truing and on track.

HG1S is the size of 1171N22

HG1SW the size of 1172N22

But having just set up 2 cars on N22, I don’t think anything else combines the grip and the ease of truing. It is a bit of a beggar that they won’t be made anymore.

Hopefully Armchair have stocked up with plenty to last a while.


Walks upright Unaided  *  Ties Own Shoelaces  *  Can Mispronounce Own Name In Five Languages  *  Mostly Aims Rattle Cans Away from Self
 My Track Oakland Raceway V2     Our Club  HMBRC     

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Hi Caddo. Had not heard about N22 supply but locals seem to have had problems with recent batches. They true up as normal but are well past their best after a couple of meetings. My experience is just the opposite and have run them for years.

Re replacement the late John or FPR Adelaide used what he described as a BRM N22 equivalent.  They trued up OK but he said they needed to be run for about 300 laps. Have tried some but not sure about comparison.

As NZSlots has said NSR Ultra and Supergrips are really excellent especially on their Classic cars.

Regards Chas Le Breton (charlesx)

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Thanks guys

We have also had issues with recent batches of N22's, delaminating and splitting after very little use. 

Cheers

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Sideways HiGrip tyres now also unavailable according to Armchair website, maybe they were made by Slot It 

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Hi Caddo.

My N22's are probably from earlier batches but other locals have had problems with both degrading, bad wear and splitting. I only race once a fortnight; although I now have my own track, but I have had a great life time out of N22's. Generally I would count this time in years. Probably helped by our smooth tracks.

If N22's are no longer going to be available then are they going to supply a better brew. We will have to wait and see.

Regards Chas Le Breton (charlesx)

 

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On 12/31/2020 at 9:13 PM, Vinno said:

NSR Ultra Grips are pretty close I always thought. 

Thanks Vince, but too much graining and pick up of marbles compared to N22 for our track surfaces - smooth gloss. NSR Supa Grips have less graining and marble pick up, but also less traction.

I've just purchased sets of N22 from AUS and UK suppliers. Both sets grain/delaminate severely within 20 laps on smooth gloss routed surface, absolutely woeful compared to original N22's.

 

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Have you tried Thunderslot tyres. Have had no problems and grip great. Regards Charles Le Breton (charlesx)

 

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That's very weird Caddo. Can you throw up a pic or two of what is happening to your tyres "before and after" ? 
Do you guys treat, soften, otherwise modify your tyres at all, or run them entirely "dry"

We run on smooth gloss tracks in our local HBMRC club. I have not had any complaint about degradation and I sell packs every week to one club member or another.

I don't recall the last time I had to replace tyres on an already set up car. Be they N22 or NSR ultras or Sideways Hi grip. I tend to think of tyres as "once they're done they're done"
We tend to polish off once they're trued and run them all with a glossy sort of appearance.
If you're into the black arts, NSR tyre oil is the standard, but I think a couple of guys in club may still use WD40 or similar type low viscosity juices.

Overall, I sell many packs a month, which go to clubs around the country, and I have had just one single complaint in the last year, which was different, - of tyres splitting when glued, about 4 months ago.  - And that wasn't from anyone in Charles'club BTW - I have had no complaint from their club. 

At a guess, I moved from using/selling the 2nd to last batch of N18 and N22 production, to the last batch of production around September/October for both sales and my own use - I've probably used 6 or 8 packs since then myself. I haven't ever noticed any differences batch to batch so long as I have been using them.
[And I've been greedy, I stashed away about 450 packs all up, so I have enough to last another 6 months or so.] 
As of right now, there is no replacement product planned at Slot.it..... dang.
And just for interest sake while we're talking tyres, since there has been so much talk about supposed differences between "original" NSR ultragrip, and the new ones marked "EVO"
This just in from Tony, who is the NSR distributor for NZ.  So sounds like it is just a re-branding for marketing sake.

"Dear Tony,

regarding your request, I can tell you there is no substantial chemical difference.

It's just a new product

I wish you a nice day.

Paola De Rosa"


Walks upright Unaided  *  Ties Own Shoelaces  *  Can Mispronounce Own Name In Five Languages  *  Mostly Aims Rattle Cans Away from Self
 My Track Oakland Raceway V2     Our Club  HMBRC     

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Hi SlotsNZ and Caddo.

I have had no complaints myself except 1 split tyre ages ago. My N22 tyres like you Mark last for years whereas an unnamed person said he wore out a set in one meeting just 2 weeks ago. No idea what he does to them 

One of my oldest cars a Porsche 956KH has had the one set since we stopped using silicone tyres. That's a while ago. 'They are getting fairly worn now after many years but still perform well. I would normally expect a set of tyres to last at least 5 years even on a superfast Camaro on our smooth tracks. I can say the same for most NSR  tyres and Thunderslot seem just as good if not better. Thunderslot in my opinion are best out of the box.

Other club members apart from above named have complained of excessive wear but I think it is as much the way they drive. All trued by first mentioned.

I have noticed there is now a replacement for the F22 called G. The F22 was also a good tyre but did tend to ball up a bit. I still use sometimes without problem but find the N22 slightly better. One of the guns reckoned he had a way round this problem but was not prepared to share. This G tyre claims to be unaffected by balling but I have not tried. Perhaps you have Mark.

See you in Wellington Sunday Mark. Regards Chas Le Breton (charlesx)

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The G25 isn't really a replacement for F series - at least not for us wood racers. They are quite slow to true, and they will ball a little while truing if you push too hard. 
But once polished, and with that 25 shore rating, they grip okay, but aren't as forgiving as the F or N series. 

They won't overheat and ball up in use though like F series. I imagine they have excellent wear characteristics for European Enduro racing on Ninco or Policar, and those longer races are probably where they will excel.

Hi Charles - yep see you in Welliewood. I'm driving down Saturday and staying with one of the new guys.


Walks upright Unaided  *  Ties Own Shoelaces  *  Can Mispronounce Own Name In Five Languages  *  Mostly Aims Rattle Cans Away from Self
 My Track Oakland Raceway V2     Our Club  HMBRC     

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Thinking about the graining Caddo is talking about I wonder of it is to do with the summer weather here? I recall years ago when we raced  Slot.it P3 tyres they were great in winter but struggled with graining and picking up debris in summer. 
 

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Gday,

The newer N22's are half as glossy, and only have "Slot It 1172" on the sidewall marking.

The older ones have "Slot It 1172 N22" on the sidewall in a different font, and are much glossier on the surface.  I've had a few pairs sealed in a container in the fridge for a year or two, and they are so much glossier still than the newer sets. 

Quite a few guys in our race club have found the "newer" N22's delaminate very quickly, without any tyre treatment and normal driving on our satin & gloss tracks . The original N22's used to grain slightly with hard driving, but nothing like the delamination we are seeing with the recent batches. 

Just need to work out how to post pics here, is there an easy way?

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Charles, the Thunderslot tyres grip great, fully agree. A track owner in our group tried them on his slightly more abrasive surface in an original Thunderslot car. They were great initially, recording close to lap record times, but after 12 minutes racing were heavily degraded, lap times much slower. I think our track surfaces are slightly less forgiving and more textured/abrasive than your super smooth and glossy surfaces in NZ.

You also mention silicones. I have tried Slot It S1 & S2 compounds, and they are OK, but found them quite hard. Lap times are a couple of tenths slower than Slot It P6's. At least 5/10's slower than N22's. They are very hard wearing though, imagine they would last nearly forever. Think they are so hard not getting much "air rim" effect from the double shoulder rims.

Know of any softer silicones to try?

Regards Caddo

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1 hour ago, Caddo said:

...Know of any softer silicones to try?

Regards Caddo

QUICK SLICKS


Print It, Build It, Race It, Improve It, Repeat...B)

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12 hours ago, Caddo said:

Gday,

The newer N22's are half as glossy, and only have "Slot It 1172" on the sidewall marking.

The older ones have "Slot It 1172 N22" on the sidewall in a different font, and are much glossier on the surface.  I've had a few pairs sealed in a container in the fridge for a year or two, and they are so much glossier still than the newer sets. 

Quite a few guys in our race club have found the "newer" N22's delaminate very quickly, without any tyre treatment and normal driving on our satin & gloss tracks . The original N22's used to grain slightly with hard driving, but nothing like the delamination we are seeing with the recent batches. 

Just need to work out how to post pics here, is there an easy way?

 

Caddo, you/anyone have to have your own hosting location to post pics, then use the "insert other media" 
- But I'll message you an email address you can send some pics to, and I will email you back with file locations on my server so you can get them up here.

If your post is locked - I can still edit it and add the pics to any post # that you want.

The mould had nothing to do with a change in formula or production of the tyres to my knowledge. They just had to make new moulds at a point in time.
So it may just be the level of polish that was on the inside of the new mould that made a visual difference.
I look forward to seeing pics, as I still don't have a concept of what "delaminating" would look like.

Out of curiosity - how do you clean your tyres between heats for instance, especially if you aren't treating - and I ASSUME, they are glued onto the rims and trued.
 

Oh, and seeing your comments about P6 and silicons, - I reckon you should give the G25 a go.

cheers

mark


Walks upright Unaided  *  Ties Own Shoelaces  *  Can Mispronounce Own Name In Five Languages  *  Mostly Aims Rattle Cans Away from Self
 My Track Oakland Raceway V2     Our Club  HMBRC     

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Hi all. My new track is not quite as smooth as the other 2 pot jobs. It has 2 coats of water based acrylic overlain with 2 coats of Carbothane clear matt lacquer. It appears good for smoothing slightly rough tyres but does not appear to affect finished N22 tyres. Appears good surface for NSR Super and Ultragrip, N22 and Thunderslot tyres. All paint was applied with brush. The copper tape is slightly indented and this seems to have worked well also. The dead strip timing system I used (like 1/24th metal tracks) is also performing faultlessly and has now been copied on 2 other tracks in Hamilton and Auckland. I have not tried 1/24th metals cars yet but a short trial proved the lane spacing (110mm) and Gutter (150mm) adequate.

Visitors to our fortnightly race meetings are always welcome but let us know beforehand please. We run anything from 5-7classes depending on numbers present. These include Standard Scaly GT; Aussie V8; Slot-it Group C; Open F1 GP; Muscle Car, Group 5, Open GT. Tyre cleaning sticky tape only. 

Regards Chas Le Breton

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On 2/4/2021 at 8:59 AM, SlotsNZ said:

And just for interest sake while we're talking tyres, since there has been so much talk about supposed differences between "original" NSR ultragrip, and the new ones marked "EVO"
This just in from Tony, who is the NSR distributor for NZ.  So sounds like it is just a re-branding for marketing sake.

"Dear Tony,

regarding your request, I can tell you there is no substantial chemical difference.

It's just a new product

I wish you a nice day.

Paola De Rosa"

That may be, but I can’t get the EVO Ultragrips to polish up and offer the grip that the standard compound offered. It’s so frustrating. I doubt anyone in NZ has trued and polished more Ultragrips than me, so I’d like to think I have good reason to be upset about the change. 


Podiums are for short people.

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Hi Mac. I understand your frustration although I have never tried the EVO tyres. Ultragrips and Supergrips are fine although from my limited experience Supergrips may be better overall.

I am concerned what is going to happen with Slot-it N22 which are apparently going out of production. What will be the replacement? 

Have you tried the new G25 - the F22 replacement.

Regards Chas Le Breton 

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3 hours ago, slotmadmac said:

That may be, but I can’t get the EVO Ultragrips to polish up and offer the grip that the standard compound offered. It’s so frustrating. I doubt anyone in NZ has trued and polished more Ultragrips than me, so I’d like to think I have good reason to be upset about the change. 

We feel the same way with the Slot It N22's, seems like the changes might be linked. Wish the manufacturers would offer up plausible, transparent reasons for the changes.

On a personal level, I welcome a change to slightly slower, lower grip, harder wearing tyres such as Slot It P6 for our group. 

Makes for more side by side racing at a pace that most guys can handle for more laps. 

What stops us doing this is the Slot It P6's have no sidewall ID marking, can this be addressed? Or make them a different colour, easier to scrutineer then

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Caddo,  the issue you describe with N22 has never been reported anywhere else to my knowledge. I use N22 every week on cars, and have the very last production batch in quantity, of which about 150 packs have gone out to customers so far in the last 3 months. 
You didn't reply to my last post on the subject, or send me any pics of what you are describing, so I could share them.

"The mould had nothing to do with a change in formula or production of the tyres to my knowledge. They just had to make new moulds at a point in time.
So it may just be the level of polish that was on the inside of the new mould that made a visual difference.
I look forward to seeing pics, as I still don't have a concept of what "delaminating" would look like.

Out of curiosity - how do you clean your tyres between heats for instance, especially if you aren't treating - and I ASSUME, they are glued onto the rims and trued.
Oh, and seeing your comments about P6 and silicons, - I reckon you should give the G25 a go.
"

Still interested to get some feedback. And as P6 is about that same 25 shore, and has a similar feel to P6, I really would be interested to see how they go on your track.

 

Mac - Last Thursday at yours, I had that Sideways Lambo running around in warmup that I couldn't get grip on your track, that had seemed good-ish on mine. Those were the new Ultragrips. But it was still about 0.15 a lap off where I felt I should be able to get it on mine, and nearly half a second on yours. That was why I ran my old Porsche in the GT1 race.
Queue another 5 hours on the treatment rig over the weekend. That's a total of 7 hours. Times are now close to where it should be at 4.9s and 5.0s on my track, but the tyres still feel firmer than I am used to with Ultras. I wonder if the shore value is higher....... just not as soft as the old ones? 


Walks upright Unaided  *  Ties Own Shoelaces  *  Can Mispronounce Own Name In Five Languages  *  Mostly Aims Rattle Cans Away from Self
 My Track Oakland Raceway V2     Our Club  HMBRC     

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I've run several treatment trials with the new Evo Ultragrips. Best so far seems to be a simple polish with fuelite. I have tried treatment for different times with CRC-226( my preferred oil), and while the tyres look good and run ok for a few laps, the don't get the glossy surface that offers our racing group the best grip, and the tyres ball up, with small marbles forming after 10/15 laps. 


Podiums are for short people.

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4 minutes ago, slotmadmac said:

I've run several treatment trials with the new Evo Ultragrips. Best so far seems to be a simple polish with fuelite. I have tried treatment for different times with CRC-226( my preferred oil), and while the tyres look good and run ok for a few laps, the don't get the glossy surface that offers our racing group the best grip, and the tyres ball up, with small marbles forming after 10/15 laps. 

I think the appropriate word is at this point is "oh TOYOTA" I hadn't even started to try those same things.

So maybe better to do whatever you did to JK's tyres for last week, then rub them across a dusty floor and we'll be in the zone.


Walks upright Unaided  *  Ties Own Shoelaces  *  Can Mispronounce Own Name In Five Languages  *  Mostly Aims Rattle Cans Away from Self
 My Track Oakland Raceway V2     Our Club  HMBRC     

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