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ff050 sidewinder pod for Slot.it chassis mount

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Some of you may have seen the pods Bingo from HBMRC club has been developing recently. 
This is his party, but as he hasn't yet begun a dedicated thread, I will get it started.

This is the idea. Having driven ff050 sidewinders in the MR Slotcar McLaren  F1 GTR when they came out, I was impressed with the tractability of a low powered, low profile motor in my favourite Sidewinder config. 
I badgered Paul until he got this underway, and has since presented me with a series of prototypes based on the CAD below
He has printed these in PLA +
They are very stiff, Paul has had to do a couple of tricks to reduce the risk of splitting along the printed layer lines.
The pod he delivered tonight which I used has had a good try out. 

746uYEm.jpg

Tonight he dropped by a pair of pods fitted with a couple of motors. 
These are the two top pods pictured below. The bottom pod has a tiny ff030 motor fitted.

3pods.jpg

One version of the ff050 pod takes 5.5mm pinion with 17.5mm spur or a 5mm pinion with 18mm spur, the other is for a 5.5mm pinion with 18mm spur.
Small cars often have small OD wheels and the use of a 17.5mm spur just provides a little more ability to get track clearance with low profile wheel/tyre combos.

Use with single inside flanged ball race, oilite or brass bush to retain maximum space for wheels.
I actually fitted this one with a couple of nylon single sided bushes I had lying around from an unkown source. A decent, wide, brass bush would give more surface area for gluing in and avoid what I spilled with thin CYA.... ooops.
The lower profile of the ff030 and ff050 enables these to fit under tray interiors that cannot accommodate a higher standard FC130 motor
Working around the feeding trough call, I fitted the 5.5mm brass pinioned pod +18mm spur into a fairly well worked Sideways Capri, that had been running a standard Flat-6 angle-winder pod. I swapped over the same wheels/tyres at the bask
I initially tried it 9:36, but it was just too low, so I switch to 9:32, and that felt a lot better.

At the moment, the fiddle of getting the motor in place, with the power connection tags sticking out the end, means I had to hot glue it in place.
I actually ran about 20 laps before I realised it was just sitting in place,and the direction of pinion turn, was all that was stopping it popping out....

This test bed car was running 5.5s in standard config.
I quickly matched that with the ff050 motor which is 24.5k  95 g/cm torque, = 5.9 watts, versus the Flat-6 yellow which is 20,500 rpm  200 g/cm = 10.25 watts

Those who regularly use low powered cars will know that a car which is tractable - easy to drive, will often match a much higher powered car with is a bit twitchy. 
But I got the Capri into the high 5.3s after a bit of body screw tweaking. I haven't touched the weight that was used to balance the original setup. 
I was able to do fairly consistent 5.4s and 5.5s. 
I have a few more adjustments for Paul to copy, which I created with a dremel.... Ahem...
This pod is going to be quite useful.
He is also working on inline versions for the ff050 and ff030, to suit very small cars.

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G'day Mark.

I've been following Paul's work with interest and will be in the market for a variety of pods when they are in production.

The quote below came from a Forum member in New South Wales early in 2019 when  I was actively chasing the (now defunct) Devis 3D pods from the USA and referred in particular to the end-bell-drive  (EBD) sidewinder pods for S-Can motors ... like the one that I believe you've loaned to Paul to use as a sample.

"I race with 12 or so blokes that may be interested in converting Scaley chassis pigs, into 3d podded rockets."

The availability of an EBD pod designed to accept snap-in bearings means that most of the Scalextric running gear can be used.

For some time I've been running a Fly Viper fitted with a Shapeways chassis and Devis inline pod that takes the slimline FF050 motor. It goes OK.

The FF050 is now being used in a lot of Scalextric cars as well the recently-arrived Policar classic F1 series. As a driver of Fly F1s trying to keep up with the Policars I can tell you that those slimline motors aren't slouches.

Best of all, some of the FF050 slimline motors are often available for less than $10 which means that you can build up a car for fun or competition at a bargain basement price. Those Forum members who have competed in Tasman Cup Proxy races would be better qualified to comment on the performance of the FF050 motors.

Den

 

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I'm really keen to see a in line version of this pod, 

 

I have too many older Scaley F1 cars here which are in need of this very thing.

 

I'll be keeping an eye out for any further developments

 

Terry

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Hah,  got him here, and he didn't reply to a couple of things.
Den - he is already doing an endbell drive sidewinder for FC130,  - someone else in club had stuck up a hand for that.
Terry - he has also done ff050 inline - not sure about ff030 as yet, but he tells me that is an easy adjustment. Just not sure whether they are at final versions.
I want the online versions for tiny cars too. 

Guys - I'll try and grab other samples at Club Thursday night, and throw some pics up here of the full basket.
Paul can come back to you about availability and price, I'm just the nuisance that keeps putting ideas in his head and poking him with a stick ;)

 

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Nice and neat looking pods there. It would also be great to see someone doing pods for FK-130's (inline or sidewinder). FK130's casings are actually slightly shorter than FF motors although the contacts protrude slightly more but almost exactly the same length including contacts as a FF-050. I know they're not widely used but I've got quite a few that could do with a home.


bram1_zpsfkhrhndv.jpg

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4 hours ago, Wobble said:

Nice and neat looking pods there. It would also be great to see someone doing pods for FK-130's (inline or sidewinder). FK130's casings are actually slightly shorter than FF motors although the contacts protrude slightly more but almost exactly the same length including contacts as a FF-050. I know they're not widely used but I've got quite a few that could do with a home.

I could do them if I had a sample to make the drawing from

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On 9/14/2020 at 8:09 PM, Peter Gunn said:

Now that is interesting especially for the ff motor , when can we buy them ?

Once Mark is happy i can print to order; sounds like they are working for him.

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4 hours ago, Bingo said:

I could do them if I had a sample to make the drawing from

Cheers Bingo ... just thinking about it, the FK-130 could just go in an inline pod made for long can (FK-180) motors, like the earlier Slot.it Boxer pods, as long as there are mount holes in the same place, as the dimensions other than the length are the same. I'd be a starter for some of these then there are options for 2 motor types.

FK-130-boxer-mount.jpg

Edited by Wobble

bram1_zpsfkhrhndv.jpg

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slotcrazy, on 15 Sept 2020 - 7:54 PM, said:snapback.png

 

 

 

- I just ran a test Policar ff-050 sidewinder in a Sideways Capri - only about half the power (wattage) of the flat-6 angle-winder, and easily 0.1 a lap faster on my 65 foot track - and so forgiving to drive.

 

Chris - I am thinking we will mate those ff pods with Professor Motor 3/32 / 3 1/16th Oilites, as a cheap single flange bushing option.

Any thoughts on that idea? 

 

 

Hi Mark, Excellent idea, you will not be disappointed !!thumbsup.gif

 

 I have used FF050 motors in both scratchbuilt and plastic car chassis for quite some time, in inline, sidewinder, and anglewinder configurations. Although they  obviously do not have the pure grunt of the FC130 or FK180 motors, their lighter weight, certainly reduces the "polar moment of inertia", and therefore improves the handling and the transitional response. While on longer more open tracks. the grunt of the 130/180's is tough to beat, on shorter twistier club tracks the FF050 powered cars more than hold their own. (just gear them properly) 

The Policar FF050, is certainly the pick of the litter among the 050's, and, I have used this motor in a couple of recent proxies with very good success.

 

A commercial grade oilite (3/32 x 3/16) offers more precision, and is as free running as any bushing offered by any of the typical plastic car offerings............the Prof. Mtr. oilites fall into this category, and, I use single flanged oilites in all my car/pods.

 

The single flanged bushing also allows (with a simple pod modification) for the option of narrowing the rear end, for those cars with slim rear ends.

 

Cut the "fingers" that hold the spherical bushings, ream the holes to 3/16 and align/glue the oilites.

 

The picture below is an example on an inline...........I needed a very narrow rear end (Austin Healy Sprite), so the flanges were installed inboard..........saved a few precious mm per side.

 

DSCN4318-copy.jpg

 

 

A few examples of the FF050 in various chassis.

 

This car was built for the SCCA proxy 2/3 years back...........you could use an 18K FC130, or, a Policar 050,............the top 3 cars all used the 050.

This has oilites, flanges mounted inboard.

 

DSCN4345-copy.jpg

 

This 050 is mounted in a MRSlotcar sidewinder pod............extremely well balanced !!,.........it has since been replaced with a Policar 050

This 050 sidewinder pod is designed to use a 4.5mm pinion, and a 15.5mm spur

 

 

2011-03-13-18-50-40-copy.jpg

 

This is a Policar in a 3D anglewinder pod from LEB Hobbies. The pod did need a fair bit of work, but this car (built for this years SCCA proxy....050 or 18K FC130) appeared to be the class of the field, until it was postponed after just a few rounds due to Covid.

 

This pod also had the protruding bushing "feelers" removed, and single flanged oilites installed........I needed the extra space, and the oilites just offer more precision.

 

DSCN4466-copy.jpg

 

And an 050 in a scratchbuilt sidewinder,.........again, the motor has since been replaced by a Policar.......one of my best all round cars for club type tracks.

 

2009-12-20-10-38-55.jpg

 

This was posted on another Forum, and Mark asked that I post it here.

 

Cheers

Chris Walker

Edited by Chrisguyw

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A couple of comments on your pod(s) so far Bingo........hope you do not mind !!......they do look good !!

In a previous post, Mark mentioned that for cars with smaller od. wheels/tires, a 17/5 mm spur gives a tad more track clearance for a given rear tyre dia., which is certainly a bonus.........give the space between the rear axle and motor can, you could consider doing a pod with less gap,....one which would utilize a 16.5mm spur (MRSlotcar), coupled with a 5.5mm pinion.

The smaller spur does offer some benefits.........

1/ It allows even smaller rear dia. rear tyres to be used, still with reasonable track clearance. 

2/ For long proxy events, or for those that run their tyres for ages, it allows more wear to occur without track damage

3/ It sits level with the bottom of the pod face, which helps protect the spur in an "off"

4/ Most importantly, for a given rear tyre dia, it allows the use of a smaller dia, wheel, coupled with a taller tyre sidewall, which offers more tyre compression, aiding grip.

All the above points must obviously be measured against any of your club rules !!

For the above reasons, I use only 15.5 or 16.5mm spurs in all my race cars.

 

Cheers

Chris Walker

 

 

 

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