Nsr Tuning Tips - Post Them Here! (Lets Beat Those Pesky Moslers!)

[Shaynus]

Thanks for all the tips and tricks everyone!

 

I was originally going to post this in the patriot chassis thread, but figured that was a bit of a derailment, so I had started a new thread.

 

Chas, I agree with you in that I want to be able to compete with the herd (anyone got a good collective noun for a bunch of Moslers?) with a non Mosler NSR.

 

I am currently (well, lock down aside) campaigning an AMG Merc in our NSR class. Have to run stock chassis (not hard or soft, etc versions) motor, gearing, guide and wheels. Pretty much straight out of the box running gear wise. We mostly run NSR or MJK rubber tyres. (Only allowed OEM or MJK rubber tyres on the track)I see NSR now do different compounds which I may need to look into. Tyre treatment not allowed, but can be cleaned. I use a green brillo scouring pad between races. Was using emery paper, but didn't want to be wasting precious rubber!

This makes setup very important. I'm having trouble with rear traction - it's a bit taily with change of direction & out of corners.

Before you say it, it isn't my trigger finger! :-) At the moment I'm the guy with the target on my back that everyone loves to beat (in a good natured way!) or people expect to be up the pointy end.

I've set the front axle height (front tyres just off the ground),with "no" vertical free play, but still spins freely. Have the motor wires looped near the guide to help re-centering, coated the front wheels with nail varnish, trued the rear tyres and rounded their in and outside edges. Oiled bushes & bearings, etc.

My next "big" job is to heat treat the chassis to get it flat. Never done it before, and don't remember it being particularly warped, but you have to get the basics right, right?

So, how do I get my car to be a world beater? - with out changing the driver!!

[Kevan]

I gave up on NSR's, the best tyres and motors but the only cars I like are the sidewinders...so I race SlotIt's with a sidewinder pod and get round quicker than most (including my) Mosler.

 

So the only advice I can give is - sidewinder -

[mattcrackers]

Have you hot glued the motor in place?

Helps quite a bit with the NSR cars.

[Wobble]

And I wouldn't be in too much of a hurry to scuff up the tyres with a brillo pad between races. Surely the bigger the contact patch the better the grip and a tyre that is close to polished must have the largest contact patch. I true MJK's with 1000 grit and they are as close to polished as I can get them and still no where near as shiny as new ones but they offer the best grip from my experience. For cleaning tyres between races I use a damp kitchen sponge laid on the track and give the rear tyres a few revs on it.

[charlesx]

Hi Shaynus and Kevan.

 

I am no NSR guru (or any other for that matter) as after several months of trying have just got my NSR Corvette going pretty well. My NSR Aston is still a work in progress and have had a lot longer. Both are AW's. At some stage have had both cars within about 0.2secs of Moslers but that gap remains. I tend to get so far then strip everything out and start again. Having a track at home I am sure helps so with my new track nearing completion I will hold my breath. Personally I prefer in-line but have some SW (not NSR) going well to very well.

 

Re MJK I thought they were all urethane. I find I can glue and true and after that they need little work except occasional sticky tape but generally only if track is really dirty. Really good for proxies where personal work is not possible. They also wear very well even on Aussie tracks. Our NZ tracks tend to be very smooth but many Aussie ones have texture because of dusty conditions,

 

Have only just started doing this but I believe NSR tyres after gluing and truing need a little oil to optimise performance. Some people use NSR tyre oil (not goop) but any fine oil will do. I tend to use my sewing machine oil (I am a sailmaker/repairer). Just rub a bit into surface and let it soak in for a while. I then use my water/just a drop of detergent to clean off any surface oil as I do not want to dirty track and affect others performance. I think it depends on what others are using. If running untreated you should stay that way. A bit of trust here as some people can be sneaky.

 

Slot-it N22 are my tyre of choice (F22 also good but they tend to shed balls of rubber sometimes) but after gluing and truing should need nothing more than sticky tap. Truing is quicker if you use some CRC2.26 then clean off afterwards as above. Water/detergent works well too but take a lot longer. BRM tyres can be quite good but according to late John of FPR Aldelaide need to be run in for at least 300 laps.Have just put some on my new Camaro to try. Initially after a few laps and dirty track quite promising.

 

Important when gluing tyres to use glue that does not go off too quickly. After getting them square on hub you can then roll them gently on a flat surface to make sure they are as true as possible. This also speeds up truing process.

 

Front axle it may depend on your rules but usually tyres are required to touch. I like to think too that a little contact may contribute to handling but not sure about that. Independent wheels even better. Some RTR cars come out with these or provide as up-grade.

 

I note you mention sanding. This is generally discouraged except for hard Scaly tyres which need a short buzz before each race meeting. OK for others if nothing else works but generally on fine paper with water at about 9volts so does little more than give extra clean. You can do the same on your track surface but we generally have a little board set-up so you do not get muck on track.

 

Hope this is of some help. Regards Chas Le Breton (charlesx)

[charlesx]

PS Shaynus and Kevan. I note some NSR cars are now coming out with motor screws so gluing in motor may not need doing. As Matt says use hot glue so they are not too hard to get out again. C Le B

[tsmsoccer]

I have had a NSR Mosler for a while and I recently removed the hot glue all around the motor and chassis and went with the motor screw from the chassis into the long can motor

It now runs better than ever

[Shaynus]

What is the difference between the oilite bearings? So far I have found 3 - 4846, 4847 and 4848. Any idea what the difference is, or do people use other brands then NSR?

[Peter Gunn]

Don't have many NSR cars but the ones i have are all good runners , have tried many tyres as i really do dislike the NSR one's had nothing but trouble with them especially the ultras , so using supers when i put them on .

A tyre i have used to great affect has been Nick's yellowdog urethanes , ran them on my mates wood track on the back of the Merc DTM and beat his NSR shod car easily which was a little suprising , the pick up is great speed wise no sliding unless your a nit and the roadholding through any type of bend on his track was great , that's where i made up all the time.

Motor wise don't use any NSR motors currently i have Pirana 25 k ballraced motors in all of the NSR cars now and so superior in every department, so smooth balance seems so good and very quick, also ballraced all the rear axles trouble is i don't think many clubs would let you run these sort of cars not standard, but i don't belong to a club now all gone round here so i can do what i like.

[Chrisguyw]

What is the difference between the oilite bearings? So far I have found 3 - 4846, 4847 and 4848. Any idea what the difference is, or do people use other brands then NSR?

 

Not much !!............the only difference between the 4846 and the 4847 is that the 4846 is for the older 124X motor pod in the "Classic" cars, which had a very small width difference of the plastic on the rear axle uprights, so , the measurement between the flanges of the 4846 is sized accordingly. The 4847 fits everything else. Just to clarify, NSR bushings are not technically "oilites" as they are not sintered, and therefore do not hold oil. For sprint or club racing this is not particularly an issue, as you can check/oil your bushings frequently, but, for proxies with multiple rounds, a "sintered" bronze bushing is the way to go.

 

Folks do use "other" brands, and you will find most experienced racers prefer single flanged "sintered" oilites from the commercial slot world, from companies like, Champion, Mura, Slick 7, Koford etc. These offer the benefits of "Sintering, and are of much better quality (precision) than the stuff made by most plastic car manufacturers. An added benefit is that they cost significantly less. (Single flanged bushing/bearings must be glued into the chassis/pod).

 

A quick word on bushings vs. ballraces...........I and most (all) use ballraces on our high end ( Eurosport, BSCRA, Wing etc.) cars, but these are high precision bits costing wwaayy more than those offered by the mainstream plastic car companies.

 

Mediocre bearings contain cheaply made parts (races/balls/flanges) and many (most) have more slop than an oilite.......this is not the hot tip for quick laps/consistent handling, and unlike a sintered oilite, ballraces do not hold oil, which while not a big deal, do require frequent maintenance/oiling. Similarly, inexpensive ballrace motors contain cheap bearings, with the same issues as cheap axle ballraces.

 

Over the years, it has been fairly well accepted that a well installed/aligned set of oilites will offer no real benefit over ballraces (especially those of average at best quality) other than in the very top level of commercial slot car racing. (Most commercial grade cars still use sintered oilites !!)

 

If your rules allow, try a set of single flange sintered oilites (3/32 x 3/16) from one of the manufacturers listed above, align/glue them properly, and you will be miles ahead (both in terms of performance and dosh outlay ) vs. a mediocre pr. of ballraces. (You will invariably need to "open" the bushing holes in most pods to 3/16ths, but this is quite a quick and easy job).

 

Cheers

Chris Walker

Edited April 26, 2020 by Chrisguyw

[Peter Gunn]

To quote Mr Walker always buy good races i import mine from the USA precision made in either single or double flanged by a engineering company in Texas courtesy of my friends son, never had a failure fit properly beautifully smooth , i just like ballraces always used them from way back.

But there is nothing wrong with a so called oil lite for general use, but again worth getting a good one , like everything else in model car racing if you can spend a little more on better parts , it does pay you back .

[Chrisguyw]

Top quailty sintered single flanged oilites are $1.50 US/pr, and these will out perform any of the mainstream plastic car bushings, and most ballraces. To match this quality/performance, the equivalent ballraces start at $15.00US (and up)/pr., and for the motors/tracks/tyres that most of us use the difference is negligible.........I find more "other" issues with most club cars that come into the shop .

 

Cheers

Chris Walker

[Shaynus]

Does anyone know if any of the Australian slot shops stock good quality oilites?

Will save on shipping and support local businesses. Will just save me ages in trawling web pages.

[charlesx]

Hi Shaynus.

 

Just try the Aussie shops. Possibly ones who deal with 1/24th metal car stuff. Alternatively Hobbies Plus in Palmerston North NZ sell stuff all over the world. The owner is an international racer.

 

Another option - Chris may be able to suggest.

 

Regards Chas Le Breton

[Chrisguyw]

Does anyone know if any of the Australian slot shops stock good quality oilites?

Will save on shipping and support local businesses. Will just save me ages in trawling web pages.

 

Hi Shaynus, I am not sure which Oz shops would be the best to check..maybe ask Mark,...but, I know that Hobbies Plus in NZ has what you need

 

Champion CH711S is a pr. of single flanged sintered oilites 3/32 x 3/16.......these are $2 Oz per pair.

 

They also stock Slick7 3/32 axle spacers...as well as spacers from Cahoza and Koford........stick with the Slick 7's, in the sizes below

 

S7-21 (.005 thou)

S7-22 (.024 thou)

S7- 284 (2.84mm)

 

A bag or so of each size of these spacers will be a good start....the .005 thou. are invaluable for side/anglewinder set ups. They are precision cut/finished, and, are reusable.

 

Hope this helps

 

Cheers

Chris Walker

[mattcrackers]

Does anyone know if any of the Australian slot shops stock good quality oilites?

Will save on shipping and support local businesses. Will just save me ages in trawling web pages.

 

I've purchased 1/32 & 1/24 oilites from Ace Hobbies in Queensland, actually need to get some more.

[charlesx]

Hi Shaynus. I have had a good look around Aussie shops but could not find supplier. See Matt's post however so sounds like your prayers are answered although I had tried ACE previously via there website. Perhaps just a matter of asking.

 

Alternatively as Chris has confirmed Gill Andrews at Hobbies Plus Palmerston North NZ usually has a good range of both oilites and spacers although he mainly caters to 1/24th metal car racers.

 

Regards Chas Le Breton (charlesx)

[ZeGas]

https://acehobbies.com.au/products-listing/product/p8243/category_pathway-108

[charlesx]

Well done ZeGas. I did not try Plalit. I just tried a general search. Regards Chas Le Breton

[Shaynus]

Thanks for all the information everyone!

[ZackM]

Here is what I have done to my NSR Merc. It is currently right up near the front of the US GT3 proxy, at or near track record pace on most of the tracks. I think it is the top NSR in the field, with some of the Scaleauto vettes leading the way.

 

I understand the surfaces can be quite different down there, so I won't say this is going to help you. But there are some things to try.

 

While I think some flex is a good thing, I did find the front of the Merc to be a little too soft. I glued down some .047" piano wire starting front right behind the front axle blocks leading down to about halfway in the pod. This helped a lot with handling, and some of the 3-wheeling the car was prone to for me.

 

I have oillites glued into the pod. IMO, when you get the tires working really well most pods are too flexible in the back. The Sloting plus bushing/tube combos are great, but I was out of time to get one for this build. I laid some .055" wire across the top of the bushing holders, and then glued them in place using the motor for a brace on the front one. Gluing the motor in is a MUST.

 

Wheels and tires on my car are kit standard, just trued and de-grained with lighter fluid one time.

 

I made sure to keep the left/right balance of the car in tact, and only added enough ballast to really lean on the car. I am using a lightweight interior however, so you may need more with a stock one.

 

The car is 83g.

 

At the end of the day...the Mosler if tuned well will probably still be faster. Its just the right shape and weight balance.

 

[Shaynus]

Tuning update:

 

Due to the easing of Covid restrictions here in West Oz, the owner of the local track has started allowing small groups (3 people) in to do some lap time shoot outs. Only 2 lanes used, 15 lap "heats" to set your fastest time. A welcome relief to the slot car drought lately, and a good excuse to blow out the cobwebs. This also meant I had to actually do some tuning to my car!

 

Here is what I've done so far, for better or worse, feel free to let me know if I did anything wrong!

 

1st off I had a go at straightening the chassis. I was a little paranoid that, because of the step in the chassis under the guide post that the guide post may "sag" when heated. To hopefully get around this I ground down an old random guide I had lying around and put that in place so it was flush with the step in the chassis:

 

 

 

Then I placed the chassis on a piece of 6mm plate with small magnets placed on the chassis. I pre-heated the plate before doing so. Covered in boiling water then placed in the oven which was still warm from dinner to cool over night

 

 

TBH, the end result was a bit disappointing as the chassis didn't seem to be much flatter afterwards. Oh well!

[Shaynus]

Next up some chassis enhancements. Big thanks here to ZackM for his earlier post suggestions.

 

I don't have any piano wire, and I don't know of any local stockists. I wasn't going to pile the kids in the car for a 1/2 hr each way trip to the nearest hobby store, the shoot out was the next day, so I had to improvise - small allen keys! (These were from Kingchrome sets i got for the small grub screws, but eventually go sick of them rounding off and finally got some "proper" screwdriver type ones. Sooo much better!) So I glued them in place, along with a small 'joiner" piece placed behind the guide post that I had from another allen key I cut down. I glued the 3 stiffeners to the chassis, and also to each other. I had placed a few small pieces of paper under the center of the chassis, then clamped it down to the steel plate with magnets (similar to when heating it) to pre-load it a little while gluing the allen keys in place.

 

[Shaynus]

Next, thanks to Chris Walker's suggestion I braced the motor pod across the axle bushes. The bushes were already glued in, and I haven't had a chance to track down any oil lites yet, so they will have to wait for me to get a new pod as well.

Once again, allen keys were the answer as to what to use. I cut them to size and glued them in place (one of the 90° ends was used in the preivous post)

 

[Shaynus]

Next: tyres.

 

After previously seeing how rapid the new NSR F1 cars are and how soft their tyres were I decided to get some of those myself for my Allslot F1, but also for my NSR Merc too. I was glad when other forum members suggested them too.

I used shoe glue and a tooth pick to glue them on (1st go at gluing tyres). I wasn't sure of what to to on the back edge where the grub screw is, so I just didn't glue that section of tyre.

 

Then I had a go at prepping them with 3 different coarseness of wet 'n' dry emery paper, soaked in water. One tyre looked like it "blistered" so I stopped as I didn't know what caused it or how to fix it.

 

I put clear nail varnish on the fronts, then gave them a quick buzz when dry.

 

When it comes to setting the front axle, I use axle spacers in the front axle posts so the grub screws clamp onto the spacers which act like bushes. It seems to work ok?