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Chrisguyw

Improving The Mrslotcar 1/32 Patriot Evo Chassis

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In my initial review, (I did post this on another forum, and can post it here if there is any interest) , I did mention a couple of things that I felt held this chassis back from being an "Elite" competition chassis. While it is very good out of the box, especially for the less experienced scratchbuilder (it has a wide range of wheelbase/guide lead / body mount options thumbup.gif) it does not have an adjustable front axle vertical adjustment, and it is torsionally a bit (way) too stiff, which limits ultimate rear tire grip........don't get me wrong. it is quite good, but, everything can be improved wink.png

 

I have not yet remedied the adjustable front axle issue, but have done the mods. to allow for some torsional movement in the chassis...........both these mods. are being addressed on future MRSlotcar chassis releases (it may be a while) , but, in the mean time you can incorporate these if you wish..

 

Cheers

Chris Walker

 

In the first pic. you can see that on the stock chassis, that the guide mount, is part of the front axle carrier/wheelbase adjustment plate, and when bolted snug, as it has to be to secure the guide, the whole chassis becomes very (too) stiff torsionally

 

DSCN4429.jpg

 

 

To remedy that the guide mount plate needs to be cut from the front axle plate and mounted separately and securely

 

In the next pic. you can see the guide plate has been cut and soldered to the base plate....(2 holes in the actual guide mount plate and the 2 different length guide tongue bits allow for 4 varying guide lead dimensions)

 

We can now have the guide solidly mounted, with the ability to add some torsional flex to the front axle/wheelbase plate.

 

DSCN4532.jpg

 

In order to maintain perfect alignment of the front axle holes, I cross braced the front axle plate, before, cutting the guide mount section away.

 

Modified front axle/wheelbase plate...

 

DSCN4533.jpg

 

To achieve some torsional flex in the front axle plate, I used some silicone washers on top of the axle plate, and under the Nylok nuts....these should be adjusted to be snug, but, not tight enough to compress the washers.

 

In a perfect world, it would be nice to have washers above and below the front axle plate, but, without a major re design, this is just not possible.

 

It is hard to see, but the washers are there smile.png

 

DSCN4554.jpg

 

Another little thing with the out of the box chassis......if you wish to use any front tires with less than 19mm dia. there is precious little room under the guide for even thin braid......you will be OK on tracks with a bit of braid recess, but on taped/steel rail tracks it is dodgy. So a quick fix for that is to file/grind the bottom flange of the guide tube a few thou,.....if you take too much, not to worry, as it is easy to add a guide spacer.

 

This pic. is upside down wink.png........the wide flange sits on the top of the guide surface.

 

DSCN4530.jpg

 

 

Modified, the chassis was just over a 1/10th quicker on my track, and more progressive/easier to drive at the limit thumbup.gif

Edited by Chrisguyw

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Hi Chris.

 

Not aware these Patriot cars are available in NZ but plastic ones have never taken off. I have one of the original Mazda MrSlotcar models but it has seldom been used as no class and locals would not let it run with Slot-it Group C. I bought the white kit and I thought I did a pretty good job of paint/decals so must post a photo.

 

Like the look of Patriot. How do they compare with similar Revo, Nono and Plaltit models performance wise.

 

Regards Chas Le Breton (charlesx)

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Hi Chris.

 

I know this is not a Patriot but I think it looks with my fairly plain fantasy livery. One brand that has not really taken off in NZ as Scaly, Slot-it and more recently NSR main ones supported.

Thought you might like a couple of photos.

 

Regards Chas Le Breton (charlesx)

 

PS spoiler has come a bit loose in rough storage box.

 

Mazda-Mr-Slotcar-2jpg.jpg

 

Mazda-Mr-Slotcar.jpg

Edited by charlesx

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Hi Chris.

 

Not aware these Patriot cars are available in NZ but plastic ones have never taken off. I have one of the original Mazda MrSlotcar models but it has seldom been used as no class and locals would not let it run with Slot-it Group C. I bought the white kit and I thought I did a pretty good job of paint/decals so must post a photo.

 

Like the look of Patriot. How do they compare with similar Revo, Nono and Plaltit models performance wise.

 

 

 

Regards Chas Le Breton (charlesx)

 

 

 

Hello Chas, Out of the box, the Patriot Evo. will more than compete with the Revo chassis, but the lack of torsional flex adjustment, puts it a bit behind a well set up Plafit or other "meccano" type chassis.

 

As modified above, it is certainly better, and very close to the "meccano" type chassis, and with even more front end flex adjustments and an adjustable front axle height system, I believe it would be right on the pace.

 

It is heavy (ish) weighing roughly 65/70 gms with an FC130 motor installed, so depending on your track/tires/motor, this may be a good, or not so good thing. On my track, (which does not favour heavier cars) the modified Patriot chassis runs dead even with a very mildly Slot-it Group C car..(both with same tires/motors/gearing.

 

It is a good chassis, with some neat features........it accepts inline/sidewinder/anglewinder motor pods, it has an adjustable wheelbase, adjustable guide lead, and fits a wide range of (2 post) bodies, due to its body mounting design. It will appeal to those who are less skilled scratchbuilders, or for someone looking to put a chassis under an existing body.

 

I believe that well set-up it will be a competitive club racer, but in its current stage of development it will struggle somewhat with the other "elite" chassis on the market.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Cheers

Chris Walker

 

PS The McLaren F1GTR from MRSlotcar is noticeably better in terms of performance than the Mazda.

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Thanks Chris. A good report. When you say 65-70gms I assume that is just rolling chassis. That does not seem too bad. That might make it about 80-85 depending on body. Plastic cars can be pretty good but so many these days get weighted heavily. Do not mind with cars that are just awful like Aussie V8's but seems such a pity with Slot-it and NSR cars.

 

Thanks for tip re McLaren F1GTR. How does it compare with the Mosler. I am currently build a Scaly Maserati MC12 body onto a Mosler chassis for something to do but no idea how it will go.Most of our guys run Mosler's but I like to have something different.

 

Regards Chas Le Breton (charlesx)

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Thanks Chris. A good report. When you say 65-70gms I assume that is just rolling chassis. That might make it about 80-85 depending on body.

 

Thanks for tip re McLaren F1GTR. How does it compare with the Mosler. I am currently build a Scaly Maserati MC12 body onto a Mosler chassis for something to do but no idea how it will go.Most of our guys run Mosler's but I like to have something different.

 

Regards Chas Le Breton (charlesx)

 

Hello again Chas,...........the 65/70 gm. figure is for the rolling chassis, with an FC130 motor installed,....so 85gms. (ish) would be for a complete car............in the ballpark for rubber tyres, but for our club racing (on urethanes) it is just a tad "Beefy".

 

The Mosler is tough to beat for a plastic chassis......make sure you order the "Evo" chassis with the adjustable front axle...this allows proper corner weighting, and is certainly the way to go.

 

As well, if you can find one of the Sloting Plus rear axle tubes/bushings, it also is worth every penny. It mitigates any independent flexing of the rear axle uprights, which result in axle binding and mesh issues.

 

Below is a Mosler Chassis recently built for a fellow racer.......currently the best Mosler in our local area clubs.

The pod also has silicone washers both above and below the pod lugs. This not only reduces vibrations, but, more importantly provides controlled torsional flex, which allows the outside rear tyre to load progressively, improving grip. This will be most beneficial on wood tracks.

 

Cheers

Chris Walker

 

PS The MRSlotcar, McLaren can be tuned to be a very potent car.....maybe not ultimately as quick as the Mosler, but, not very far behind :D

 

DSCN4390.jpg

 

DSCN4391.jpg

 

 

DSCN4407.jpg

Edited by Chrisguyw

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Hi Chris.

Great tips on the Mosler. I was following some of your recommendations on my own Mosler project including the Slotting plus rear tube brace. Unfortunately in filing the tube down on the motor side to get some clearance between the Motor and the tube, I over did it and the right side bearing broke off from the tube. Will have to see if I can solder or epoxy glue it back on but I'm afraid I may have weakened the brace.


Orakei Racer

 

Slow is smooth, smooth is fast!

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Thanks Chris. I am currently trying to get my Thunderslot Lola GT up to speed but probably have to up-grade the motor to succeed. Is getting close however. Is great on corners but gets blasted off on straights. Not much but enough to make a difference. Lola is up to Nelson NZ specs where minimum weight is 80gms. I am not using suspension but that is another option. Any tips appreciated.

 

Regards Chas Le Breton

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Thanks Chris. I am currently trying to get my Thunderslot Lola GT up to speed but probably have to up-grade the motor to succeed. Is getting close however. Is great on corners but gets blasted off on straights. Not much but enough to make a difference. Lola is up to Nelson NZ specs where minimum weight is 80gms. I am not using suspension but that is another option. Any tips appreciated.

 

Regards Chas Le Breton

 

Hi Chas, be happy to help if I can...........what motor/gear ratio do you have in the Lola now, and what are the motor rules for this class at your club ??

 

A pic. of the chassis would also be a help.

 

Cheers

Chris Walker

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Hi Chris.

Great tips on the Mosler. I was following some of your recommendations on my own Mosler project including the Slotting plus rear tube brace. Unfortunately in filing the tube down on the motor side to get some clearance between the Motor and the tube, I over did it and the right side bearing broke off from the tube. Will have to see if I can solder or epoxy glue it back on but I'm afraid I may have weakened the brace.

 

Hello, If is just the bushing that popped out of the tube, that is no issue...a dot of CA, and you are back in business......(I have had a few come out)

 

If you have distorted the tube itself, well,...that is another matter. If it is beyond repair, and, you can't find another, you can make one from brass tubing (2 diameters telescoped) .....if you are up for that let me know :)

 

Cheers

Chris Walker

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Thanks for the tuning tips Chris.

Do you modify the motor pod when using the washers, so it still sits flush with the chassis, or do you just have the motor pod sitting 'up' slightly?

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Hi Chris.

 

Car is standard except for weight. Will take pictures. Suspension is allowed but as stated not fitted and I am not inclined. Car was modified specifically to meet Thunderslot Downunder rules held in Nelson NZ each year. Just meets minimum 80gms weight. Gearing is factory standard as is motor. They also allow treatment to tyres (before each race) but I only used sticky tape. Consequently I was near rear of field but that was fine with me.

 

Other Thunderslot cars are allowed (they have a much lighter body) but I have really only driven my GT to date. Also have Lola T70 Canam car plus McLaren M6 and Elva but latter two still in boxes. Did lend my Canam Lola to somebody at 2018 event. Only GT is allowed in our Open GT class of course.

 

For such a great car pity to not run OTB but rules for event prohibited. It did go a lot better once modified. Would be good to get others going.

 

Regards Chas Le Breton (charlesx)

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Hi Chris.

Great tips on the Mosler. I was following some of your recommendations on my own Mosler project including the Slotting plus rear tube brace. Unfortunately in filing the tube down on the motor side to get some clearance between the Motor and the tube, I over did it and the right side bearing broke off from the tube. Will have to see if I can solder or epoxy glue it back on but I'm afraid I may have weakened the brace.

 

Hello, If is just the bushing that popped out of the tube, that is no issue...a dot of CA, and you are back in business......(I have had a few come out)

 

If you have distorted the tube itself, well,...that is another matter. If it is beyond repair, and, you can't find another, you can make one from brass tubing (2 diameters telescoped) .....if you are up for that let me know :)

 

Cheers

Chris Walker

 

Thanks for the reply Chris. I think the tube is ok, I was very careful filing it, not too much pressure. Will repair it and see how straight it looks.


Orakei Racer

 

Slow is smooth, smooth is fast!

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Thanks for the tuning tips Chris.

Do you modify the motor pod when using the washers, so it still sits flush with the chassis, or do you just have the motor pod sitting 'up' slightly?

 

Hi Shaynus, I do take a bit of material off of the bottom of each motor pod lug, equal to the thickness of the washers used, to achieve the original ride height of the pod. I usually use a Dremel with a cut off disc (done a ton of them) but, the faint of heart may wish to use a file/emery board etc. :)

 

Cheers

Chris Walker

 

 

I also use washers on top of each pod lug, but, generally, no material needs to be removed here

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Hi Chris.

Great tips on the Mosler. I was following some of your recommendations on my own Mosler project including the Slotting plus rear tube brace. Unfortunately in filing the tube down on the motor side to get some clearance between the Motor and the tube, I over did it and the right side bearing broke off from the tube. Will have to see if I can solder or epoxy glue it back on but I'm afraid I may have weakened the brace.

 

Hello, If is just the bushing that popped out of the tube, that is no issue...a dot of CA, and you are back in business......(I have had a few come out)

 

If you have distorted the tube itself, well,...that is another matter. If it is beyond repair, and, you can't find another, you can make one from brass tubing (2 diameters telescoped) .....if you are up for that let me know :)

 

Cheers

Chris Walker

 

Thanks for the reply Chris. I think the tube is ok, I was very careful filing it, not too much pressure. Will repair it and see how straight it looks.

 

I am sure you will do this, ....but,....make sure you have an axle installed before re gluing the bushing :)

 

Cheers

Chris Walker

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Hi Chris.

 

Car is standard except for weight. Will take pictures. Suspension is allowed but as stated not fitted and I am not inclined. Car was modified specifically to meet Thunderslot Downunder rules held in Nelson NZ each year. Just meets minimum 80gms weight. Gearing is factory standard as is motor. They also allow treatment to tyres (before each race) but I only used sticky tape. Consequently I was near rear of field but that was fine with me.

 

Other Thunderslot cars are allowed (they have a much lighter body) but I have really only driven my GT to date. Also have Lola T70 Canam car plus McLaren M6 and Elva but latter two still in boxes. Did lend my Canam Lola to somebody at 2018 event. Only GT is allowed in our Open GT class of course.

 

For such a great car pity to not run OTB but rules for event prohibited. It did go a lot better once modified. Would be good to get others going.

 

Regards Chas Le Breton (charlesx)

 

Hi Chas, If you are running a car with ...a heavier body, stock motor/gearing, and un treated tyres, it is far from surprising that you are struggling to keep up. You indicate that straight line performance is the car's current weakness, and while this quite naturally points to motor power/gearing, your admission of not treating your tyres will also result in less than maximum straight line performance.

 

The first, least expensive, simplest,...and most impactful thing to do is treat your rear tires(tyres)......they obviously must be glued/trued first, and then, well, I am sure you know the tyre treatment process.

 

While a "beefier" motor may well be needed,....check.re check the following first,...all these little things affect straight line performance.

 

Is there any binding in the front/rear axles....

rear bushings lubed......

are you using 2 washers on either end of your rear axle....

too little lash on the gears....

are the front tyres true......

braid in good shape.....

motor connections good...

 

if yes to all the above, looks like more "grunt" is needed

 

Without having the car in my hands it is difficult to "see" anything else, so sorry I could not be more helpful.

 

A pic., would still help,...and I hope we can find something that helps.

 

Cheers

Chris Walker

 

PS The last thing I would do is to add suspension to that already flimsy chassis....."Joe" designed these to be like wet noodles for Euro Plastic track racing...they do not need any more flex/movement for wood....you will notice there are more rigid chassis plates/pods with wood track placing in mind.

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Thank you for all the tips and info everyone. Especially useful for a newbie like myself. It may be common knowledge for the experienced racers out there, but I am mindful that I "don't know what I don't know"!

For example, this is the 1st I've heard of using 2 washers on either end of the axle. I've used axle spacers where needed, but 2 washers? Where abouts are these placed.

Also, with the NSR type rear bushings, does the recessed face go to the inside or out side?

Cheers!

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... but I am mindful that I "don't know what I don't know"! ...

 

Was that a Corner Gas quote to a Canadian, if so nice touch. If not, it should have been.


Cheers Grant

20191120172309-193d8f3b.gif.......................................................20170306174707-b4015afe.gif

Home Track..........Corvette C1 Build..........McLaren M1A Build..........Maserati 300S Build..........Allard J2 Build..........50's Diner..........Iso Griffo A3C

 

3D Printed Adjustable Chassis..........3D Print Projects

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Thank you for all the tips and info everyone. Especially useful for a newbie like myself. It may be common knowledge for the experienced racers out there, but I am mindful that I "don't know what I don't know"!

For example, this is the 1st I've heard of using 2 washers on either end of the axle. I've used axle spacers where needed, but 2 washers? Where abouts are these placed.

Also, with the NSR type rear bushings, does the recessed face go to the inside or out side?

Cheers!

 

Hello Shaynus,.......Using 2 washers/spacers per side let the washers/spacers act as thrust washers which reduces friction between the bushing face and the face of the spur....this is not an opinion, but, a well known/accepted mechanical engineering fundamental. Obviously, this is directed more to anglewinder/sidewinder applications....if you use the center groove of a Crown and the end of the motor shaft to center your inline gears, this is not an issue, but, if you use spacers to center/hold your rear axle (you should) the two spacers per side is equally important/effective.

 

It is a good idea to have a few spacers of different widths to accommodate various track widths, and while there are some fairly good spacers on the market, in my opinion, the best from the mainstream plastic car manufacturers are the Brass ones from NSR...(their 0.12mm ones are great for anglewinder/sidwinder pods when used between the bushing face/spur).

 

If you really want the best ones look at commercial grade slotcar spacers..these are precision cut, (metal not plastic) and being finished both sides, offer the best precision .......Slick 7 and Koford are among the best of these,.....and again both these companies make .005 thou. spacers that are invaluable for most builds.

 

Cheers

Chris Walker

 

PS If you need more help,...please shout

Edited by Chrisguyw

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:blink::wacko::unsure::blink:

 

I have learnt more in the last two weeks than I have in the past 7 years, thanks Chris, already bought a setup jig looking forward to playing with that albeit our exchange rate isn't the best at the mo' so was a bit expensive.


Cheers Grant

20191120172309-193d8f3b.gif.......................................................20170306174707-b4015afe.gif

Home Track..........Corvette C1 Build..........McLaren M1A Build..........Maserati 300S Build..........Allard J2 Build..........50's Diner..........Iso Griffo A3C

 

3D Printed Adjustable Chassis..........3D Print Projects

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Hi Chris.

 

Attach photos as promised. When I said I did not treat tyres I was mainly talking about between races (others use NSR oil or fuelite I think). I just use sticky tape but the others are allowed for event concerned. Original tyres have been replaced with original up-grade tyres then glued and trued. Probably used CRC 2.26 while doing this to aid sanding but mainly water with a dash of detergent. Do not worry about gouge down middle of one rear tyre as I will not replace until worn out. A piece of lead came loose and caused this. Not sure what ground clearance was originally but not much now.

 

Should say that this car was tuned by Joe who was at meeting. Reason for lots of pieces of lead was to meet minimum weight requirement of 80 gms. It was a bit of a quick job. I should probably pull these out and re-do in a more business like fashion. In case you cannot see there is a small piece of lead behind motor. Car is currently 80.77gms and runs beautifully but could possibly be a bit lighter. Joe also coated front tyres. They are not glued.

  • Going through your list in Post 17 - front axle has grub screws top and bottom and runs well.
  • Rear bushings are lubed.
  • No washers on rear axle but have used before on other cars.
  • Gear lash determined by standard but no problem.
  • Front tyres could do with a little work. Still treaded originals but coated.
  • Motor connections factory original.

As car now running in open event at home some modifications could be made.

 

Look forward to any comments or suggestions you might like to make including motor up-grade. I do have a pair of the new three ribbed tyres and Ultra tyres but probably saving for another car. Have a pair of same tyres to fit when necessary.

 

Regards Chas Le Breton (charlesx)

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Hi again Chris. To be completely open I am no novice so you may think your time better spent helping likes of Shaynus. I spend a lot of time doing that too.

 

I do have some personal goals however:

  • I prefer to not simply follow. I could buy a Mosler like the everybody else but like to be different! I am keen to be able to stay with those pesky Moslers though for more than a couple of laps.
  • I like to keep to original parts where possible. For example plastic wheels rather than ali.
  • I try not to fall into the trap of turning each new car into another Slot-it or NSR - just adding a different body. I get far more out of making a Scaly, Carrera or Revell competitive.
  • I like to be try new things. Ever since I saw the first Scaly Lotus 16 with brass rear wheels I have diverged from norm.
  • I like to minimise costs. Some people will spend as much modifying as original cost.

Sorry about the rave. Love your work. We have Dave West in NZ who has the same level of skills.

 

Regards Chas Le Breton (charlesx)

 

Lola-2.jpg

Lola.jpg

Edited by charlesx

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With the NSR type rear bushings, does the recessed face go to the inside or out side?

Cheers!

 

Hi Shaynus,....I forgot to answer this one....

 

If you place the recess facing inwards, it places the load bearing surfaces on the outside, increasing the contact point width, which stabilizes the rear axle a tiny bit more. To be honest, while this is a good/sound principle, the practical difference is likely minimal, especially if you do not glue in your rear bushings, in which case the bushing orientation makes no difference at all . :D

 

That said, I do try and follow proven theories (developed years and years ago, by folks way smarter than me), so, place the recess on the inside. :)

 

Cheers

Chris Walker

Edited by Chrisguyw

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Hi Chris.

 

I have started re-building my Thunderslot Lola GT using a couple of your refinements. We all need a reminder of the basics occasionally. Do not really want to up-grade motor except as last resort. Will also try a couple of my own ideas plus tidy up lead weight. Will probably try a little less to start off with. Am a little inclined to remove altogether but I am aware that those pesky Moslers are weighted. I have the weird idea that weight and regular tyre treatment rather than just tyre preparation are just a magnet or glue substitute.

 

Our local tracks tend to be 18-20 metres in length so not a lot to be gained on straights although it all helps. Car already corners beautifully on our very smooth tracks. Is a mile faster than Slot-it Group C cars and Group 5 saloons.

 

When I mentioned weight of body Joe mentioned that GT standard he tried to keep to was I think about 17gms for GT's and 13gms for the likes of Canam cars. Idea was to keep as even as possible. As you be well aware they all have the same chassis, motor etc.

 

It was great to see Joe racing but it was much different to his usual plastic track experience. He is certainly a nice joker. Was more than happy to pass on his knowledge as are a lot of us.

 

Will keep you posted. Presume you have seen the photos I added to AUSLOT as you requested.

 

We come out of absolute lockdown here tomorrow but not much different for oldies.

 

Regards Chas Le Breton (charlesx)

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