Jump to content
rosco01

Lc Lj Torana Scratch Builds

Recommended Posts

We have now reached a milestone stage in the body - we are in "guide coat"..

For those not familiar with this, you have seen cars being driven around in it for many years - but not knowing what it was, or its purpose.

It gives the appearance of a "speckled" overspray - sometimes very thin, depending on work needed to the surface beneath... the more obvious work - the thicker the coat.

As the name suggests, it is a very feint coating applied over primer which allows the spray painter to "see" where work has yet to be effected.

It is a sacrificial very thin coating of contrasting paint that, for the most - will be removed during the "blocking back" stage - the next in line.

As it is sacrificial - any excess applied is simply waste... as it will be removed in the blocking back process...

It's purpose is to reveal both the high spots, nicks, and low areas where the primer must be rubbed back to remove. Obviously, if there is insufficient primer - more needs to be sprayed on the panel.. and the guide coating/blocking back process repeated.

There are areas where it is almost impossible to get into - and it is for this reason alone - that the paint used in guide coating must be compatible with whatever is to be laid down over it... 

 

I have used Tamiya semi-gloss, with X20-A acrylic thinners.... this combination affords me relative ease in blocking down through it - yet should not effect the top coat of lacquer applied over it when the underlying coats have fully cured out (Americans call this "setting up").

 

So - here are some pix of our project after the Tamiya fine primer has fully "set up"... and the guide coat applied in readiness for blocking down.

 

Pix..

 

3005-guide-coat-left-mail.jpg

 

3006-guide-coat-top-mail.jpg

 

3007-guide-coat-rear-mail.jpg

 

3008-guide-coat-front-mail.jpg

 

Next, we go to the blocking back stage..... 

back soon...

 

frats,

Rosco

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am at present almost mid-way through blocking down the guide coat and primer.

In the following pix - I am hoping to indicate just how beneficial this process is in obtaining the best possible surface in preparation for those lovely colour coats... 

There are three pix here..... all of them revealing the "work" yet to be effected.

In the side on pic, we can see the "low" areas along the panels.... indicated by the remainder of guide coat on the surface. Further blocking down should remove these..... as the surrounding primer is taken further down, being proud above the surface of that still underneath the guide coat.

You can also see some little "nicks" in the work - very clearly indicated by the black which reports them.... 

The options to remedy these are either to block the entire surrounding surface down - providing there is enough primer remaining.. or to "spot prime" - or even more demanding - putty... and repeat the process back up to guide coat.

It depends on the finish required.... 

As we very well know with this model, there will be a considerable amount of decals laid down over the colour coats.... I am not greatly concerned of tiny imperfections because of this -but I will work the primer down until the underlying 1K etch shows through (you can see that  I have already "just" reached this point in some of the pix). 
It is extremely important not to go any further than the 1K etch - for, if that is blocked away - it will expose the substrate (casting, in this case) or more critically - putty..... and we will be in all sorts of trouble when lay down our colour coats.... 

 

If I were to be painting a model with only a few adorning decals, I would probably now have decided to respray primer to correct some of the tiny little blemishes - revealed by this blocking down of guide coat... 

The finish is only ever going to be as good as the work performed underneath it - this is the golden spray painter's rule.... if you want a great finish - you have to put in the work... the greatest top coat of paint cannot possibly conceal shoddy work underneath...and - you may get away with it for a short while, but I can guarantee you - as the paint fully cures out and "pulls down"... these errors will come to the surface... as i have experienced many years back in full scale auto spray painting..... 

 

Ok - pix.... 

 

3009-lh-semi-blocked-mail.jpg

 

3010-front-blocked-mail.jpg

 

3011-rear-blocked-mail.jpg

 

I will continue with blocking my work down..... at present, there is every chance that we'll be in "colour" by the end of today - I have not seen anything which demands I go back through the preparation stages ..... yet....

 

frats,

Rosco

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice split personality look on the middle pic!

I assume you use a soft (sponge) block to rub back? What sort of grade wet & dry do you use at this stage?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Rosco,

Following this with so much envy, skill level is up there.

two questions,

what happened to the wheels in the end or did I miss those posts in my upheaval?

and two, why brass for the grill and not an old credit card?


Cheers Grant

20191120172309-193d8f3b.gif.......................................................20170306174707-b4015afe.gif

Home Track..........Corvette C1 Build..........McLaren M1A Build..........Maserati 300S Build..........Allard J2 Build..........50's Diner..........Iso Griffo A3C

 

3D Printed Adjustable Chassis..........3D Print Projects

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, see if I can answer this in order of questions...

Blocking back - no, definitely not anything soft.... especially fingers. You need a firm block which will "just" follow the contour of what you are working on.... eg, bonnet = pretty much absolutely firm, stainless even..... curved roof = firm piece of neoprene rubber, mine is 3 mm thick... bootlid = 1.5 mm neoprene rubber block..... there is a pic and some text up above regarding this in the little "tools" post I put up.

If you block back using your fingers - they will follow the contour of the guide coat.. and you pretty much will lose everything the guide coats puts at your fingertips (pun intended).

When you block down, do not simply rub in one direction - or you'll end up putting "flats" or "hexes" on your work.... I "cross-hatch" - meaning, I work the panel at 90 degree cuts to each other..... rub in one direction along the panel, rinse and wipe, then rub at 90 degrees to that and repeat until the guide coat is gone.. or whatever is under the primer begins to show through.

We only need to use a grade of wet/dry which enable us to work the thickness of both the guide coat and primer.... the heavier grade you use, the deeper will be the cuts - and the less of them you will be able to take before what's underneath shows through....

So, in this case - I have used 1200 keeping it wet.... until most of the guide coat has been removed - I then switched to 1500 for a few cuts and finished up with 2000. Both 1500, 2000 are available from your auto panel paint supplier. 2400 is also available - it is brilliant for bringing up plastic prior to a plastic polish... 2400 is a bit of a waste on primer.... we really need a tiny bit of "keying" (keying is the extremely fine cuts) so that the overlaying coats have a mechanical grip on the blocked down surface..... this is not so important with lacquer paint, as the lacquer in it will partially dissolve that of the thinners based primer underneath... of course, the wetter you apply the lacquer paint between flashing off - the more risk you bring to the thinners in it reactivating those in the primer.... so, be mindful of this if you intend to apply lacquer paint heavily.... and pretty much the only reason people do this - is to obtain a better gloss finish.

This is a little bit defective in logic and practice..... we don't need to build up a gloss just yet.... we have decals and probably other things to add ..... and we are going to clear coat the end result - that's where we'll get our mirror finish.

What is important - is that we get good colour coverage.. and a smooth finish - as little rippling or "flutter" as we can, depending on the airbrush we are using - an internal mix gun will obtain far flatter and finer results than an external.... 

But, this is not so important - as it is more likely we will be blocking down the colour coats to some extent... it is difficult to spray colour coats with the finish we would like .... especially if it is "flat" or semi-gloss..... gloss will "flow out" better... but it's a balance of how much thinners is mixed in with the paint.... too thick, and you won't get it to flow out - and it is more likely to dry in the air before it hits the work... too thin, and we risk both flooding or pooling up of the paint.... and worse - runs.

Pooling up will fill delicate detail... like the lines in doors and windows.. badges etc. etc.... we don't want that.... so, we sort of aim to get full colour coverage - and nice flow out - without building up the thickness of the paint too much...... hard to explain, if you have never done this... 

Our gloss coats and final protection come with the clear coating.... again, building up layers of it with flash off times between coats. With an acrylic paint, this flash off time is longer.... with lacquer - much shorter... it's the end result we are looking for with both.

Lacquer is a much harder film which protects everything under it.... and I firmly believe this to be the appropriate paint for slot cars.

Model railways, where items are rarely touched - work fine with an acrylic paint system... enamel even... but they never reach the same hard shell coating as that of lacquer.

 

The danger with lacquer is that it is dangerous to your health... it's the thinners in it. Hence my recent project to construct a spray booth with exhaust fans... and the added benefit of diffused lighting... 

 

Grant - finally to you. Wheels - yes, I have all 23 of them... probably a dozen or so are fully serviceable, and will more than likely be used - but not on this project. 

The wheels I made for the tyres and inserts.... no issue with the magnificent inserts that Munter provides in his kit...

The tyres - nope - they are way too wide... and all the wheels I have turned so far have been done to spec for them.... 

I now have narrower tyres, and they make the model look a lot more proto-typical..... as mentioned many times, I'm more of a modeler than a racer.. or operator.

I want scale - and the previous sets of tyres I have simply don't fit in with the result I seek..... so, I'm now in the process of re-assembling the lathe (spindle bearings on order) - then I'll turn up wheels to fit these better scale tyres.... if anyone is interested - they are the MJK tyres which fit a Scalextric Cortina or Escort... being 13".. and pretty close to fitting a 6" wide wheel.

I can turn up the insert cavity to suit Munter's wheel inserts.. so, it's no biggie to me that the wheels which I would otherwise have to purchase for these wheels would not suit Munter's inserts... think that makes sense?

Grille - no, had to be brass..... the thickness of credit card material is way too thick.. even thicker than the first grille I made up.... 

Of course, I could have used the credit card face on and scribed lines through it... but, I wanted "open" grille on this model... along with the other apertures and detail. The small intakes into the cabin plenum chamber were painstakingly drilled and gouged out.... so too, the slits in the sides of the front guards... I may not do this with the LC which will follow later in the year - but this being PB's first win at Bathurst - I wanted to re-create as close a life-like model as I am capable of... and these small amounts of detail were well and truly part of the plan.

Further, I went with brass - because of it's very strong durability when assembled... previous experience in other hobbies has given me confidence in doing this..... and I have found that soldering brass together is extremely robust - you could put this grille between your fingers and try to twist or bend it for all your worth - it is rock solid.. no other medium was going to come close to that. The thickness of the brass I have used is just 0.25 mm... from brass shim sheet...... yet, assembled and soldered - apart from the ends - it is almost unbendable.... the slit and lattice construction has added a lot to this.

 

Ok.. think that's about it. We're nearly down to the last of blocking back... I am still hopeful that I'll get "colour" onto the model by this evening... or perhaps after dinner.

 

Hope I've answered all your questions...

 

frats,

Rosco

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oops... forgot another important bit about blocking down...... edges and "crowns"... these are danger areas and prone to being rubbed down well before the surrounding area has..... so, we need a little care here and a change to our method.

Never rub "across" an edge.... golden rule.... rub "along" it... and use two grades of paper finer than that for the surrounding area.

When you clock these down - work along the edge in very light cuts... sort of "rolling" each cut further around the edge with each cut.... "hexing" if you like.... a final "rounded over" cut can be taken with the very finest paper you can get (2500, in my case - which is not much heavier than newspaper)... it will take the fine hexes out of those cuts.

Crowns - these are high spots in an otherwise flat local area.... we see them in body detail a lot... bulges where air scoops, bonnet flaring and pointed areas (like the front of this model)... they are danger areas - and take quite a bit of work..... it is absolutely important that we work very finely here... and take "equal" cuts from both sides.... or we will "lop-side" the end result.

The same can be said when blocking down putty - so, if you have yet to reach the putty stage - it is very good practice for what will eventually follow - the paint.... 

Any fine detail will can be kept from the model until after assembly will be strongly advised to do so...... it can go on just before the clear coat... which will pretty much take out any visible addition line..... and make applying decals ever so much easier. As you can see, I have drilled my holes for the wipers and fuel filling pipe... they will be painted up prior to adding to the model.... and a final clear coat will marry them into the surrounding area fairly nicely.

 

There will be more, but for now - I can't bring it to mind.... we'll get to these things as the model begins to take shape and the detail is added.

 

frats,

Rosco

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok - we're about to shoot some colour..... but!

My chosen Holts "radiant red" is of no use to me over Tamiya grey primer.... and I'm not prepared to attempt to spray an auto lacquer over the model so that I can... or it could very well result in the same disaster..... the thinners in the automotive paint are way too aggressive for the Tamiya paint... and I would further more than likely risk it fusing into the Tamiya putty beneath.... we would then be three weeks back to building up the putty.... not going to happen.

 

I did some testing prior to mixing the paint up.... and have been saved despair. 

This testing clearly revealed that the automotive paint would have penetrated the primer - and putty.... so - it's out.... 

I am now in a conundrum as to paint again... but I believe I have come up with a solution.

 

In the process of laying down a number of test patches inside the model - to compare the results over Tamiya grey primer - I have found that the Tamiya "red" acrylic - X-7 is not too far off the mark.. not as close as radiant red, but it's maybe only a hue or shade too "cyan" than it..... 

The radiant red breakdown was C 2, M 99, Y 100 and K 1..... the Tamiya X-7 is C 17, M 100, Y 100 and K 9...... Patto's ink is C 8m M 99, Y 100, K 1... so, what we have is just a tad more cyan in our Tamiya X-7.... and it will marry perfectly with both the Tamiya primer and putty.... 

 

The pic below reveals what would have eventuated if I'd gone ahead and sprayed up automotive paint (thinners, actually - the paint would have been fine)...

The A9-X is at left, the underside of the LJ centre and the L-34 at right. 

As you can see, the paint used on both the A9-X and L-34 are very close to the Tamiya red (if not what was used at the factory in China).It's not as dark as I would like.. and I'm not going to mess with adding tint to it..... a nightmare, if ever I need to repair the paintwork... and small batches of "mix" simply don't stay matched for long periods.

The six test strips inside the model, from left are....

Tamiya Mica Red in lacquer, Tamiya Red in lacquer, Tamiya X-7 red, Radiant red with lacquer thinners, Radiant red with Tamiya thinners, Radiant red as it was decanted out of the aerosol.

You can clearly see that the last three have penetrated the grey primer.... resulting in a very much darkened outcome... I fear this penetration will also extend into the putty - and I am not going to risk that...

 

Pic...

 

3012-Tamiya-acrylic-red.jpg

 

So, we are going to mix up our X-7 with lacquer thinners and lay down a few coats until I get coverage.... hopefully, the Tamiya system will bring a satisfactory result.... I'm not planning on this being the final coat before decals, but we should get a fair indication of how the layers will settle down... 

 

Back later - exciting, isn't it?

 

frats,

Rosco

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Warren,

I'll have some colour pix up shortly - but yesterday was a day of alarm and disappointment.... I'll try to explain in the sequence of events.

Before I start prattling on (again)... I must first state that the model looks amazing in red... 

As stated up above, I ran away from the original plan of using auto paint... it penetrated the Tamiya lacquer primer.... 

I chose to go with Tamiya X-7 red, and had the bottle of Tamiya lacquer thinner open ready to make up my mix - when something kicked in and stopped me - the concern of the lacquer bringing issues out in the putty simply frightened me from doing so... I reached for my bottle of X-20A acrylic thinners and mixed up about 20 ml .... blended it up for a few minutes with the great little Badger paint mixer (worth every cent).

Washed the body down in warm soapy water and rinsed it thoroughly... then took it out to the paint shop and used an air wand to dry it off... not allowing the surface to self-dry.... I have found this method prevents residue from the water evaporating on its own.

 

Set up the booth, and air brush (Badger 200, which I have used for all of my air-brushing in over 30 years).. and laid down a few passes on some scrap.

Immediately - my dislike for using red paint returned before my eyes... I find red to be a most difficult colour to get coverage... it is almost translucent... 

Not only that, but I also found this mix to be thicker than any of the other Tamiya paints mixed at 1:1... it came out of the brush in a blotchy pattern. I tried a little more thinners - with no better result, and I was not prepared to add any more - being translucent... so, the plan changed very quickly.

I laid down a few coats with flashing off between them... the underlying guide coat and where I had rubbed through into the etch primer took a huge amount of passes to finally get coverage... 

The result of this was that I have now contradicted just about everything I have posted on keeping paint film thin... in this case - it's probably the thickest coating i have applied to a model in more than 20 years.... 

Now, the good bit - it looks amazing... not quite what I'd hoped for - but very satisfying none-the-less.... the surface is not the mirror gloss which should have come, but it's close... 

Now - next bit..... curing.... I have found this X-20A thinners (acrylic) to dry sufficiently to be handled lightly in a few hours.... but, if it is to be gripped for work - it will readily leave finger prints embedded into the paint.... add to this, the huge amount of coats I have been forced to apply - it will take at least a week for it to cure sufficiently to be either blocked or compounded (trade word for cut and polished)... I am yet to determine which way I'll go with this yet.... it has to cure out to allow me to do some testing.

 

So - for those following - I have some new suggestions when using this red paint.

One - your primer coat - if you break though to the substrate or etch underneath, re-apply the primer so that there is a solid coverage.... you will more than likely get away with applying only a few coats of this red over that... the grey will be visible through the paint, but it will produce a consistent overall colour.

Two - Be prepared that it may take more than one spray session to get good coverage.... it is my belief at present, that I'll be blocking down again and laying a further few coats in a second session.... mainly to reduce the paint film, but also to get a flatter finish... I can see tiny flutter in my finish - and I guess that is the bit which disappoints me most.... if I'd colour coated with black or any dark pigment paint - this would have been a mirror finish... it was absolutely perfect after blocking down with the guide coat... 

Three - if you "believe" your paint layers are getting too thick - stop..... laying more down is only forcing more work in removing it..... you are not going to reach a "one shot" result if you can't get coverage after six or more passes..... and each one will fill detail...... 

 

I'll fire off a few pix later when i can handle the model.... 

I'm happy with the look of the model, I believe I'm happy with the red  - just not happy with the body and transparency of the paint, and how I have duped myself into applying far more than I should have... 

Red - stunning colour, but one of the most difficult to spray....

 

Back later.. with some pix.

 

frats,

Rosco

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most certainly, Shaynus..... "if" I were to spray red again - that would be my go to primer.... but, just the same - no contrasting of any underlying work .... just one solid primer coat.. lesson learned... red - gotta love it.... Ferrari do.

 

frats,

Rosco

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok folk,

here they are..... paint is still very soft - it may pull down a lot further yet as it cures out, and hopefully some of that gloss and mirror finish will come up.... but, I'm pretty much resigned to it having to be blocked down and re-sprayed..... 
if you look closely - you can see the very heavy build of paint.. this shows up around the detail areas.... 

We'll get there, just not yet.

So - it will be at least a week before I return to work on this part of the build. Hopefully, the angular bearings will arrive early next week and we can re-assemble the lathe.. and turn up some new wheels ... I can then make a start on the chassis.

 

Pix.. not happy, Jan.... 

 

5007-colour-coat-mail.jpg

 

5008-colour-coat-mail.jpg

 

5009-colour-coat-mail.jpg

 

5010-colour-coat-mail.jpg

 

frats,

Rosco

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, those photos go a long way to show the gulf in our standards Rosco. You are resigned to redoing,  where I would be rapt with that result! ;)

Back to reality, are you planning on masking and painting the white areas of the car, or will they be decals?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd love to have masked and spray the white, Shaynus - which would have demanded that I spray white first, and over coat with red.... always, dark over light when masking.

The only reason I have decided against doing my own "work" - is the very fine pin striping that Patto has provided in his decals.... 

He has deleted the red ink from the decals - hence why I have sprayed the model red.... 

When the decals are applied over the red base..... the pin striping will show through... in red - obviously, the deleted ink simply is clear film..... 

the white of the decal is going to be my "panel" work... how it comes up over my work I am yet to find out. We have a long way to go before we look at decals.... 

I am ever hopeful, that this model will be a kind reflection of the car it is attempting to replicate in scale.... we'll see. Just a bit disappointed at present - that will all change when I address this paint issue... I'll overcome it, just means a bit of work.... probably saw the result before I commenced the paint process... vision, eh?... might have had my "rosco" blinkers on... 

 

thanks for your kind words - and yes, some would simply fit a chassis under this result and enjoy putting in a few laps.... might have to keep the model moving, we wouldn't want to risk anyone actually focusing on it..... 

 

frats,

Rosco

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Progress update folk,

after 8 days of leaving the Tamiya acrylic paint pull down, whilst otherwise engaged in a solid 5 day slog on the bogie gears and drive-line inside a model locomotive - I finally found it time to attempt compounding the paint.

As you recall, I wasn't happy.... red - love it or hate it - looks great when it's finished, but it's a very difficult colour to use - and all my nightmares of last using it came back to me.

I put an awful lot of paint on (so it seemed at the time).. and it looked "gluggy" to me... way too thick, but I wasn't getting the cover with the normal light coats I am used to applying... so, I left it... put it out in the sun for 30 minutes each day, left it in the breeze... and simply refused to look at it until I could play with it... 

 

I took me all day today - but I believe I have reached the point where I need to make decisions as to the next step. I'm quite happy with the result from today - it has indeed come up a lot better than any indication suggested. There wasn't as much paint on it as I believed.... either the thinners was the major part of the paint, which took so long to finally evaporate out of it whilst pulling down - or, I hadn't applied as much as first believed.

End result is that there was "just" enough to block it down with some 2500 wet/dry and compound it up to a lovely mirror finish. There are a couple of places where the primer began to show through..... but I was ready for it... and as soon as I saw the dreaded dark patches deep down in the paint - I stopped... 

 

Five or six pix... and one showing what I urge others to take heed of when blocking down - clogged paper... I'll explain with a pic.... 

 

I am beginning to block down the roof using 2500.. on a fairly firm neoprene block (same used for all other paint/body work)... we can see in this pic, the "fluttering" of the airbrush has left the surface "mottled".... using paper bound tightly onto a block, it will sand down the surface until all this "flutter" has been removed and we have a fully dull surface - with nothing glossy showing left...... we can then go ahead and begin to compound the flat finish and bring up that "mirror" shine we aim for..... pic

 

5100-roof-blocked-mail.jpg

 

In this next pic - I would like you to take a close look at the paper - there are three "clogged" bits in it..... if I were to continue with this paper, I'd simply be "gouging" into the fresh paint brought to the surface.... and this would go on and on until I either reached the primer - or did so much damage, I'd need to respray....

Never try to get these flecks out... paper is cheap, compared to the hundreds of hours you put in on getting a surface up ready for paint..... bin it, don't be tempted - it will clog again much much faster than a fresh piece of paper....

pic 

 

5101-2500-paper-clogged-mail.jpg

 

So, after quite a few hours - we have the body compounded. I used the same rubbing blocks for compounding. My method is to cut up strips of "chux" cloth and bind it around the small blocks as tight as my fingers can pull it. Only a few binds is necessary to get a pad...... any thicker and I have found that it is too flexible and the pad won't hold the shape of the block...

I tend to use Tamiya fine compounding paste... changing pads regularly.

Also - I repeat - when working over high areas and crowns etc... never go across them, only along.... leave those until you have finished the flat panels - chances are, you will have cut into them already without noticing - and, it only takes a few light passes along these areas to take out any flutter or mottle.... 

 

Next lot of pix don't need any comment... I'm pretty happy with the result, and relieved that I do not need to respray the red..... pix...

 

5102-compounded-mail.jpg

 

5103-compounded-mail.jpg

 

 

5104-compounded-mail.jpg

 

 

5105-compounded-mail.jpg

 

 

So, I'll leave this freshly compounded paint a couple more days now - if I'd been using lacquer (still would prefer it) I could go ahead with the next step - but I still find it possible to leave a finger print in this fresh paint if handled heavily.. so, we'll remove the risk and simply let it cure out more.... I may end up with "dimples" if any further thinner comes out..... evidenced by the thinners pulling down the already flat glossy finish..... I have seen this before, and it means more compounding.. all the time, risking the primer showing through.

 

I am in a conundrum at present, and the next couple of days will give me time to think this out. I would like to clear coat over this paint with lacquer... before applying the decals... the lacquer coat will give me some insurance against the acrylic getting any reaction from the water used with decals.... and, it will also give me something hard to work down to again if applying decals creates any issues.... I can't guarantee that with this acrylic red paint... and don't want to be forced to go back a few steps and respray it.....

 

Any comments greatly appreciated and welcomed.... I have not sprayed clear lacquer over cured acrylic yet... I certainly don't want to risk destroying this work up at this stage....

 

frats,

Rosco

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What sort of Lacquer are you talking about, Old school nitrocellulose lacquer or modern acrylic lacquer?

Chances are that either will cause the Tamiya model paint to wrinkle as the thinners is “ hot” compared to the model paint.

Best to use only the same clear as the base paint.


Phil

 

Hobart Miniature Car Club

 

Tassie Resins

 

Email

 

 

 

 

 

 

Logos%2016_17.small_zpswkcwjf0q.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Phil,

the lacquer I refer to is Tamiya...... I have sucessfully mixed Tamiya lacquer thinners into Tamiya acrylic paint..... with great results.

I'm not totally in love with Tamiya acrylic - strange as this might seem, with the results I have achieved.... fingerprints can be made into it - even weeks after spraying.

 

In one of your previous replies, concerning decals and clear coating - from memory, you suggested applying a clear lacquer as a final coat to protect a model's paintwork exposed to the rigors of slot racing.... 

Thank you for your reply - it would most certainly only ever be Tamiya lacquer that I would apply as a clear coat over anything....... 

We must remember here, that even Tamiya acrylic - has "something" in it which is slightly aggressive - I applied it over some of Patto's decals and it caused them to wrinkle to some extent.... a water-based acrylic paint should not do this.... especially a clear.... 

If you look at a bottle of Tamiya acrylic - it has a fire warning..... so, there is something in it...... but it does not cure out to become a hard wearing surface as the lacquer does.... 

 

 I am new to modeling with acrylic paint... I have a number of Vallejo acrylic paints - they do not contain any aggressive ingredients at all..... unlike the Tamiya acrylic.

 

Patto warns on using "some" of the better know acrylics over his decals... I'm guessing, Tamiya acrylic is one of "those"....

 

frats,

Rosco

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, kalbfellp said:

What sort of Lacquer are you talking about, Old school nitrocellulose lacquer or modern acrylic lacquer?

Chances are that either will cause the Tamiya model paint to wrinkle as the thinners is “ hot” compared to the model paint.

Best to use only the same clear as the base paint.

Further to you reply, Phil....... 

To the very best of my understanding, drawn on a number of decades messing with paint - there is an abundant contrast in terminology between modeling, and automotive paint.... and it should have been nipped in the bud before it became common-speak... 

Automotive acrylic is in fact, a lacquer.... using ketone, acetone, dio-sol and tolulene..... or combinations of any of these as the thinners for the body to be able to be sprayed... they are aggressive and will damage any paint system which is vulnerable to these chemicals..... enamels, or water based acrylics (like house paint). 

 

Modeling acrylic, is supposed to be water based.... and should not harm any substrate or previous coating..... 

Modeling lacquer, contains far less aggressive solvents than automotive acrylic lacquer... which may or may not be dio-sol, or a very much reduced amount of tolulene - so, here we have a huge difference in terminology - confusing the heck out of many newcomers..

In modeling, lacquer - does not contain the seriously strong solvents as those in automotive lacquer... and acrylic in modeling - is not to be confused with the acrylic lacquer in automotive.

 

So, we have a clear (excuse pun) difference between terminology.

 

As you suggest, it would be foolish to apply an automotive acrylic lacquer over a model unless a barrier was applied to protect it...or it was previously sprayed in an automotive acrylic primer -  and I have absolutely no intention of doing so.

I am seriously considering testing some (modeling) clear lacquer over (modeling) acrylic... and I believe I have had success with this previously in model railway airbrushing.... 

Of course, I will not do any "testing" on this LJ model.. but lay down some Tamiya acrylic paint, let it cure out for a day - then over-coat it with lacquer clear.... the 1 day between spraying will more than reveal if there is going to be any reaction or fusing...... I am not going to risk the work I have done on this paintwork.... and will be pretty much absolutely certain that any coating over the top will not attack that below..... 

 

Thanks again.. hope some of this clarifies things for those who either are not aware, or are confused in terminology....

Happy to further explain my understanding of this cryptic play-on-words.... 

frats,

Rosco

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...