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rosco01

Lc Lj Torana Scratch Builds

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Hi Rosco, I am a little late jumping in here, but,...great work so far !! After turning your first set of wheels, I am sure you have discovered some things that will help on your next ones :D

 

I did spend a lot of time with Al Penrose (BWA wheels), so I do know how frustrating it can be, and, there are certainly many things to be learned.

 

Not sure where you are with your chassis design/build, but, I have attached a couple of pics,. of some inline chassis, which I am sure you will be using, given the size of the Flat 6 motors, and the width constrictions of the body you are using.............maybe these will give you some ideas.

 

As well, Slot-it does make a 23T Crown (Pink), which has a tad smaller od. than the 24T (Green) Crown, and will certainly help with ground clearance.

 

A note on gear ratios'...if you are using either of the Flat 6 motors, in conjunction with some small (ish) rear tyres, a 9T pinion with a 23/24 T Crown will still have tons of acceleration/brakes, due to the stack length and magnet strength in these motors.

 

A few pics., of some inline chassis that will work well with the Flat 6 motors.....may or not give you a few ideas

 

Hope this helps, and if you need any help, please shout.

 

Cheers

Chris Walker

 

A hybrid chassis.....Slot-it pod/wire brass.......this one has an FC 130, pod, but this can easily be changed

 

2003-12-31-23-00-00-12.jpg

 

Same chassis sans motor..............

 

2003-12-31-23-00-00-18.jpg

 

 

Another hybrid,.....using an aluminum pod from PNSlot,.......any plastic long can pod could be substituted.

 

2003-12-31-23-00-00-90-copy-3.jpg

 

 

And a fully scratch Fk180 motor chassis...

 

2003-12-31-23-00-00-62.jpg

 

The rolling chassis as above..........

 

2003-12-31-23-00-00-67-Copy-Copy.jpg

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A brilliant start to the wheels there Ross. Great job. Good luck with the rest.


bram1_zpsfkhrhndv.jpg

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So, is it too late to put in an order for a set of RRR-01 wheels?

(He says only half jokingly!)

I mean, while everything is set up and you are in the zone...

Very well executed Rosco's I hope you enjoy the sense of satisfaction of a job wheel done (get it??) that you very much deserve

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Bravo


Cheers Grant

20191120172309-193d8f3b.gif.......................................................20170306174707-b4015afe.gif

Home Track..........Corvette C1 Build..........McLaren M1A Build..........Maserati 300S Build..........Allard J2 Build..........50's Diner..........Iso Griffo A3C

 

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Thanks heaps, Chris - this is exactly what I want.... I will have quite a few questions to throw at you once I sit down and draw up plans for my two chassis - they will be identical.

As for the small crown - I believe I have overcome that issue... with now being able to fit the larger MJK tyres and dress them down to near scale.

The LJ XU-1 Torana had "Globe Sprintmaster" wheels... they were 13"x6"... I don't know what tyres Peter Brock and the Holden Dealer Team ran on them, but I don't believe they would have come from a retail tyre market... and I may be afforded some "poetic license" in running slightly larger diameter than what a road version of the car was fitted with...

The MJK 4263 tyres are, of course - much wider than prototype.. and I can live with that... it is the side view appearance I am focusing for scale purposes.

 

I love those chassis... but I have a few questions already -

What thickness is the brass strip/plate in those shown?... I do have a small quantity of K&S brass strip (used in another modeling hobby) but I will purchase a "stock" of them for Slot Car purpose only...

 

Second question - are the two brass plates which are fitted laterally across the vehicle intended to increase cornering stability or do they add torsional strength to the chassis.... or both?

 

Third question - where did you get that "1/32 scratch builder plate" from..... I "must" have one of these.

I use a ceramic tile, which up until now has been brilliant for soldering on... the plate in your pic makes allowance for setting axles much more accurately.... the holes in the ceramic plate were such that I used the "nearest" which for the Cooper was 50% each way between where I wanted to fit them, and where the holes would retain them... it was only a tiny amount - but I was aiming for greater accuracy in wheel-base than I was able to achieve... albeit about 1.5 mm out.

 

The wheelbase for the LJ is 100" (2540 mm)... if I am not wrong - I calculate this to be 3 1/8"... or 79.35 mm.... I am hoping this is correct.

The track of the LJ is 52.2" or 1326 mm.... my calculation is 1.63" ... or 41.4 mm. This was only for the XU-1 model and I believe plates were fitted to the hubs between the hub and wheel to space out the track... I don't know why, but I have an original set of these in my EK, which I kept - and have now put to good use to gain clearance from Dragway wheels i fitted to the vehicle from fouling the upper ball joint of the front end.

 

The rear track in the LJ was only 51.2"... it was a drum brake rear end.... my current thinking i that the XU-1 when fitted with these Globe Sprintmaster wheels may have had the same issue... and they fitted these spacers to gain clearance from the suspension with the wider wheels.

The LJ front end is basically the same as the HR front end that i now have in my EK.... save that it had a narrower track and also rack and pinion front mounted steering gear. I believe the upper and lower ball joints in the control arms are identical... so, it would support my belief that the spacers were fitted to the front in order to prevent the wheels fouling the upper ball joint body.... only the XU-1 was fitted with these wheels from the factory... the GTR and all other LJ models were fitted with pressed steel rims... the GTR had dress trims and a central wheel bearing cover.. the rest had hub caps...

 

For the motor mount, I intend to make my own motor mount/gearbox/axle bush holders.... that one is a bit down the track yet.. but it is in my plan for this build.

 

Mounting a Slot-It pod would make construction a lot quicker and easier - but I'm not in this for a fast build and will enjoy making my own complete chassis (first time) from stock material.... with Slot-It componentry.

 

Again, Chris - thank you so much for your information and reply... and pix... I have something to work on now.

I was contemplating just the simple piano wire chassis with brass motor/gearbox/axle mount at rear and brass front axle/guide mount up front - as I have done previously with the little T-53 Cooper.. but, this being a heavier model, and probably requiring more rigidity for both motor and body - the brass plate chassis above are certainly now fully in focus for the build.

 

frats,

Rosco

Edited by rosco01

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So, is it too late to put in an order for a set of RRR-01 wheels?

(He says only half jokingly!)

I mean, while everything is set up and you are in the zone...

Very well executed Rosco's I hope you enjoy the sense of satisfaction of a job wheel done (get it??) that you very much deserve

Ha Ha, Shaynus...... not too late.... but you might die of old age before they materialise... (replies half jokingly )

 

Lot of work for just one wheel... I hope to have another done by the time light fails this evening... my second attempt is usually better than the prototype - but, there is absolutely nothing wrong with using this first wheel in the model... it rolls very well on the axle... it's just the very thin remaining outer rim that I am disappointed with - it is no wonder that I had reservations about boring for the first time... behind me now - I have a special tool and understand the sequence.

 

I am about to go make a start today - first up, will be drilling out the grub holes along the rod for another 3 wheels... maybe more.

 

Thanks Bram and Grant for your remarks... this will be a "long haul" build... hope I don't put you all to sleep with detail... more pix needed (even if they are just of the lathe.... pix are the candy in my "novels").

 

frats,

Rosco

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Chris,

I did some searching and sourced a number of scratch building set up plates...

I don't know which one you have, and would be very appreciative if you could make a recommendation.

 

The one I am favoring at present is this one...

 

534945_large.jpg

 

2201 1/32 Scratch builder Metric

 

1/32 Scratch builder Metric dimensions

Build all 1/32 scales cars to metric dimensions.

Included with the fixture,

Front and rear jig wheels, (2) 4" long 3/32 build axles,

all the stainless steel hardware

 

 

 

 

 

I do understand this is in $US and that shipping down under to here is considerably expensive.

 

 

frats,

Rosco

Edited by rosco01

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I've just purchased this one, with exchange rate was going on :o AU$200 :o still in transit but ChrisW has this particular one.


Cheers Grant

20191120172309-193d8f3b.gif.......................................................20170306174707-b4015afe.gif

Home Track..........Corvette C1 Build..........McLaren M1A Build..........Maserati 300S Build..........Allard J2 Build..........50's Diner..........Iso Griffo A3C

 

3D Printed Adjustable Chassis..........3D Print Projects

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I have that one....got it a few years ago and havent really used it. Cost me $NZ85.00 all up.

 

I still build chassis on any flat surface (a slab of mdf) and use my eyechrometer and the theories of eyetrometry.


John Warren

Slotcars are my preferred reality

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and use my eyechrometer and the theories of eyetrometry.

 

Ha Ha - I have two of those, John.... they conflict often... I find in times of strict accuracy, to apply the airforce "newc bomb" practice of covering one eye... or at least closing it..... have a preference for the co-pilot's seat... (right eyechronometer) ... the windshield is a little clearer.... but am ambidextrous if need be...

 

frats,

Rosco

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I've just purchased this one, with exchange rate was going on :o AU$200 :o still in transit but ChrisW has this particular one.

 

Thanks Grant.... I'll wait until Chris replies... I'm pretty sure I'm going to add this to my toolbox.. not in a hurry, and that's probably a good thing with shipping delay...

 

You made mention of "this one"... but nothing came up if you attached something to the post.

 

Wheels will keep me busy for a tad yet.... to be sure..

 

frats,

Rosco

Edited by rosco01

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Hi Rosco

Just a little tip on your wheel machining,With many hundreds of wheels behind me & many mistakes,I found the best way to drill out the axel hole is to do it last before you part it off & use a small centre drill to find true centre then use the double drill method,where the first drill is .010" to .015" smaller than your finish size,the second drill [axel size] only takes minimal material & acts similar to a reamer.

Also all my Outside diameter turning I use a 2 mm wide carbide insert parting tool,there is not much load cutting ally & saves a lot of time.

Cheers Jimmy :D


To finsh first,first you gotta finish

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Thanks JImmy - I really appreciate feedback and advice - your's is great.

 

As you will read shortly, #2 wheel is now done... I have learned another lesson - when you turn anything - leave it in the chuck until all turning has been completed.. by golly, getting the rod back exactly centred again was a fait accompli.. I got there, but it took me ages... and even then, there was an extreme fine dusting when the cutter went across the first time - even though the dial test indicator showed 0.00.....

 

Yes, I have that carbide parting tool... or one exactly like it. They work a treat, and you are absolutely correct - they work fast.

Ordinarily, I'm taking cuts at only 0.15 mm a pass.... or 2 1/2 lines on the register of my cross-slide dial indicator... (it takes 0.025 per line, x2 for both sides of the cut = 0.05 per line..... x 2 1/2 = 0.15...... I'm happy with this... I also am using this slow cut/feed rate to practice producing fine finishes...

 

For the time being, I just like working across the ali slowly.. taking very slow cuts... it's probably fair to say that I am using the exercise as a learning tool, not just a production means..... I'm actually really enjoying this project - it is one of the first half dozen where I have tasked myself to produce something which is as close to my design spec as I can... getting there....

 

If I need to speed up the process - I can most certainly fit the carbide parting tool and cut at a much heavier rate.... I'll never wear out the cutting tool.... might wear out the carriage wheel.....

 

For internal rim work, I'm using the compound slide for depth of cut... locking the carriage and running the cutter out from the centre to where I have set ref 000 on the cross slide at the extremity of cut.... this has worked perfectly two days in a row...

 

I accept your suggestion and advice to drill the axle hole last... prior to parting off... it makes sense.... I will continue to drill a centring hole for the tailstock live centre.. I like having the security of keeping work captive between the chuck and tailstock.... parting off and drilling excepted....

 

Thanks again, Jimmy... great advice.

 

frats,

Rosco

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Hi folk,

as above - #2 wheel is done. I changed a couple of things when turning this wheel.. for 1, I decided that I'd turn the rim diameter down 0.5 mm larger - yesterday's wheel left a very slight gap between the rim and the tyre... I have now remedied that.

Also, I have now made the depth of the inner recess exactly 3.0 mm.... I measured the depth of Munter's wheel insert and I believe the 3 mm will be exactly where the insert will sit on the wheel centre face.. so - they should all simply be a push fit until fully home... pix a bit further in this post.

 

Ok - someone wanted me to show them my Mill and cutters.. I fired off a couple of pix...

 

In this pic, I have removed the ali rod from the lathe (mistake) and marked out all the grub screw holes for another 12 wheels....

You can see in this pic, that I have drilled down exactly 8.5 mm to the centre of the rod (17 mm rod). I did this for the remaining 11 wheels and then removed the ali rod - chucked it back into the lathe and spent a good hour getting it true again.... got there, but won't do that again....

 

01-8-5-mm-grub-depth-mail.jpg

 

This is a pic of most of the mill... it's has a 500 mm bed and has a 600W brushless DC motor. It is extremely heavy - I had to use my engine crane to unload it from the back of the 200... there was no way I could have lifted this on my own - or probably with another person..

 

02-Mill-mail.jpg

 

 

It was suggested to me in a previous post to use a slot drill for cutting out the wheel centre.. I knew I had some.. was a bit shocked to find that I have accumulated so many cutters...

In this pic, you can see the little square boxes - they are my full set of ER 25 collets... the 10 mm 2F (2 fluted) slot drill I laid centre most..

 

03-mill-cutters-mail.jpg

 

And on the bottom shelf of the stand locker - I found more of the blasted things... they must be breeding in there.... these ones were purchased on line well before I purchased the Mill... they will be fine, but I am using the ones from the supply catalogue from where I purchased the Mill...

 

04-Mill-cutters-2-mail.jpg

 

 

Ok, we have drilled all our grub screws... and I have created an "aluminium flute"

 

 

 

05-aluminium-flute-mail.jpg

 

 

Process was the same as yesterday (after setting that blasted rod true in the chuck again).... so, no further pix of process.

And here, we have wheel #2.... with wheel insert fitted.

You will note that the tyre sits against the rim now, and that the wall thickness of the rim is deeper.. I will turn all rims for these wheels to 12.5 mm now, not the 12.0 mm as for #1.

 

06-2-wheel-mail.jpg

 

 

And here we have both wheels on one axle, with bushes... it rolls beautifully along a flat surface with neither wheel showing any sign of being out of true... I'm pretty happy with this...

 

07-rear-axle-mail.jpg

 

 

Having one axle with wheels/tyres on it.. I just had to fit it under the body - I believe this looks proportional scale wise.. the tyres are too large in diameter and width... I will turn down the tyres to an appropriate size on the tyre truer later one... when we are in construction with the chassis....

 

08-scale-fit-mail.jpg

 

 

I ordered 48 mm axles... I believe these were correct. Track is a little wide - which will be reduced once the axle is fitted to the chassis.

Tyre tread is too wide as well.... I might have to live with this - the tyres are a great fit on these wheels.... and the inserts are just amazing.

I believe they are the true LJ XU-1 factory fitted Globe Sprintmaster wheels..... and further believe that in 1972 for "series production" racing - factory wheels had to be used... might be wrong, but this is my recollection of the series..

 

09-rear-track-mail.jpg

 

Ok folk, more wheel turning tomorrow - on the lathe, that is....

 

frats,

Rosco

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Hi Rosco et al,......A couple of responses to some questions/comments from previous posts.

 

In no particular order.............

 

1/The Precision Slot Car 1/32 Scratchbuilder jig (photo in previous post) is the one I have been building all my 1/32 cars on for quite a few years....make sure you get some set-up wheelblocks with it, (they are a godsend).

 

2/ The thickness of the brass in my chassis varies (.032/.040/.063) depending on, its purpose in the chassis, and, track/motor/tyres.

 

3/ The sidepans on the chassis are for weight/stability...I generally mount them to the main chassis rails in a way that does not interfere with the torsional rotation of the chassis, again, depending on motor/track/tyre conditions.

 

 

Lastly, for anyone interested in "smaller" dia. wheels, but does not have Roscos' tools/patience/talent.......here are a few variations, currently on the market...........I have used all these "smallies" and can recommend them highly/

 

 

For comparison, I have listed them from left to right.....Slot-it 15 x 8,....BWA/ RSSlot 15 x 7,...BWA/ RSSlot 13 x 5, and 13 x 7, and the RSSlot 10 x 5.

 

Both the 15" and 13" RSSlot wheels are patterned after the original BWA wheels......RSSlot made some improvements to the hub/grub screw positioning, and produced these after BWA stopped selling/producing.

 

The 10" wheels come in sets of 4, with 4 minilite inserts, and 4 urethane tires............they look and go great on anything using 10(ish wheels).

 

Both the 13" and 10" wheels are double flanged (no rib), and RS have a selection of tyres for each......you can also find tyres for these from Dart and Paul Gage.

 

 

DSCN4559.jpg

 

Here is a pic, of the 13" RSSlot wheels on a reworked MRRC Matra......13" is the correct size for any F1 car from the mid 60's onward

 

2003-12-31-23-00-00-131.jpg

 

 

Wheels and inserts from RSSlot racing.

 

2003-12-31-23-00-00-141.jpg

Edited by Chrisguyw

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Yes - I have quite a few slot drills... and 3 fluted ones plus the finishing 4 fluted ones. I use these in the Mill.. not the lathe.

 

The lathe is not as small as it looks in the pix... the drill chuck in the tail-stock can handle up to 13 mm ..... the motor is more than powerful enough to handle 13 mm.

 

It was suggested to me in a previous post to use a slot drill for cutting out the wheel centre.. I knew I had some.. was a bit shocked to find that I have accumulated so many cutters...

In this pic, you can see the little square boxes - they are my full set of ER 25 collets... the 10 mm 2F (2 fluted) slot drill I laid centre most..

 

Hi Rosco, you're going great, and learning heaps.

 

The best lessons learned are those when we try something, and it doesn't quite work out right.

We soon work out better ways.

 

Just for interest, those 3 and 4 fluted cutters you mention are not slot drills.

While they look the same, they are milling cutters (end mills).

 

The subtle difference between end mills and slot drills, is that slot drills are ground on the end in such a way that the cutting edges cover the full diameter (centre cutting), and can be plunged into the work piece without a pilot drill. they can also be used for side cutting (like an end mill).

 

End mills can't be plunged into the workpiece.

 

You've got a pretty good workshop happening there.

 

Looks like lotsa fun.

:)


Steve K.

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Thanks Chris,

Answers and information exactly as requested. I'll chase down purchase of the building jig shortly - I do have quite a number of models on the long range building program... I believe price is justified in my application.. I am thus believing the pic of the jig I posted previously is what you suggest appropriate. I will also order the wheel chocks - as advised.

 

Wheels - I had not considered the double flange type wheel - love to have a go at them now that I've seen some.

 

Yes, I used wheels from another US manufacturer - Ranch Design - they are on the little Coopers I have. they are a great wheel. I had one small issue with one of them, but it was easily overcome. He also made up tiny crown wheels and pinions for me.. and they are exquisite... far beyond my tooling skills at present.

I do have a dividing head and beveled tooth cutters etc. for my Mill... but I am way too inexperienced to attempt anything using those for now... we'll get there, let's just get these wheels coming off the production line before we go delving into anything more demanding.....

 

For the RD wheels, I used Paul Gage tyres... they were simply brilliant - between the wheels and tyres - they resulted in a great finish to the running gear of those little cars.

 

I will now stock up on brass strip of the sizes you make mention of.... I have quite a bit of piano wire and note that you have used a couple of different sizes for varying parts in the pix of chassis previously posted.

 

I simply love your work, Chris - it is clear you have a passion for detail... the spark plug leads did not go un-noticed... amongst other "macro" detail to bring the model to life... that Mattra simply looks stunning...

 

 

Thanks for posting pix of the wheels... the 13 x 6 would have been a perfect size for these Torana builds... but, I am more than happy with the Slot-It wheel size that I am using... the tyres were the issue - and I have now managed to overcome that.. albeit that they are too wide - this I can live with...

End of the day, I can turn up some different wheels using a narrower width if and when I find tyres that are more prototypical... the inserts will simply be transferred to those wheels... the inserts are simply magic.. thank you John.

 

I have much more respect for "off the shelf" wheels now - that I have had a dabble in turning some out of my own..

 

This, and other intricate detail in scratch building - is what brings an enormous amount of satisfaction to me in modeling... I am much more of a modeler than a racer... I drive like grandma - as I have stated on many occasions in this forum... I do have "offs".. but rarely anything other than de-slotting or spinning out. Certainly not of the proportion where the model leaves the track entirely....

 

Ok, let you know how I go with the building jig. I'll go ahead and order the one I posted above... plus wheelblocks.

 

Again, Chris - thank you... very much appreciated.

 

frats,

Rosco

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"The best lessons learned are those when we try something, and it doesn't quite work out right.

We soon work out better ways.

 

Just for interest, those 3 and 4 fluted cutters you mention are not slot drills.

While they look the same, they are milling cutters (end mills).

 

The subtle difference between end mills and slot drills, is that slot drills are ground on the end in such a way that the cutting edges cover the full diameter (centre cutting), and can be plunged into the work piece without a pilot drill. they can also be used for side cutting (like an end mill).

 

End mills can't be plunged into the workpiece."

 

 

 

Thanks Steve - yes, I'm pretty happy with what I have spoiled myself out there in.... just need more room to work within the very confined space all of this is housed within..... it's only 4 square garage, with one large 4WD in it plus an early Holden .... two welders, air compressor triple steel storage cupboard and quite a number of wood-working machines... plus a work bench... think you get the picture... the lathe and mill are in one corner - squeezing between both of them and the corner of one of the cars keeps my weight in discipline....

 

I will take a pic of the cutters you mention sometime today - for the benefit of those following this who are keen on learning about turning and cutting..

 

I have always applied the principle of "you don't know what you can do - until you find out what you can't" when it comes to "having a go"....

Sadly, many consider the challenge too great to attempt making a start - I have never had this issue.... made an enormous amount of mistakes - but, by the same token - I have managed to achieve things that are way beyond my belief that I could...

 

My scrap bins are always filled with failures - and my shelves likewise with proud products... I'm getting there - a very long way to go yet.. before I believe I will be comfortable with my levels of ability.... running out of years, Chris - life is way too short, and everything seems to come at the wrong end of it....

 

Ok, out to the freezing workshop/garage... hope to have another one accomplished today.. let's see if I have learned anything from the previous two...

 

Thanks again, Steve - I'll throw in a couple of pix of what you mention above when I come in for lunch... and "un-freeze"....

 

frats,

Rosco

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Hi folk, back again.....

Forgot to take some pix of the slot drills and end mills etc... tomorrow.

Freezing cold here today, well - felt like freezing... it was darned cold in the garage.

 

Ok, just a couple of pix to kick this off.... at the request of one following this thread.

I have a deep respect for equipment.. and one of the first things I added to my lathe after getting it, was to go to my feminine side and put my dress-maker's hat on... I made a canvas cover for it....

True canvas is brilliant at keeping moisture away from metal.. particularly when it's cold or humid... or both.

Cold steel on the highly polished surfaces of a lathe attract moisture in the air - we've all suffered from this.... left something precious out in the cold domain of a workshop for a day or two - and come back to find it has begun to develop surface rust.....

On a lathe, the precision and polished "ways" must be protected... I made up this canvas cover... and it is my practice to clean the lathe down and re-oil after every day's work.... discipline, if you like... but my little friend rewards me with affection - even after the abuse I deal out to it on occasion in use.

 

The old chaps used canvas.. and for a very good reason. The linen in the canvas attracts moisture from the air within... it "wicks" through to the outer surface of the canvas, and any airflow over the outside will evaporate or carry it off..... canvas is your friend, when it comes to looking after machinery.

 

Oil....

I was put onto a special oil, which surpisingly - is both cheap and readily available..... chain-saw bar oil.... the one recommended to me is Valvoline - by the supplier of my lathe.... it works brilliantly - and I am still on my first litre of it.. for both the lathe and the mill.....

 

My practice is to oil up after each session... and wipe the oil off before each session, other than a small amount on the working surfaces and ways to be used....

 

Ok - cover...

 

01-lathe-canvas-mail.jpg

 

I was further asked about where I store my lathe tools.... I bought the factory lathe stand and cabinet when I purchased the lathe - it was manufactured to perfectly accomodate this and a number of other mid-range hobby lathes.... there are two shelves inside the doors... I have filled both of those and sourced a set of drawers in a cabinet for the smaller tools.... this one came from Officeworks... it has 7 drawers... four small for measuring instruments, cutters, tools etc.. and three larger ones for heavier components and some "produced" tools (a test rod and a pair of circular squares were the first two items I made)..

You can see in this pic, the very limited room I have to work in... at the bottom of this pic is the rear of the old Holden... the narrow walkway between is my work space.

At left, we can see the Mill... and in the corner, a canvas covered Mig.... I'd probably have more "toys" in there if I had space.. but I don't... anything new must be accommodated by adding more shelves to the brick walls... I don't know if the ladder is shown in this pic.. but it has to live in there as well...

So, if you are contemplating a lathe - bear in mind, you really don't need a lot of room for one..... I hope I have attracted some interest..

 

Pic....

 

02-lathe-stand-and-tray-storage-mail.jpg

 

 

Ok - what took me all day on Wednesday - took just two hours today... and I have produced the best wheel yet. It is almost exact to within 0.01 mm of what I set out to achieve - in all dimensions. I am pretty chuffed with this one. I am learning how to determine the graduations in the slide wheels... and am taking far less time to turn down the metal... until nearing a close reading, when I start to take fine cuts...

 

And - take a bow, Jimmy - your advice to drill the axle in two passes with differing drills last before parting off - worked an absolute treat... the wheel slides along the axle just as good, if not better than the Slot-It one.... so good, in fact - that I am hoping wheel #4 will be as good.. and the pair will make my rear axle wheels.... and the first two independent free running front ones - as was done on the little Coopers.

I may make up another pair for the front - without grub screws... and shim them between the bush and hub of the wheel - retaining them with a washer and fitted eyelet... undecided yet, I don't believe these two models will be "peformance" cars... but, you never know - might be surprised.. really keen to build the brass plate/piano wired chassis now... thanks Chris W - I am chomping at getting into this part of the build now...

 

Here is wheel #3...

 

03-3-wheel-mail.jpg

 

04-3-wheel-mail.jpg

 

05-3-wheel-mail.jpg

 

06-3-wheel-mail.jpg

 

And finally, I lightly sanded down another of John's inserts... mounted the three wheels on axles and a Slot-It one on the front opposite side.... and sat the body on it at where I believe it will probably be close to end result.... I'm happy with this...

Pic isn't great.. the cream color of the body is playing havoc with the LED magnifying light I use for modeling fine detail with...

 

07-body-on-wheels-mail.jpg

 

 

Three down, one to go... good chance we'll have all four by tomorrow night... then, the next four - and maybe another set as spares...

 

frats,

Rosco

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Ok, shorty tonight folk....

Got those pix of the mill cutters....

These are all 10 mm cutters -

 

Pretty much self-explanatory... two flute (slot drill), three flute (expensive) and 4 flute (has been used)..

Also, a comparative pic of the faces of these cutters....

And finally - close up shot of the end face of the slot drill....

 

Pix....

 

01-mill-cutters-mail.jpg

 

 

02-mill-cutters-mail.jpg

 

 

03-mill-slot-drill-mail.jpg

 

 

Whilst I was scrummaging around in the cabinet..... found these - forgot I had them..... Mill boring tool set..

 

 

05-mill-boring-mail.jpg

 

 

 

Ok - now down to it....

 

We now have the first four wheels for this project... #4 completed today, almost in record time... but, there were issues this time.......

 

I learned a very important lesson - using the parting off tool to do left hand cuts... it's really not designed to be "worked" laterally.... well, at least the expensive one I have isn't.... it has a TiN blade insert... and whilst I was cutting across the pass.. the insert must have come loose for some reason - luckily, it was early in the cut and I was nowhere near the finishing right edge working back toward the step of the wheel....

 

I was able to knock it back into place and gave it an extra security tap into the jaws of the holder to be sure.... no further problem - but, I will be keeping an eye on the insert from now on - could have cost me a wheel quite easily.

 

I'm firmly of the opinion that I am going to make my own left hand cutting tool especially for these wheels.... I have made them before from HSS square blanks for other special jobs.... I have a couple of great books which tell me how to cut the angles for them... it will probably be the next report in this thread.. I hope to have it done by tomorrow night...

 

Four wheels down - and they are all within 0.05 of each other.. the two last ones are almost identical - save for a very slight difference in the height of the hub - which will make not one jot of difference to running of the model (that I know of).. I will shim the rear axle and spacing will be between the edge of the crown and the bush in the gearbox frame...on both sides of the crown - the hubs of the rear wheels will be free to air running....

 

 

I learned a further lesson today as well.... to trust the readouts on the slide dials.... I now know that four complete revolutions of both the cross slide and also the compound slide dial makes a cut of 0.02 mm short of 4 mm for the compound when cutting inwards from the end... and likewise for the cross-slide - but, of course this is doubled when cutting the diameter... because the cut is "doubled" (you are actually cutting both sides of the diameter....).

 

i don't know how many times in the past four days that i have cut the back of my hand on either the sharp point of the revolving centre - or one of the cutting tools..... trying to fit the digital calipers to the wheel to take measurements as the cuts proceeded....

I can now work on the dials... to within the last 0.25 of a mm ... and then bring in the calipers... it will be a lot easier and faster to use these dials.... and finish off with the calipers.

 

Ok - pic... all four done for the LJ...will do the four for the LC next - after tomorrow's adventure into tool making..

 

06-all-four-mail.jpg

 

 

 

until tomorrow...

 

 

frats,

Rosco

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Look at them sitting there. If you didn't have a thread about building wheels but just added a photo of them, I wouldn't have known the difference. Good job. Have a virtual 'pat on the back'.


bram1_zpsfkhrhndv.jpg

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Thanks for sharing the process involved in making these wheels, it has been fascinating and educational which makes for an interesting read.

Following on from Wobble's pat on the back, I'll crack a beer in your honour later on today (a real beer, not a virtual one!) for reaching this milestone.

I know, I know, the sacrifices I make to help other forum members...

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Thanks fella's.... I'm happy with them, and the learning process thus far has been very rewarding.

 

Toolmaker's hat on today...

 

Sadly, this thread is going to be a "grab bag" of a more universal build of the model - including processes, rather than simply a step by step presentation in assembling the model.... hope folk don't mind my digressions...

 

I am now in the throes of chassis design..

 

I have come up with some figures... (go to sleep now if you need the rest).

 

The track of the XU-1 is 52.5" front, 51.5" rear... I'm aiming at 52"... which scales down to 40.8 mm

 

I have taken the liberty of using the factory fitted 6" XU-1 with spacers to arrive at an outside overall distance of 46.03 mm... which I will call as 46.0 mm.

To get to that, I added 3" each side of the track... times 2... the 3" being the track centre line of the wheel... so we have 52" + 3 + 3 = 58"... scaled = 46 mm.

 

So, if I set the overall distance of the outside of my rims to 46 mm... they will be scale correct... the tyres will go a bit wider.. but I have no information on what tyres were fitted to the Bathurst car of PB's... we can "fudge" a bit of "fat" allowance for tyres.. but, I want the rims where they should be.

 

Wheelbase of the 6 cylinder Torana is 100" which scaled down = 79.35 mm...... so, we now have some figures to go take a peek at.

I might make up a ply/mdf blank to fit into the body, and see how it lines up .... until this scratchbuilder's jig turns up.... hope there is an easterly wind blowing behind the cargo jet.....

 

Thanks for the virtual pats, chaps.... and yes, I am thinking that virtual beer was enjoyed in my honor... not that I indulge, myself....

 

Until next..

 

frats,

Rosco

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Ok folk,

left hand late knife tool all done.... stop reading now if you don't want details...

 

As mentioned, I'm not in love with using the parting tool for turning down the rim and hub on the left side of the step.... so, I decided to make my own "knife" tool.... a left hand one... not used very often in turning, but almost a Godsend when needed for special jobs such as this...

 

I used an 8 mm square HSS (High Speed Steel) blank... they are very cheap and extremely versatile.... pic

 

01-8-mm-HSS-blank-mail.jpg

 

 

I have a few turning and machining books which I have picked up as an introduction and guide to my foray into metal machining some four years back... off and on.

I haven't done much, other than to make a few tools and some bits and pieces when parts could not be purchased...

In one of these books, it explains how to make your own turning tools.... and I decided a couple of years back to at least try and make one.... with mixed results, but all the time increasing my knowledge of how the variables in turning are determined...

 

When grinding HSS - it is imperative that the steel not be over-heated.... if it turns blue, due to heat - you may as well throw the bit in the bin.. it will never be useful for turning. We know this with HSS drill bits.... once they go "blue".. they will not cut, and if re-sharpened - the edge might last for as long as it takes to locate it on the work..... so, small amounts and lots and lots of "quenching" in cold water...

 

It took the best part of 20 minutes to remove the material to get down to the side angle... I wanted a long nose at a fairly acute angle so that I could get into the aluminium of the wheel without wasting a great chunk of material at left of the cut.... the angle I chose for this is 30 deg although in a later pic, you'll see that I have penciled in 190 deg.... being that from square......... pic...

 

 

02-sida-angle-mail.jpg

 

 

The next grind is to make a "rake" angle across the top of the tool..... this rake produces a relief angle for the removed material to move away from the cutting edge.

Changing this rake angle is sometimes made for different metals... but, for steel and ali.. I decided to make the angle 10 deg.... pic

 

 

03-top-rake-mail.jpg

 

 

At some time, out in the cold when my fingers were struggling to cope and I could no longer feel my toes - I made the corporate decision to actually scribble some diagrams with angles on them... for reference...

 

Here is the rake angle...

This rake angle also has to have some side relief... and I decided on 5 degrees... again, the side relief on the rake angle allows material to deflect away from the cutting edge... although it might not be clear.. very hard to get a pic at this angle... pic

 

 

04-rake-angle-mail.jpg

 

 

 

And the side angle... pic

 

 

05-side-angle-mail.jpg

 

 

 

And the side relief angle of the rake..... the tool is below the diagram.... it's a bit hard to see - and my hands were shaking from the cold out there... pic..

 

 

06-rake-relief-angle-mail.jpg

 

All that remains now is to hone this tool down on a diamond stone.... and to effect a very slight "round" nose to the point of the cutting edge.

The rounding off the nose is only one or two light passes with the diamond stone... it just takes the extremely sharp point off the cutting edge. It does not remove the extremely sharp cutting edge on either side of the rake, nor from the top of this introduced "nose"...

 

 

So - in 20 minutes or so working on my desk... I'll take it out into the garage... and let's see if it works....

 

Back later...

 

frats,

Rosco

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