SlotsNZ Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 I have a conundrum, I am thinking to allocate funds for one new toy when lock-down is over, but have not decided which one. 3D printer or 3D scanner or Decal printer All interest me, and each has pros and cons My limitations I have some drafting background on paper and CAD - I designed and drew our first two house builds, but have no 3D CAD experience, and am artistically/creatively challenged. I am pretty good on PCs, but just at a user level - tinkering, not full on coding. I can use basic design tools like Publisher and have used a bit of Photoshop, but nothing serious for decal design I am mildly competent with mechanical things - only at the hobbyist level. I used to resin cast before munter got into it, I could also go back to doing some things like scenery, wings etc, that don't waste time trying to do what he does so much better. In club we have some core capabilities Munter on casting and vacuum moulding Capri-corn and Bingo have Ender5 3D printers Bingo is already showing the strength of both his engineering profession and mind, and his 3D CAD skills. Bingo also has a lathe, and can do more than me, I can do a bit with mine Mac comes up with crazy ideas to re-invent cars that work, so we create more fun things to do. So I am thinking maybe a 3D scanner, it we can also tinker with the files created in the scanner before printing. This scanner is about where I would be pitching This scanner was developed by Scan Dimension, based in Denmark, and is essentially a hybrid solution. It uses a combination of laser triangulation and white light technology to 3D scan real-life objects. The SOL 3D scanner can provide a resolution of up to 0.1 mm. The 3D scanning process is automated and you can choose between a near and far scanning mode. The SOL 3D scanner also includes software to simplify your entire workflow. In a few steps you will be sending your 3D model to your 3D printer. This is a solution meant for makers, hobbyists, educators and entrepreneurs who may not have the most experience with 3D scanning devices but still want to achieve great results. The SOL 3D scanner retails for US$699. If I got a 3D printer, the Ender5 Pro is hard to beat. I haven't looked at which model or technology decal printer I would get as yet. - Thoughts guys 1 Quote Recovering Lapsed Slot Addict * Custodian of many used screws (mostly loose ) * Total kidder * Companion of other delusional slot addicts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro51 Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 Don't hold back, all the above. I need a vynil printer to print internal decals for my RC bikes, but my being able to race said bikes is probably a couple of years away, when we can safely travel again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaynus Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 I would try and do some research on how usable the files from the 3D scanner would be, in regards to being easily modified by 3rd party software. Not saying they can't (I don't know), but may be worth seeing what people are saying online. I brought a cheap hand held 3D scanner on sale from Jaycar weeks ago in the "before time" (practicing lockdown), but haven't had a chance to road test it yet. This thread just may be the kick in the pants I need to pull my finger out. Having said that, I love the idea of the 3D scanner, as long as reality meets expectations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlotsNZ Posted April 11, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2020 We have also been kicking around the idea of a 3D area of forum behind the scenes, and had not decided yet on whether to have sub forums. But I think as I consider it more, to have the head forum divided into one for 3D printers and printing tech, one for 3D scanning/scanners - including software used in 3D, and one that covers library files and workshop/products made might be a reasonable way to go. Product reviews could also go into the appropriate area of the 3 sections above. We probably don't need sub forums NOW, but would be useful later, and not have to move threads later.... Quote Recovering Lapsed Slot Addict * Custodian of many used screws (mostly loose ) * Total kidder * Companion of other delusional slot addicts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munter Posted April 11, 2020 Report Share Posted April 11, 2020 If you buy a scanner....what are you going to scan and why? I guess you will scan something that is already made and why? To reproduce it? Get the two printers is my advice. Quote John Warren Slotcars are my preferred reality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaynus Posted April 11, 2020 Report Share Posted April 11, 2020 I've been trying to hunt down a Suzuki Swift SCX for a good price as that is my daily driver. My just have to 3D scanner mine instead! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaynus Posted April 11, 2020 Report Share Posted April 11, 2020 Hmmm, had a quick go at scanning my car, but with no luck. Mind you glaring bright sunlight and hot temperatures (mid 30s - it's Easter for crying out loud!) And my lack of experience probably didn't help. My try something smaller! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangermouse Posted April 11, 2020 Report Share Posted April 11, 2020 (edited) What these guys are doing with 3D scanning is interesting. https://www.modelu3d.co.uk/figures/ Basically they will scan you - dressed however you like and produce a scale figure for your slot car - model train or what ever. I wonder how big their market is I am a bit with John on the 3D scanning - what is it you want to scan. Then you ask yourself would it be better to design the object in a 3D program instead. If one of the ideas is to scan a car body then how much work is involved in cleaning up the scanned item so that it is suitable to print. I saw a 3D printer that did printing - CNC milling and laser cutting - if I new how to design anything on a computer I would have fun with one of those. cheers DM Edited April 11, 2020 by dangermouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinno Posted April 11, 2020 Report Share Posted April 11, 2020 I’m not sold on 3D printing yet, resin bodies are so much better when it comes to detail. Muster is doing the best resins for what we want at present so I think don’t waste tour time on a 3D printer. I think decals are the go as Patto has the market cornered but there are plenty of decals he doesn’t do that could be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Carter Posted April 11, 2020 Report Share Posted April 11, 2020 Given we already have two 3d printers and the skills to design things to print in club now I wouldn't bother with that. 3d scanner might be handy for scanning stuff that you can easily get in larger than 1/32 scale and play with software to print in 1/32 but you would probably be better to find and get that sort of thing online or learn how to write it up yourself and get Pat or Bingo to print it for you. Plus the quality of 3d printed bodies isn't fine enough yet, they take a lot of sanding/filling to get looking nice. I would only bother with that to get a body that I really wanted and couldn't get it any other way. I would go for a good quality decal printer myself Quote Holdens rule the rest just drool slot cars are my drug, ATCC/Bathurst proxy host NZ Grp5 proxy host. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangermouse Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 I print my own decals using photo settings on an inkjet printer I am happy with the results - resolution wise they are comparable to bought decals the only issue of course is I can't print white. Unfortunately white is quite prominent in race car liveries I haven't looked so no idea what is required or the cost (though I might have a look) but if the price was reasonable enough I consider a printer that I could use to print white decals. I don't think designing decals using a vector drawing program would be any harder than learning to design 3D models (I think it would be easier for myself) and you can find lots of vector graphics of popular sponsor logos. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattcrackers Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 Like you have said you already have people doing the 3D printing and Resin bodies. If you can make decals then you're just adding to the pool. And like Vinno has said above, there's still plenty of decals that Pattos doesn't make. Now if we could just get someone to make cheap metal wheels, or how to do them myself. Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlotsNZ Posted April 12, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 Keep the thoughts coming guys. Pluses and minuses - all helps me think clearly... okay, that may be too big an ask, perhaps "helps me think less fuzzily" is more realistic. I should add, I wasn't specifically thinking of scanning car bodies, as the definition of these scanners is only 0.1mm, so you would need some kind of smoothing program to flatten the scanned surfaces. I was thinking scenic items, maybe some wings, complex shapes that aren't so easy to cast in single part moulds... But there are also other uses for 3D scanners outside the slot world. I could see me doing things for our primary teacher daughter For 3D print, as Dave says, we have 2 in club already,, but there are some great product libraries out there we don't have a decal printer, but then I am not sure I am creative or patient enough to design the whole decal sets. Stubbo - if you're around, would appreciate your thoughts on the complexity and current software v hardware on decal printing. I did like Pedro's thought . . . . . but he also probably knows Glenda would call Bronwyn asking for help to dig me in for fertiliser. Quote Recovering Lapsed Slot Addict * Custodian of many used screws (mostly loose ) * Total kidder * Companion of other delusional slot addicts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeGas Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 Mark, My 2c would be 3D printer & Decal printer, then decide you don't really want the decal printer and sell it to me half price, then buy the scanner. Quote Cheers Grant . Home Track..........Corvette C1 Build..........McLaren M1A Build..........Maserati 300S Build..........Allard J2 Build..........50's Diner..........Iso Griffo A3C 3D Printed Adjustable Chassis..........3D Print Projects If life gives you lemons, take them, free s#!t is cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangermouse Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 Well I won't be buying a decal printer that can print white anytime soon. My brief look revealed OKI does a laser printer capable of printing white. Now I may have chosen incorrectly but I thought I was picking the base model - haven't found a price yet - but someone had a 2nd hadn't one for sale for $4000 - and the toner cartridge work out at about $425 each (and there are 5 of them) so I will stick to my ink jet - and order from Pattos or there is a place in Sydney that will print out an A4 sheet of white decals for you for ~$20 - you send them a page of the graphics you need in black and they post back a sheet of white decals. I made one sheet up a year or so ago and still haven't used all the decals and I am about to do another one. So I have around 2500 A4 sheets to go before I could justify buying a printer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munter Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 (edited) There was a guy in the US who wanted to buy a CNC mill and lathe but he didnt know what he wanted it for other than make a few chassis pieces. He spent big and since then I have seen nothing from him. Maybe you should pause for a while and try to figure out what the need is, what the problem is that you are trying to solve. I know a guy who has or had four tire truing lathes...he a had a problem he needed to solve. So look for a tool to solve your problem once you know what the problem is....until then hold fast me hearty. Edited April 12, 2020 by munter Quote John Warren Slotcars are my preferred reality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlotsNZ Posted April 12, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 There was a guy in the US who wanted to buy a CNC mill and lathe but he didnt know what he wanted it for other than make a few chassis pieces. He spent big and since then I have seen nothing from him. Maybe you should pause for a while and try to figure out what the need is, what the problem is that you are trying to solve. I know a guy who has or had four tire truing lathes...he a had a problem he needed to solve. So look for a tool to solve your problem once you know what the problem is....until then hold fast me hearty. Yeah, I know what you're saying - but that guy with the tyre lathe issue - nutter first degree, lights sometimes on, nobody home - I'm not like like that guy ...... Quote Recovering Lapsed Slot Addict * Custodian of many used screws (mostly loose ) * Total kidder * Companion of other delusional slot addicts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalbfellp Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 I have 3 Alps type printers for doing decals, they WERE reasonably priced some years ago, but now long out of production. A reconditioned one from Japan is around $1000 plus postage and ribbons are getting harder to find and price is increasing. The OKI is the cheapest printer capable of white printing BUT do are not as good to underlay the white needed for good decals. When I looked at the OKI a few years ago they were around $5000 and toner around $500. Any Laser printer will print Colour decals with good results, but not white of course. Quote Phil https://www.hobartminiaturecarclub.com/ Email Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munter Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 Laser jet vs inkjet, that is the question. It was a vote for laser a while back then more recently I read inkjet was the thing.... so is either ok or does one have the edge these days? Quote John Warren Slotcars are my preferred reality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaynus Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 I managed to score a colour laser print for free a few weeks ago. I was looking for one as the Avery clear labels need to be printed on with a laser printer. I haven't tried it as yet. The idea was to print decals onto a clear background. Still doesn't print white, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalbfellp Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 Some inkjet colours are very poor, and they need sealing before use. You can use white decal paper in the laser and try and match the body Colour around the decal. Quote Phil https://www.hobartminiaturecarclub.com/ Email Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaynus Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 I have tried that technique too, with various levels of success. My else cheapo inkjet doesn't print as sharply as I would like. I guess the ink bleeds into the decal paper a little. I hope the laser produces sharper lines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesx Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 Hi all. If you do not have white transparency paper you can use clear but paint white where decal is going unless of course your car is already white. I always use Debonder on my decals but you still need to give a good coat of clear if I want them to survive. Tassie Phil did some great Sunoco decals for my Ford Capri Group 5 but I obviously skimped on clear coat as some of decals have not survived. Fortunately he gave me some spares so I must redo. I might even give it a motor up-grade while I am at it. Regards Chas Le Breton (charlesx) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaynus Posted April 26, 2020 Report Share Posted April 26, 2020 I am going to have a go at "making" my own 3D scanner. The el-cheapo XYZ hand held scanner was a bit of a bust. With a bit more patience it may have been alright, but user interface and support was pretty poor. My next "plan" (I use that term loosely...) Is to use a Kinect (motion/shape sensor) from an Xbox 360 (Microsoft gaming console) as a 3D scanner. According to the Interwebs it can be done. Have brought the components cheap (cable cost more than the console and sensor!), so at comfortably under $100 I possibly have a 3D scanner and a (several generations old) gaming console! Wish me luck, I'll keep you posted. If it works I'll start a new thread in the 3D printing section. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlotsNZ Posted April 26, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2020 You be another one of those clever beggars this hobby attracts eh Shaynus ? Quote Recovering Lapsed Slot Addict * Custodian of many used screws (mostly loose ) * Total kidder * Companion of other delusional slot addicts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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