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Magnetic Effect On Motor Performance


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#1 jphanna

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 02:34 PM

guys, maybe this has been brought up long time ago, maybe not.....given 2 motors, say 23K

1. one has magnetic effect
2. one does not

in just motor performance only, (not handling) does the fact that the motor with 'magnetic effect ', actually out perform their non magnetic effect counterpart?

is there more low down grunt?
is there more top end?
none of the above?
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#2 charlesx

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 10:16 PM

Hi jphanna.

No expert on this matter but Magnetic effect motors are mainly for magnet racing on plastic track or races on wood with magna braid. I do not believe of any benefit on an ordinary track as normal braid or copper is not magnetic. Not sure though if magnets in motor are stronger and hence motor is more powerful. Sure somebody will be able to tell you this. Competitions also often provide a magnetic effect limit which is measured with a magnet marshal apparatus. Hope this is of some help. Regards Chas Le Breton (charlesx)

#3 Peter Gunn

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 10:27 PM

The answer generally is yes, i have run the Slot it 23 against the B.R.M 23 and noted the following .

1.on any plastic track with metal rails the BRM outperforms the Slot it in every department, for the obvious reasons the magnetic effect.

2. On wood track with copper tape the BRM has a quicker acceleration pick up, but the main gain with this motor is breaking, will out break the Slot it with the same configuration and gearing every time gained 4 tenths a lap, both geared at 3 to 1 inline, or 11 to 32 sidewind

3. Reasons why in my opinion, taking the BRM motor first being a mag type motor the magnets in the can are better so you get more performance out of it, and looks such a plain motor , but has the performance , turning to the Slot it the current motor is a very good motor with good improved brush gear retention, but in a direct comparison my choice for performance is the BRM, i cannot speak on other mag S cans as i don't own any but guessing like for like the better magnets in those cans should give similar performance .

#4 difinity

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Posted 13 April 2019 - 06:43 AM

In the ‘older’ days, we called it ‘having good magnets’.
A stronger or higher magnetic field will create more torque, and if the brushes and arm wind allow, more rpm.

With the sealed motors we run today, you can’t really adjust these parts to get the effect you want, but a higher mag motor can always be geared taller, giving more speed. I used a Dodo in one lemans car a couple of years ago to run on a commercial track. Had to gear it at about 1.4:1 to smooth it out. Undrivable on my copper braid track because it was so aggressive.

The other advantage of these motors is in magnet racing as noted above.

Best to find the motor you are allowed to run, and set your car up for smooth running (balance, gearing etc) rather than rely on the mag effect alone IMHO.

#5 Kevan

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 06:28 AM

You can only compare motors if they have the same performance, OK both are 23k what are the torque figures and power output? I bet they're totally different. Don't be blinded by the peak revs figure, it's only one of many aspects of a motor, you can easily get a lower rpm motor lapping quicker than a higher rpm motor if the other characteristics are more favourable.
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#6 jphanna

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 10:55 AM

thanks for the insight guys.

it makes sense that if a motor has stronger magnets that it should perform better.

btw...i never set up a car for magnetic effect only. always set up on copper braid. magnetic effect, if its avail at a certain venue, is a bonus.
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#7 Peter Gunn

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 07:11 AM

I have noticed something going on with certain motors , i bought a couple of Pioneer 18k motors for the ATCC proxy last time out as i thought they were better than the SRP 18k motor i was going to use, magnet wise and brake wise .
Thinking about getting a car ready for later on this year i ordered a SRP speed 18k actually for a differant car , on looking at the two SRP motors i noticed the speed 18k had a magnet effect , i,m not that scientific but use the screw driver test, in other wise put a screwdriver across the case and test the magnet effect now on the unused older motor you can't pick it up with screw driver as it falls of as soon as you lift it up but on the new one not only can you pick it up it stays magnetised to the screwdriver.
Now this is just my way of testing motors but to my mind the later SRP18K S can has better magnets and seems to run a lot better with no load on it , now my theory is that these motors are made in batches and i,m guessing possibly by a differant maker so again possibly the later one's have been uprated in that way.
Now thinking furthur i tried this with a earlier Slot it 23 and the latest one both not been used and found the magnet pull very similar to the SRP the later motor seems to have better magnets, the only reason i mention this is some people race classes with all using the same motor , and lads it may not be exactly the same motor after all.

#8 Caddo

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Posted 13 June 2019 - 12:09 AM

The 18k pioneer motor is similar to the Scaley 18k motor spec but I believe is generally slower overall not sure if it is magnets torque or max rpm but noticed a difference as I lost some races heats which really excites me now I read peter gunns post above and thought I would try and express my views on these motors which has generally been why bother as when motors are limited racers either go one of two ways buy twelve motors to find one good one or tamper with one motor to get better performance I normally do neither until I realise I am so much slower in a straight line then I request a sanction to move forward anyhow this is not the only way clubs race as I hear regularly that motor management is a regular challenge at most race meets I think open motors are the best rule as the track surface and tyres will dictate how much forward momentum can be had and this stops people from tampering with motors well maybe anyway :)

#9 Wobble

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Posted 13 June 2019 - 07:20 AM

View PostCaddo, on 13 June 2019 - 12:09 AM, said:

The 18k pioneer motor is similar to the Scaley 18k motor spec but I believe is generally slower overall not sure if it is magnets torque or max rpm but noticed a difference as I lost some races heats which really excites me now I read peter gunns post above and thought I would try and express my views on these motors which has generally been why bother as when motors are limited racers either go one of two ways buy twelve motors to find one good one or tamper with one motor to get better performance I normally do neither until I realise I am so much slower in a straight line then I request a sanction to move forward anyhow this is not the only way clubs race as I hear regularly that motor management is a regular challenge at most race meets I think open motors are the best rule as the track surface and tyres will dictate how much forward momentum can be had and this stops people from tampering with motors well maybe anyway :)

The Pioneer motors have a 9mm armature stack (at least the ones I've measured, same as SRP 18k) where as the Scaleys stack is a bit over 8mm. I think this makes a difference in straight line speed unless the car is running inline 3:1. eg I put a Pioneer motor in a Carrera Dodge Avenger COT and it was brilliant. Blew off all the Scaley Nascars.
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#10 jphanna

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Posted 13 June 2019 - 08:11 AM

regardless of brand, with identical gearing the differences between one motor and the sister (identical gearing) , can be staggering. i introduced a numbering system using a black texta on the can.

1 to 10. 10 being a screamer. anything under 7, I throw in the bin or use it for a track lane scrubber.
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#11 mattcrackers

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Posted 13 June 2019 - 09:33 PM

I have read elsewhere from Jules of Pioneer that the 18k motors are now up to their 5th generation.

We run them at WASCRG and there are plenty of differences between cars.

#12 Caddo

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Posted 13 June 2019 - 10:32 PM

Interesting views, thanks for the input all





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