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axman

Mission Statement - Consistency Of Rules

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Just a reminder.

 

The lexan pieces are optional. If you guys want to race the class at club level, you are welcome to stay with the hard plastic. However, as we can expect - at National level, competitors will use every possible way to improve their car performance. So please see the National ruleset in this context.

 

Cheers,

 

Jan

 

Same with the front wheels . The smaller diameter wheels are optional ,but if you want to use them you will need to change the axle supports as well .

 

The only optional wheels allowed under the current national ruleset are the RTR Scaleauto front and rear hard sponge rubber wheels, they have the same 21.0mm rim diameter as the the standard wheels and the overall wheel diameter quoted in the ruleset does not require any changes of the axle holders. The only axle holders allowed under the ruleset are those what come standard on the car when it is bought.

 

Again, if your club or local group make changes, that is fine - but those changes may not be inline with our National ruleset (which is designed to fit the needs at National level).

 

Cheers,

 

Jan


'The older I get the faster I was.'

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I was referring to the new chassis and proposed rules . Which if I read correctly states a minimum starting diameter of 25mm . To use a wheel that size you will need to change the axle holders . No?

I have the new chassis with Scaleauto hard foams with a 26.5mm overall diameter and it is right on the 1mm clearance .

The proposed rules actually list the alternate axle holders , and state they can be used .

Edited by pmdaniels

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Yep, that's one of the issues with the new lower front end...

Even with the stock rubber there is not a lot of ground clearance.

 

 

That said, I've never understood why you are allowed to add spacers, but not allowed to change the blocks...

Seems counter intuitive to me.

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I was referring to the new chassis and proposed rules . Which if I read correctly states a minimum starting diameter of 25mm . To use a wheel that size you will need to change the axle holders . No?

I have the new chassis with Scaleauto hard foams with a 26.5mm overall diameter and it is right on the 1mm clearance .

 

Understood. We appreciate all the input we can get regarding the new SC8000 chassis, but we must be clear in our posting when we refer to it (not to confuse the discussion between the SC8003 and SC8000 chassis versions. There is no official national rules currently in existence to govern the use of the new SC8000 chassis at National Events. The aim will be to have such inclusion (if at all possible) for our race year starting in 2018.

 

However, to your point - when (and if) the new SC8000 chassis is included in the 2018 ruleset, I believe common sentiment will again sit with only allowing standard parts - as it comes with the RTR car. The only allowable changes will be in line with the current thinking for improved competition at National level, but will not include changes which does not leave the car as close to the RTR car as you buy it.

 

The new chassis discussion will no doubt take place in due course, but we all first of all need to understand it - so please continue to give us the input.

 

Cheers,

 

Jan


'The older I get the faster I was.'

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Yep, that's one of the issues with the new lower front end...

Even with the stock rubber there is not a lot of ground clearance.

 

Michael,

 

Could you possibly post a photo of this problem. It will be very helpful if you could clearly show the mounting of the guide tongue.

 

Thanks,

 

Jan


'The older I get the faster I was.'

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Unfortunately, I don't personally have one.

 

I've never setup a car to run on the guide, and the clearance issues are for the lowest chassis plate to the track.

With the stock springs, very little force is needed to get the chassis to touch, and it really doesn't like to lift back up either.

 

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Jan has asked me to comment regarding the new Scaleauto chassis (am I cannon fodder?). I bought one of these to try quite a while ago and I posted a few photos on facebook. I'm happy to post them here, but to be honest I've not seen how to place an attachment in this forum. Perhaps I don't have permission?

The Facebook item is here https://www.facebook.com/SASlotcarRacing/posts/1823713111240672

 

Jan has made mentioned issues with clearances and with adjusting for other bodies.

The adjustment is in steps, whereas the old chassis can slide, so I can see the potential for issues. However does anyone run anything but a viper these days? That's an issue in itself...

 

Initially I didn't see an issue with clearances till I measured.. - BA-BOW, thanks for playing. So yes, even with 26.4mm front tyres on my new chassis, the front of the chassis does not clear 1mm with the guide out of play. DOH! (Jan, you set me up! I am cannon fodder! :P )

 

So yes, that's a problem!

 

Are we ready to workshop solutions yet?

 

1) Alternate bearing holders?

2) Larger tyres or rims will cause other issues

3) Back to 1), I'm out

 

As for the chassis touching the track, a number of the other brands do this now under the right conditions, but this will go away when harder springs go in, and they will, IMHO.

Certainly on the 2 Adelaide tracks soft suspension doesn't generally work.

 

As we know this class has a starting height of 1.8 minimum but every other model we race, Slotworx, Plafit, OPAR are all 1 mm. If this were extended to ScaleAuto the problem "almost" goes away?

 

What is happening with these chassis in their place of origin? Do they not care about ground clearance in Europe?


David Robson

Slotmasters 1/32 http://www.slotmasters.org

SA Slotcars 1/24 https://www.facebook...ASlotcarRacing/

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Further to this, I went on to take further measurements. The bearing holders on teh new chassis are indeed taller 13.48 mm. Whereas the trusty old ones are 12mm.

So I swapped them. Guess what? Legal height, 1.8mm. "Ta-DA!" :)


David Robson

Slotmasters 1/32 http://www.slotmasters.org

SA Slotcars 1/24 https://www.facebook...ASlotcarRacing/

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As we know this class has a starting height of 1.8 minimum but every other model we race, Slotworx, Plafit, OPAR are all 1 mm. If this were extended to ScaleAuto the problem "almost" goes away?

What is happening with these chassis in their place of origin? Do they not care about ground clearance in Europe?

 

.....Yes, they certainly do care about ground clearance in Europe.....

 

Let me give you some further info on the cars I have built and tested to the suggested regulations I have mentioned a few posts back :

A38aaO.jpg

 

This Z4 uses all chassis parts it came with as an RTR car. Obviously the RTR wheels/tires and the gear have been exchanged.

Front tire diameter is 26.3mm, the size for the rears is 27.5mm. Front bearing holder are the 8mm and 9mm at the rear. Ground

clearance front is 1.1mm and 1.2mm at the rear of the chassis. However a 1mm plastic spacer was required underneath the rear

bearing holders. A correction to the body hight set up was done with a few M2 washers at the body mounts.

 

As Scaleauto supply their new RTR cars and car kits with different sized chassis parts (bearing holders, t-plates and h-plates) which

are necessary to fit all 8 body types, these parts have been simply added as alternative options to the SC8003 regulations.

 

Q0KYix.jpg

 

If Scaleauto would have designed the new chassis plate with longholes for weelbase adjustment, then a standard chassis with all the same

parts could have been achieved. But this is not so. Therefore the different chassis parts for almost each body type.

 

With the old SC8000 chassis and cars, I changed the ground clearance down to 1mm using spacers and smaller diameter tires for a performance

test against the BMW Z4. This resulted in very similar lap times although the Z4 body featured all standard parts without any Lexan bits.

Because of the superior new chassis design there is also no typical body rattle (what a relieve !).

 

So, according to all this information from Europe, it would not be worthwhile to try and incorporate any new regulations for the new chassis into the old ones.

Concentrate on the SC8003 format but include the old chassis cars in any race events under their existing rules with a few modifications in regard to the

1mm ground clearance and reduced minimum tire diameter. This would mean to have these cars racing together but with a different classification.

Only my suggestion......

 

Cheers

Werner

Edited by wwwace

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So Werner, are you saying European racing has dropped the height to 1.1mm?

I found the rules for the Nordic Championships this year and this chassis (8003) is excluded.

However, their ground clearance rules are lot different!

"The ground clearance at the start of every race is never less than 1.2 mm."

 

However, I'm not sure why we need to do this unless we are hell bent on the car being RTR, which they aren't, because you have to change the wheels at least (not to mention the blue-printing!)

 

I would like to see the new chassis being used. We aren't seeing substantially faster lap times but it makes sense they could go faster. They may allow the other bodies beside Viper to become competitive.

 

It seems to me that maintaining 1.8mm is achievable. But it looks like 1.2 will align us with Overseas? However I have not seen evidence that they will use the 8003 chassis, so that seems a moot point.

 

Why do we currently run 1.8mm when Overseas the cars are lower? I'd need the reason for why the rule exists to understand why we should change it. The 8003 can be set at 1.8 if that's where we want to stay.


David Robson

Slotmasters 1/32 http://www.slotmasters.org

SA Slotcars 1/24 https://www.facebook...ASlotcarRacing/

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Thanks for your input Werner... I am surprised Scaleauto has "complicated" things by having a mix and match formula for different body types. Appreciate you sharing this knowledge so we can all get a better understanding of which way the 2018 rules should be steered for the benefit of all.

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Hi Kim,

 

That link you sent me is fantastic, thank you. I hope you don't mind me sharing it here with everyone. It certainly highlights the fact that some prominent European Scale Model Car racing countries are no example when it comes to how they agree rules - some just don't:

 

http://www.grandprixhistory.org/around_the_world.htm

 

Enjoy the read everyone.

 

Cheers (Kim),

 

Jan

 

 


'The older I get the faster I was.'

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Yep, it's a great Slot Car ( :unsure: Model Car ) trip around the Word. Full credit goes to a post by Dennis David on the international slot forum. He has done a mammoth amount of work with his mission to travel the world and just see what everyone is racing. If you click on each high-lighted link in blue it will take you to each of the raceway's web site or Facebook page.

Edited by axman

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Hi Benno,

 

Thanks for sharing. It is good to see that they are sticking with Scaleauto parts.

 

Cheers,

 

Jan


'The older I get the faster I was.'

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Kim,

 

Google Chrome / right click / Translate


Cheers,

 

Garry J

 

Slotworx_Logo_Small.jpg

 

Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill

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"Grandprix of the world" what a great link i rely enjoyed checking out all those tracks and there are some great links

 

i noticed on the Dutch ScaleAuto ruleset link from Benno they allow the use of rear suspension i wonder if we will go that way here in OZ?


Race Ya Later

 

Jason

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Had a look at one of the new a ScaleAuto chassis last night, it started life as a BMW ( Z4 I think ) kit, had a Porsche body mounted to it, and fits straight onto the Viper body.

Going by the adjustments available on the T plate, it will miss out on fitting a Jag by a mm or two, so probably the same for the big BMW and the Merc..

There are 3 mounting positions for the T plate on the main plate, each is 4.5 mm apart, and 3 positions for the front axle holders on the T plate, each is 2.25 apart.

Front springs are so soft that as soon as the car starts moving, the front of the main plate scraps on the track.

 

I'm going to grab one later this week to have a better look, and more of a play.

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"i noticed on the Dutch ScaleAuto ruleset link from Benno they allow the use of rear suspension i wonder if we will go that way here in OZ?

 

Jason,

 

We have always tried to stay as close to what comes out the box, so I don't see the rear suspension getting into the Aussie rules any time soon.

 

Cheers,

 

Jan


'The older I get the faster I was.'

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Quick question, how close is the suspension front axle mounts to a suspension t plate?

Might be that if we allow it and a few carbon parts on the old chassis, they should be similar.

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Quick question, how close is the suspension front axle mounts to a suspension t plate?

Might be that if we allow it and a few carbon parts on the old chassis, they should be similar.

 

Hi Shadow ,

 

Did you mean something like this ?

 

09_EEC694-21_C6-471_A-8_D50-4_E7_ACE97_FC5_E.jpg

 

CD306_EBB-602_F-493_F-867_C-_D5_B19_EAD8258.jpg

 

FAA6_CC7_E-5667-4655-_BCC2-_D7_B51370_CEF3.jpg

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I was actually thinking of these axle mounts on the front of the old chassis...

http://atomicslotcars.com.au/index.php/sc8109c-scaleauto-9mm-axle-holder-with-suspension.html

 

Versus the factory sprung front end on the new chassis.

 

sc8109c_scaleauto_9mm_axle_holder_with_suspension.jpg

Edited by shadow_rusty

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OMG - please no. We don't need any fancy optional parts. The front end issue on the new chassis is solvable by using standard parts.

 

Jan


'The older I get the faster I was.'

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No, my suggestion was to provide the older chassis only an option that will allow similar setup options to that which the new chassis has out of the box.

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