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axman

Mission Statement - Consistency Of Rules

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Hi Espix ... We posted about the same time so I missed your comment.

 

Agree re Plafit.. great racing, rules havn't changed for ages and the new chassis is much better than the old 1300. Just bolt it together and it goes with bonus set of wheels that are perfect for this class.

 

Scaleauto rules arent broken. It's the one class where we've had every top notch driver in the country consistantly turn up for National events because we're all driving the same nail. Although I'm not of favour of changing to the new chassis the old one is no longer available and we have to race what the tracks can sell.

The new chassis will probably make the class even better with all the good carbon fibre bits.

Edited by axman

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I'm more of a model car racer, so the fact that to have any chance in ScaleAuto you need a Viper means, ( to me ) that the homoligation that each car went through didn't work, which is why I like the new MZ rules.

I also like that Cam has revised the SlotWorx bodies, it now means mine should be competitive as I resisted chopping them.

But at the end of the day I only do this for fun, but it's more fun when you win, so I own a McLaren MZ body, and a Viper SA body. ;)

Edited by espsix

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I'm more of a model car racer, so the fact that to have any chance in ScaleAuto you need a Viper means, ( to me ) that the homoligation that each car went through didn't work

 

Brett,

 

I am with you on this one - but in defence of the 'homologation' process I will just say: there is a long story and a short story. The long story will take a personal chat, which I am happy to have when I see you in Melbourne in August. The short story; it went wrong when popular vote forced us to change the Porsche from hard windows to lexan, only because 'it was too hard to remember when all the other bodies could run lexan'. The Viper is simply a flow-on from that (major) change. When the Porsche change happened the Jokers Team deliberately built a Porsche for the next HSC 8 hour to prove the point - and won. When the Viper came out there was major (but futile) resistance (from me) not to 'homologate' it as is, but in such way that it would not become what it has.

 

I don't race MZ, but a proper homologation process is the only way. The different body weights and resultant 'leveling' of the body alternatives have proved time-and-again that it makes a class, a good class. Good on Werner, and Cam for looking after their classes and not allowing the 'too hard' argument to kill it.

 

Cheers,

 

Jan


'The older I get the faster I was.'

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No problems Jan.

 

It's never a good thing being a rule maker, no one is ever happy with what you come up with.

Cam has the same problem with his V8's, where the comonwhore body is the one to have, i even have a falcadore myself, and I always wondered why he didn't just make a generic body where it could be made to look like whatever you wanted, just like the real ones ;)

Hopefully his new bodies even things out abit.

The new ScaleAuto chassis could be the perfect time to even up the body situation for you.

Have fun. :)

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No problems Jan.

 

It's never a good thing being a rule maker, no one is ever happy with what you come up with.

Cam has the same problem with his V8's, where the comonwhore body is the one to have, i even have a falcadore myself, and I always wondered why he didn't just make a generic body where it could be made to look like whatever you wanted, just like the real ones ;)

Hopefully his new bodies even things out abit.

The new ScaleAuto chassis could be the perfect time to even up the body situation for you.

Have fun. :)

 

Brett,

 

Apart from being a member of the initial (Worlds 2010) and Australia (2012 together with Shane) team to setup the Scaleauto ruleset, myself and Garry has only acted as 'keeper-of-the-rules'. We have not made the rules, but allowed the general racer (with an emphasis on guys racing at National level) to forge the rules for Scaleauto.

 

I think you are correct - with the introduction of the new Scaleauto chassis, it is a golden opportunity to sort out a number of issues with the Scaleauto ruleset. I can assure you that I am more than willing to play my (constructive) part in that process and will contribute to the discussion group when that happens.

 

Cheers,

 

Jan

Edited by Springbok Racer

'The older I get the faster I was.'

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I might join you in that discussion when it happens.

No use not saying anything when I can then complaining about the outcome.

Edited by espsix

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......As the discussion has turned towards the 1/24 Scaleauto GT regulations, which are in need to include a new chassis system, I have been approached during the MCN and shortly after to provide some information on how the European and German clubs and event organisers are tackling this matter.

To keep it short :

- The SC-8000 chassis and its parts are out off all major and national events

- The SC-8003 chassis is used only with a few basic selected part options

- All eight 1/24 Scaleauto GT bodies are used in their "out off packet" form without any Lexan parts

- In all major events and race series only one type of body is nominated as proper parity between them is almost impossible

Based on this I have complied a new regulation proposal for the new chassis as well as a few adjustments to our existing 1/24 Scaleauto rules. After some testing with two cars featuring these specs. I found that the performance of both is close enough for running them together either in club racing or even in major events using a separate classification.

I have put copies of these regulation proposals up on our website : https://www.acehobbies.com.au/gallery#nanogallery/nanoGallery/5756258116088291937

Maybe we can use this as a start to discuss the changes which are unavoidable.

Cheers

Werner

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Werner,

 

Good to get your input. I have read through your 2017 proposals (and urge others to do the same) and have noticed a number of variations and attempts to introduce some fundamental changes to the Scaleauto class as we have it. At the moment the only National 2017 Scaleauto ruleset we have is in force and can be found on the National Scaleauto racing section of this forum. Let's see how this discussion develops over the next few months and hopefully we can ensure an amiable solution acceptable to most of our national drivers.

 

Regards,

 

Jan


'The older I get the faster I was.'

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There is a small issue with the ScaleAuto cars ( new chassis ) ......

 

With relation to the front axle holders , it appears that even the ready to run kit ( which is how i purchased mine ) is supplied with a front mount with 2 notches ( indicating that its 9mm or C suffix )

 

This doesnt allow the tyre to touch the ground & pass the 1mm tech block .

 

examplescaleauto.png

Edited by Benno

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There is a small issue with the ScaleAuto cars ( new chassis ) ......

 

With relation to the front axle holders , it appears that even the ready to run kit ( which is how i purchased mine ) is supplied with a front mount with 2 notches ( indicating that its 9mm or C suffix )

 

This doesnt allow the tyre to touch the ground & pass the 1mm tech block .

 

examplescaleauto.png

 

Benno,

 

Perhaps one of the guys racing this chassis somewhere can dial in here and advise you appropriately. This kind of input and advise is exactly what we need to find a way forward regarding the possible inclusion of the new chassis in the ruleset.

 

Cheers,

 

Jan


'The older I get the faster I was.'

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And the front axle is too short and the front sub frame (tee plate) has to be changed to suit particular bodies.

Edited by Camber

Hoo Roo

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......As the discussion has turned towards the 1/24 Scaleauto GT regulations, which are in need to include a new chassis system, I have been approached during the MCN and shortly after to provide some information on how the European and German clubs and event organisers are tackling this problem

- The SC-8003 chassis is used only with a few basic selected part options

- All eight 1/24 Scaleauto GT bodies are used in their "out off packet" form without any Lexan parts

- In all major events and race series only one type of body is nominated as proper parity between them is almost impossible

 

Cheers

Werner

 

Thanks for your input Werner - I actually agree with the idea of all running the same body for major events. Generally there is very little controversy regards chassis rules.. The chassis rules only get messy when we try to get vastly different body shapes to do the same lap times.

Edited by axman

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Hi All, I found a good Scaleauto post by a racer living in the Netherlands recently. He had some interesting points and logic that sometimes has to be spelt out.. Here are a few extracts regards to Scale racing in Europe and racing the older SC8000:

 

(Quote) At the top of the pyramid there are a few healthy (Inter)national Series were the top guys compete.

Number of entries, competition level and complexity of the cars is high, with a myriad op set-up options for Springs, Braids, Gearing,Tyres and Weight distribution.

 

At the base of the pyramid (local club level) it is much harder to have such full focus and dedication amongst all members, let alone the new guys.

 

So here the Scaleauto class serves as the perfect middle ground where pro's and newbies can compete.

With all the goodies the pro's already had in their boxes (braids, gears, spacers & axles etc) the Scaleauto's were never going to remain "box standard" for long. But even with some "out of the box" parts the cars have remained mainly "Scaleauto standard"

 

Due to its simple chassis design the set-up options on a Scaleauto are limited (ride height and body float) and can be easily copied by newcomers. Minimal changes in set-up can still make the difference between a podium or midfield finish.

So even for the experienced guys it remains a challenging environment.thumb.gif

 

One of the strengths of Scaleauto is that they keep a keen eye on what's being developed and used at the top of the pyramid. Hence the Scaleauto lightweight windows and interiors, flexible wing supports, and carbon parts.

 

These are the questions you should ask yourself when you start to make rules on what to or not to allow in your competition.

 

If it just makes them faster, skip it, as if all guys buy it, the net speed gain will be..zero..it will just bring added costs.

If it makes the car handle better, consider it, as it will make it easier for new guys to step in.

Same goes for stuff that makes them easier to build (like the T-nuts) as they will create even more equally build cars. As for stuff that helps to keep the cars in one piece (flexible wing supports) I.M.O. a 5 buck investment to keep a 30 buck body safe is a good one.

 

I like how this guy points why introduce a part if it just steps us all up a notch faster... for what reason..? just to spend extra money?

And his logic for making it as easy as possible for new guys to step in. We've had a really consistent rule set for the past 5 years with Scaleauto. I'm thinking the new chassis with the right rule set can only improve this class for newcomers and us old racers alike.

Edited by axman

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There is a small issue with the ScaleAuto cars ( new chassis ) ......

 

With relation to the front axle holders , it appears that even the ready to run kit ( which is how i purchased mine ) is supplied with a front mount with 2 notches ( indicating that its 9mm or C suffix )

 

This doesnt allow the tyre to touch the ground & pass the 1mm tech block .

 

examplescaleauto.png

And the front axle is too short and the front sub frame (tee plate) has to be changed to suit particular bodies.

 

Hi guys,

 

Please can we get guys running the new Scaleauto chassis to jump in here and give us their understanding of these issues. It will be good if they could give us all the inside knowledge having used and maintained the new chassis.

 

I hear comments like; the front end sit on the deck with the front wheels not touching the track; the chassis wheelbase does not match the body. Is this your experience, if so, how did you sort it out? Did it come out the box like that?

 

Thanks for your constructive advice.

 

Cheers,

 

Jan


'The older I get the faster I was.'

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I've played with a few of these, and found them frustrating...

 

1. The front springs are WAAAYYY too soft out of the box, and need to be replaced as the chassis drags on the track due to 'sag'.

2. The front axle block setup is definitely different as the axle is 0.5 - 1mm higher than the older chassis.

3. Gearing may not be 12/44 out of the box on all cars (had one at 13/36 or something similar).

4. If you lock the front plate up by using 1mm (From Memory) t-nuts, handling is very similar to the old chassis.

 

 

Oh, and on our tracks, I haven't seen them be any quicker, but time will tell...

Edited by shadow_rusty

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I recently read a good Scaleauto post by a racer living in the Netherlands recently. He had some interesting points and logic that sometimes has to be spelt out.. Here are a few extracts regards to Scale racing in Europe and racing the older SC8000:

 

(Quote) At the top of the pyramid there are a few healthy (Inter)national Series were the top guys compete.

Number of entries, competition level and complexity of the cars is high, with a myriad op set-up options for Springs, Braids, Gearing,Tyres and Weight distribution.

 

At the base of the pyramid (local club level) it is much harder to have such full focus and dedication amongst all members, let alone the new guys.

 

So here the Scaleauto class serves as the perfect middle ground where pro's and newbies can compete.

With all the goodies the pro's already had in their boxes (braids, gears, spacers & axles etc) the Scaleauto's were never going to remain "box standard" for long. But even with some "out of the box" parts the cars have remained mainly "Scaleauto standard"

 

Due to its simple chassis design the set-up options on a Scaleauto are limited (ride height and body float) and can be easily copied by newcomers. Minimal changes in set-up can still make the difference between a podium or midfield finish.

So even for the experienced guys it remains a challenging environment.thumb.gif

 

One of the strengths of Scaleauto is that they keep a keen eye on what's being developed and used at the top of the pyramid. Hence the Scaleauto lightweight windows and interiors, flexible wing supports, and carbon parts.

 

These are the questions you should ask yourself when you start to make rules on what to or not to allow in your competition.

 

If it just makes them faster, skip it, as if all guys buy it, the net speed gain will be..zero..it will just bring added costs.

If it makes the car handle better, consider it, as it will make it easier for new guys to step in.

Same goes for stuff that makes them easier to build (like the T-nuts) as they will create even more equally build cars. As for stuff that helps to keep the cars in one piece (flexible wing supports) I.M.O. a 5 buck investment to keep a 30 buck body safe is a good one.

 

I like how this guy points why introduce a part if it just steps us all up a notch faster... for what reason..? just to spend extra money?

And his logic for making it as easy as possible for new guys to step in. We've had a really consistent rule set for the past 5 years with Scaleauto. I'm thinking the new chassis with the right rule set can only improve this class for newcomers and us old racers alike.

 

Good read Kim, and in it is the reason I think the current rules are broken, for what reason we're the light weight Windows and interior added?

Probably, at the beginning to give some form of parity to the different body styles, but then they all got them, so they did nothing to help.

 

 

I haven't had a look at the new chassis yet, but plan on grabbing one to see what issues we will be facing.

 

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Hi Espix, I seem to remember in the early testing days of different body performance Jan tried a mix of different interiors and windows ( lexan/plastic) to achieve parity. It was a massive job and he did'nt get a lot of help. I remember for a while the Porsche was the outstanding body so we ran it with plastic windows and allowed lexan for the less competitive ones. Trouble is, as new bodies became available different benchmarks in performance started to emerge and I think in the end it just got too hard. BTW.. the old 8000 rigid chassis with a rigid plastic interior and rigid plastic windows was an awful noise... Sounded like of a coke can being dragged around the track!

I'm hoping the new carbon fibre accessorised chassis sounds better with stock body!

Edited by axman

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If it makes the car handle better, consider it, as it will make it easier for new guys to step in.

 

I think lexan interior may fall into this category as well.


Hoo Roo

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If it makes the car handle better, consider it, as it will make it easier for new guys to step in.

 

I think lexan interior may fall into this category as well.

 

 

Your right, it may make it handle better, but will it make it easier for the new guys?

Most new guys can't see why they need to buy a interior and Windows for a car that already has them, and struggle with trimming and fitting the lexan windows, I know I stuffed up my first set.

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Just a reminder.

 

The lexan pieces are optional. If you guys want to race the class at club level, you are welcome to stay with the hard plastic. However, as we can expect - at National level, competitors will use every possible way to improve their car performance. So please see the National ruleset in this context.

 

Cheers,

 

Jan


'The older I get the faster I was.'

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Just a reminder.

 

The lexan pieces are optional. If you guys want to race the class at club level, you are welcome to stay with the hard plastic. However, as we can expect - at National level, competitors will use every possible way to improve their car performance. So please see the National ruleset in this context.

 

Cheers,

 

Jan

 

Same with the front wheels . The smaller diameter wheels are optional ,but if you want to use them you will need to change the axle supports as well .

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I do realise that Jan.

 

And in our club, that's how we do it, with MJK's on the original rims at 10 volts.

And all the different body styles are very even in lap times no matter the track, and no one races a Viper, but I think that's because they're all saving them for foam tyres at 12 volts.

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And in our club, that's how we do it, with MJK's on the original rims at 10 volts.

And all the different body styles are very even in lap times no matter the track, and no one races a Viper, but I think that's because they're all saving them for foam tyres at 12 volts.

 

See, Espix you already have a working formula for your club... and as Jan said whatever works for you guys at club is great. If running MJK's on 10 volts means all the body styles work your on a winner to keep members happy and coming back.

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