Garry J Posted August 29, 2016 Report Share Posted August 29, 2016 I've had a submission to change the rear tyre rule for the Scale Auto GT class. The reason for the request is the price of Scale Auto tyres is becoming prohibitive, nearing $30 a pair. Here is a rough draft of the proposed rear tyres allowed - ********************************************************************************** Scale Auto RTR Pro Comp 3 - as per current rules Plafit RTR- Part Number 812112-RTR Plafit or Scale Auto rims (as per above), re rubbered with Plafit rubber Rims may not be modified in any way ********************************************************************************** FYI - If you already have good rims then re rubbering 2 sets of tyres will save you nearly $47 on the cost of 2 sets of Scale Auto RTRs. Any comments? . Quote Cheers, Garry J Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadow_rusty Posted August 29, 2016 Report Share Posted August 29, 2016 Is that Plafit part the same rim as the 'stock' tyres supplied with Cam's Slotworx cars? If so, then the difference in performance here in negligable. On a 'dirty' / 'un-rubbered' track, the SA tyres work slightly better. On a 'clean' / 'rubbered in' track, the Plafit tyres work better. The biggest concern that I can see is that it will be very hard to 'police' the Plafit tyres as they are unmarked. Quote Stolen from SlotsNZ Team ABC Team Leader (Ambitious, But Crap) Home Track Threads - Shadow's Semi-Permanent Layout & Another Rug Racer & Proud of It & Gymkhana Test Track Car Collection Thread - My Car Collection Charts / Diagrams - MJK Tyre Selector / Slot.it 4wd Gearing / PoliCar Rollout / Rollout Chart Generator / SCX 4wd Rollout / Track Wiring with Brake on Track Call Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camber Posted August 29, 2016 Report Share Posted August 29, 2016 Sounds sensible to me. The SA wheels can be difficult to source as well. Quote Hoo Roo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony.A Posted August 29, 2016 Report Share Posted August 29, 2016 Seems to me to be a no brainer as there doesn't seem to be much difference in performance between the tyres and as everyone would have Plafit rims it would seem logical to allow either re rubbering rims or the use of Plafit RTR rims and tyres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imugford Posted August 29, 2016 Report Share Posted August 29, 2016 and being unmarked leaves the door open for overseas donuts (not plafit/sigma) to be used aswell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel B Posted August 29, 2016 Report Share Posted August 29, 2016 I agree with the rule change Garry. Anybody who deems it necessary to cheat by using different rubber other than what is listed, would probably go back wards as these cars are top heavy and really do not need anymore grip. And tyre wear is never an issue either. Noel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry J Posted August 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2016 I stand to be corrected on this but I'm pretty sure both manufacturers use the Black Magic rubber. If they don't then I can't pick the difference. Any minor differences in appearance or performance can probably be attributed to age or different rubber batches. I have noted small visible differences in the rubber cell size from batch to batch. Specifying Plafit rubber only, for retreads, allows the scrutineer to disqualify any tyres that are obviously different. I agree with Noel's observation on grip level too; at least on the Hornsby track which is always well prepared. At this years race our Team Phoenix car had as near to perfect grip as I could imagine, definitely didn't need any more. The only down side I can see is that better funded teams will have more tuning choices, tyre wise. Quote Cheers, Garry J Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyslots 1950 Posted August 29, 2016 Report Share Posted August 29, 2016 Werner even allows Scaleauto rears to be run in APC events so I'm sure they would be even in performance.I've seen the Scaleauto wheels break & I have 3 sets of their fronts of which 2 are bent,I also built a car for Tupperware Greg & the 3 mmm hole was oversize so I had to use double screws to true them up.Plafit quality & precission is a much better product. May I suggest the front wheels also need review,we harden & seal them so there is no performance improvement other than the Plafit is a much better quality & not prone to bend.Also tyre lettering comes off too easy turning a perfectly good set of tyres into club car wheels. The Armchair guys run the Scaleauto pro comp 1 super soft with the white lettering & the texture is much finer so the will stand out to a trained scrutineers eyes even without the tyre lettering. Cheers Jimmy Quote To finsh first,first you gotta finish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagey Posted August 29, 2016 Report Share Posted August 29, 2016 I'm happy to run the plafit tyres easier and cheaper to get in our end of the world . I believe the brains trust in the previous comments shows that the tyres are more than equal in performance . Let's just make sure we get some races up to enjoy the enduros again . Cheers Pagey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springbok Racer Posted August 29, 2016 Report Share Posted August 29, 2016 Hi guys, If you will allow me to be of a different opinion: - The price issue seems a bit exaggerated - I started selling these for $18 per set in 2012, they went up - due to the drop in our dollar exchange rate - to $22 and is currently at $21. If anyone has a source problem I have no idea why. - The orange procomp 3 lettering is an excellent indicator of tyres/rubber being used and does not require an expert eye to decide if they are legal. Should this not be the case, then the only fair way will be hand out wheels. Please remember we are talking national rules - not club racing. - This is a Scale Auto class, not a Plafit class. I appeal to everyone not to make these changes, which will simply start the usual slippery slope as with all the other failed classes before. Is this class broken? If not, why then try to fix it? Cheers, Jan Quote 'The older I get the faster I was.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jazzbell Posted August 29, 2016 Report Share Posted August 29, 2016 If u buy local u will get bent over when it comes to the Scaleauto, Last box of 20 delivered I paid $320. $16 dollars it worked out. I've never had an issue buying them. True as Gary said the shelf life before and after on the age of the foam does make a difference. As for the foam,comes from the same place for both firms. Shane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooksy Posted August 29, 2016 Report Share Posted August 29, 2016 The Armchair guys run the Scaleauto pro comp 1 super soft with the white lettering & the texture is much finer so the will stand out to a trained scrutineers eyes even without the tyre lettering. Cheers Jimmy Whats wrong with that Jim??? All we want to do is go faster! Come up and race, we wan't you to beat John. Quote Brooksy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooksy Posted August 29, 2016 Report Share Posted August 29, 2016 (edited) By the way Hornsby are now charging $32 a set for Scaleauto Pro Comp 3 RTR Tyres. Too much in my opinion. Edited August 29, 2016 by Brooksy Quote Brooksy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Racer Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 Garry All for it, a good change put fowrard to save a $. As for the rules (Scale Auto SC-26 Endurance or the NSR 25000 Evo.). You have all ready gone away from Scaleauto. In Jan's comment (This is a Scale Auto class, not a Plafit class.). Good to see open discussion's on changes. Vito. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sellout Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 I think keeping the scale auto wheels but allow donuts to keep costs down would be a sensible idea, especially as the only way to adjust for gearing is tyre size. Plafit wheels are a better quality item but as Jan sais they pollute the class. Scale auto wheels bend when they take a hit and I think that adds a good element to the national endurance races. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espsix Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 +1 for keeping the SA rims, but allow them to be rerubbered with Plafit donuts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axman Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 (edited) I'm all for keeping racers racing and keeping tracks open. From what Brooksy say's if a local racer has to pay upwards of $30 for tyres, Scaleauto racing will suffer at that raceway. We're lucky in Queensland because Jan has always looked after us pricewise on Scaleauto parts. Unfortunately it puts other racers that want to support their local raceway in a predicament if they have to buy elsewhere to save $$ and be competitive. Nothing pisses of a trackowner more than knowing his racers are buying else where... he needs counter sales to find the rent so they have a track to race on. So.. my answer is let em buy the Plafit equalivent and keep the track owner and racer happy. I cant see any difference between the two compounds performance wise.. and it gives us a back up tyre if one brand is out of supply. Edited August 30, 2016 by axman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springbok Racer Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 Hi guys, Please can we separate club or local club requirements from national event rules. Jan Quote 'The older I get the faster I was.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadow_rusty Posted August 31, 2016 Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 That's not always possible to do Jan. We run our ScaleAuto and our SlotWorx classes to the national rules. And whilst there are people who will 'break' the rules, they typically are novices, or really hard up racers. Also, the fast guys love the challenge of beating the 'cheats' with a legal car. And yes, the current tyres here vary from $25 to $30 a pair, IF they are even available. 1 Quote Stolen from SlotsNZ Team ABC Team Leader (Ambitious, But Crap) Home Track Threads - Shadow's Semi-Permanent Layout & Another Rug Racer & Proud of It & Gymkhana Test Track Car Collection Thread - My Car Collection Charts / Diagrams - MJK Tyre Selector / Slot.it 4wd Gearing / PoliCar Rollout / Rollout Chart Generator / SCX 4wd Rollout / Track Wiring with Brake on Track Call Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jazzbell Posted August 31, 2016 Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 My opinion I'm not for the change of wheels AT NATIONAL LEVEL. End of the day the the 2 major races for scaleauto are Hornsby and the MCN also Adelaide. Some of these events were even handouts I supplied. The cost of the SCALEAUTO in Aus in determined by a toy importer not a slot shop so that's why there so expensive. The mark up he puts on his price to our slot shops is why there expensive. I'm all for supporting local,but why would a local shop buy from our importer when they also can buy overseas for half the price. I'm not even a shop and buying a box they give me 10% off. As for local racing at club or back yard personally I don't give a s#!t what rules they run. In the end it is there choice and if you race there U know what it is and how it is. Can see it now tyres today motors tomorrow. Shane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sticks Posted August 31, 2016 Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 Can see it now tyres today motors tomorrow. Shane Tomorrow is already here There are two motors at national level Just to add my 2 cents worth I would like to be able to use plafit wheels and sponge in SA class for two reasons 1 i think the SA wheels are much lower in strength than the plafit the SA wheels bend and buckle a lot more than the plafit wheels I seam to to have more bent SA wheels than plafit wheels even though I have about 10 times more cars with plafit wheels than SA wheels 2 for me it a lot essayer to get your hands on the plafit wheels than SA, Yes you can get them from Jan with a phone call and wait for the post. not as essay as getting plafits on Thursday night at racing Rodney 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camber Posted August 31, 2016 Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 From personal experience I have bent lots of Scaleauto wheels and very few Plafit wheels. The bent rear wheel we had Hornsby last year put out us out of contention for the win as it wasn't obvious and took a full heat to work out what was wrong. Poor Noel was pulling his hair out driving that heat The race would have been very close otherwise. Quote Hoo Roo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry J Posted August 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 (edited) Great to see everyone offering their opinion without it getting personal. Still a ways to go on this before any decision is made. Just to stir the pot a little, here is a list of parts that need to be, or should be, replaced to build a COMPETITIVE ENDURO CAR from a READY TO RUN Scale Auto GT. All allowed under the current rules. ************************************************************************************************************************************************* Wheels and tyres - all 4 wheels and tyres that come with the RTR are not suitable for racing, replace front and rear. Axles - I've seen some good axles in some of the later RTR cars but not many, replace both. Bearings - The originals are inferior quality, replace all 4. Screws - they are rubbish soft metal with big heads that hang below the chassis plate, replace them all. Interior - replace with light weight version. ************************************************************************************************************************************************* Now here is a list of the other parts which can be, but are not necessarily, replaced under the current rules ************************************************************************************************************************************************* Guide, guide nut, guide washers, braids, lead wire and clips. Any nuts and washers (screws have been replaced above). Rear wing mounts. Wheel inserts. Motor - We currently have a choice of the original Scale Auto, the NSR and it has been suggested to allow the SRP 25 long can. ************************************************************************************************************************************************* This is what's left of the original "READY TO RUN" car if all currently allowed changes are made. ************************************************************************************************************************************************* Body shell (complete), roll cage and rear wing. Guide tongue, T plate, Main chassis plate, H plate. Body mount plates and intermediate plates (not sure what they're called) Bearing holders Motor brackets ************************************************************************************************************************************************* Make of this what you will. . Edited August 31, 2016 by Garry J Quote Cheers, Garry J Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagey Posted August 31, 2016 Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 Great to see so many opinions on a tyre reg , looks like we will have a lot of past champs ready to run at Hornsby this year . I'm happy to run what ever as long as we are all on the same rubber . Not much original gear in that list Garry , long as we're racing and going to the pub after I'm happy . Cheers Pagey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springbok Racer Posted August 31, 2016 Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 Garry, I reiterate, this is not a Plafit class, this is a Scaleauto class. With the exception of the motor choice (which has it's history due to the original SC-25 not being available when Shane organised the 2012 MCN and another 25K motor had to be found for that event) all the other 'choice' parts are still exactly as per the original World Champs rules. Please don't allow this class to get messed up. Jan Quote 'The older I get the faster I was.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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