2016 Tasman Cup Round 2 Gotham Park

[difinity]

Tony all the cars receive the same pre race treatment, braids are cleaned, tyres are cleaned only wth water and detergent, and the rear axle oiled.

Sanding tyres is not usually done as some entrants have gone to lengths to get a very fine tyre finish.

...

 

Thanks Phil. Unfortunately, IIHE, the Paul Gage develop a sheen and have very little grip unless sanded.

 

I'd be VERY happy (prefer it actually) if the tyres were run momentarily on a fine grit emery before it races.

Might have to find a different tyre supplier for future Tasman's if this can't be done. 😊

[kalbfellp]

Michael the secret to a great Proxy car is to build a quick good handling car that is easy to drive and requires very little learning time.

Simple, but bloody hard to do.

I simply put a small piece of blue tack to hold it during the lead wire repair and it is much better.

Tony none of the other PG turned cars had that problem, Stu car finished second with PG Tyre's that were only cleaned.

I will get a ruling from Stubbo.

 

[Stubbo]

Re the tyres.

 

 

The rules are quite clear.

 

"Each race will be conducted according to procedures chosen by the individual track host. Each car is to be raced in a fair and equal manner, and subject to the same track conditions. Each driver should drive all cars for the same time on the same lane. Lane and driver rotations to be determined by track host."

 

So each host is to prepare and service each of the cars in the same way.

 

I only clean the tyres with a damp cloth and water. Phil uses a little detergent in the water. The idea is to keep the tyres clean, not rejuvenate them.

 

"Sanding tyres is not usually done as some entrants have gone to lengths to get a very fine tyre finish".

 

I agree with this. I put a lot of effort into the tyres to try to get them as good as I can before the first race. I would not want someone else trying to sand or buff my tyres. They are bound to be less effective later in the series as they go off but that is the nature of the event and in all probability it will be the same for most cars.

 

 

 

 

Funnily enough I have been able to work out a nice deal with Paul Gage and thanks to his generosity there will be some of his tyres included with each of the cars when they are returned at the end of the series.

[Peter Gunn]

Interesting shake down , i seem to be able to put out smooth cars but gearing seems ok on some tracks but not on others which as it can be , i think the Lotus is 9x25 , don't use ff motors at all here so the gearing is hit and miss, just go by what i use in other proxies, , tyres again first crack at this proxy so used what i had MJK Vintage which go well here but obviously not that well there by some of the comments , have got PG's on the other Lotus and found no differance but have taken note if i do it next year.

I think it is always better to send a car to a proxy with new braids and new tyres at least , i usually put new guide in as well and change pinion and contrate to try to get the best all round performance out of the car with other drivers in mind.

[Terry]

Good news!

 

Pauls' a great guy to deal with and his tyres are well used by our little group.

 

Thanks Alan, big thanks to Paul

[chenglaw]

"Car 33 Rough not smooth possible loose tyre. Slow down the straight."

Hmm, looks like my car preparation and setup this year leaves a lot to be desired. Hopefully, my short runs and experiences on Dave's track in Hobart and Alan's in Melbourne will give me some insight on what I need to do for next year!

Phil, please let me know what I owe you for the gear which you replaced in my Green Rattler.

[kalbfellp]

All OK Lim, used a sligjty used grear.

PG tyres work well here almost as good as Tassie Tyres. Pendle work well down here, and last year my Elfin had too much grip in Adelaide.

Keith 9/23 or 9/24 is usually the right gearing.

[chenglaw]

Many thanks Phil. May need to get back to you for some more Tassie tyres for next year.

[difinity]

Thanks again for the advice on the tyres. Telly glad for some PG's to come back too - I am using PG's pretty much all the time now.

Most of our track surfaces are with Feradore revolted with a semigloss, or all rolled on semigloss grey. We tend to sand tyres each heat, using a very fine grit.

If the Taaman track owners prefer wiping wet or dry or sticky tape that's all good for me. I've not run them on full gloss if that is what you gave though...

[kalbfellp]

The tracks down here are not full gloss.

Gotham Park is semigloss enamel with good rubber build up.

Shelmore is Ferrodore with 3 coats of semi gloss clear over the top.

[Terry]

Although we are getting "off thread" a little, its interesting reading the comments regarding tyres and the treating of tyres.

 

One of the pics from this round shows SLO1's Brabham and I was interested that the tyres seem to be almost untouched and lacking of any real truing.

 

I think we often put too much work into the truing and constant refining of the tyres, for me, I did have that sweet spot with my BT11, but in the pursuit of that little bit extra I continued, what I thought to be, more developing, and lost the tyre, it went right off to the point where I had to nominate my #10 BT4 just because I had lost traction on the BT11.

 

It has forced me to rethink my practice of continually sanding the tyres, now its just a wipe and very occasionally a light sand on 1500 wet and dry. I wipe my cars on a sponge bed soaked in water and dish washing liquid.

 

My track has been resurfaced, gone is the semi gloss enamel, it was getting powdery and after 6 or so years it was time, and now I have a jet dry paving paint surface, smoother than the original and times are proving to be just about the same as the old surface.

Edited May 23, 2016 by terry

[Slo]

Which XPG's are you using Tony? The V (vintage)range? Your tyres look to have a very narrow contact patch.

 

Terry, I think its appropriate to bring attention to things relevant where relevant is

I got to admit I was a bit alarmed at the idea of rejuvenating car tyres. My car had way too much grip first initial testing and tipped over very easily and was very difficult to drive. I had to add more weight than I intended.and after a few laps and extra weight the tyres seemed to tone down a bit and found a happy medium. I certainly would be reluctant to have them sanded again because of this. It could change the handling of the car completely!

I find that tyres pretty much stay pretty consistent throughout 6,7 or 8 rounds. If they're not sorted when I sent the car, they're still not sorted when the car returns.

And likewise , if they are working well when sent, they come home still working well.

 

Terry is right, I barely trued the tyres and was worried that if I kept going with it I ruin the grip level like I have done so often in the past. Its not like I didnt spend much time at it, I just used 1500-2500 grit with lots of water and that is very slow. I know where ya coming from there Terry. Doing a build is a collective of ideas, yard sticks of known quantities and others are fumbling juggles of guess work. Bloody tyres......and motors and tracks! While the tuning is done with delicate attention , the tyres are always the final touch, for me anyway, so you cant be sure what kind of a beastie you've created until the end. Tyres are key IMO.

 

The tyres on mine are nearly a mm over diameter than I usually strive for because I was worried I was going to stuff the tyres, so my ground clearance is well over 2mm therefore COG is much higher. Its a difficult balance trying to find that optimum grip level for the car to be an easy driver at pace, For me Tyre grip level determines where I place weight, what guide I use, what gearing I go for, how much body body float, where I orientate the motor (further forward or closer to the crown) thats why I stay with the Gage tyres , I have some idea what to expect from them. As such, I set the motor end bell mount between 10- 12.7 mm forward of rear axle center and the guide lead length is forward of the front axle center by 11-12 mm given a 72-73mm wheelbase, and I know they will push the boofier slot it CH10 which has more drag than an NSR guide but, IMO, holds slot better. All this means is I dont have to go back to first base with every build I do. Some of what I call the known quantities.

 

Each round is a testing ground with variables and constants.Its exactly the same approach I took when my Subaru finished 30 last in the Ozrally a couple years ago whether, 6,th 10th 3rd or last there is always the information to move forward....Trying to make sense of it is in the finite detail. The pictures , the feedback the lap times , the final results all reveal clues. ie. For me personally, what do I take away from this round....

Lap times indicate my car was not overly fast but it must have been consistent because it came home second. Feed back "very good car" might no seem much ,but, from that I'm assuming that some of the tuning it to be an easier drive has worked. Looking at feathering on my tyres in the pic, tends me to thinking that maybe I should have braced the chassis rails more. I'm pretty excited at this stage because I can see areas where the car can be improved, also knowing another track may reveal things no so promising. Finding the reason for it is the challenge.

Just sharing my 2 bobs worth

I'll shut up for now.

[Peter Gunn]

Wow ummm and here was me thinking that grip was a thing not consistently the same on different track s, surfaces, and atmosphere.

[Slo]

Grip does vary from track to track , as Phil pointed out, some tracks suit particular tyres better than others. I find that the XPG's are a good all rounder for each of the tracks. It will be interesting to see how they fare against the Tassie, Dart and Pendles at Shelmore.

[difinity]

Slo1quick - I'm not sure - got them from SCC Canada with the hubs. They were at least 1.5mm too wide for the rules, so I tried then down and tried to get some bulge in the sidewall. Diameter is a little over min too, but that probably increases the propensity to slip.is all a learning curve for me - I've not built such a fine model for competition previously (most of my scratchbuilds were 1/24 sponge running hot Gp.12/20/open class motors, and that was a long time ago).

As I get to grips with these great little models, I'm sure they'll become more consistent and easier to drive.

 

I am interested in the tyre truing/sanding/cleaning approaches though. My only experience with PH tyres to date is that all those in my club who use them lightly sand each race to increase grip... Will he good to learn other ways...

 

T

 

[rosco01]

Thank you Slo for posting such valuable information. I have copied it verbatim to my build notes folder and will reference it often during future builds.

You can never post enough of this very developed and factual info - for mine, do not ever consider that what you post goes without my very much appreciation.

 

frats,

Rosco