difinity Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) Started building my T53 today. John Warren Resin - beautiful finish, not too much material to remove. Took the wheel arches, driver cockpit, trimmed the base and exhaust gap. Using Camber's brackets, soldered rails on f & r, and started to fashion the upper A arms. Bearings are outboard, fixed to the A arms, but not able to float as yet. (That might come - I'll see. Here are some pics, but not in order thanks the the bucket... Rear end - extra wire to come off once done: More to come.. The set up plan: Edited December 7, 2015 by difinity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosco01 Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) Excellent work, Difinity.. Love your concept of the outboard bushes, it is one I was considering for my first build but jumped ship on advice from members of the series plus the difficulty in incorporating it into my independent hub front axle assembly - concept is still under review, and I'd like to built it one day. I note you are using the jeweler's ceramic tile as your jig. Finding close fitting pins for those holes can be a bit daunting - and, the tile holes will break easily if forced. Your motor appears to sit a lot higher at the front than my SRP FF050. I did have considerable issue with retaining enough driver body, before you finalise a body/chassis ride height - you may consider alternatives both in motor or body height. I do know some members actually employ a decided bend in the horizontal plane of the chassis rails - to effect a "nose down" attitude of the motor. When I soldered my rear bracket to the rails, I fitted the motor such that it sat flat on the tile - this was as low as I could get it for fitting the driver's body. The "dagger" bent chassis rail idea was forwarded to me from one of the great modelers in this forum - I did not employ it, but may consider it in a later build. I love your soldering skills - very keen to keep watch in yet another T-53 build... please keep this thread up to date - I very much look forward to watching your progress. frats, Rosco Edited December 7, 2015 by rosco01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
difinity Posted December 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Thanks. I'm not sure why people would counsel against outboard bearings. (Can fit inboard as well if needed). Seems to me that if the lower arms on the chassis are constructed appropriately - strong enough with the stresses in the right area - it should prevent damage or breakage. The motor is a std BWA 14k. Will sit between the rails, soldered in place. I haven't set body height etc yet either - need to get all the parts in first. Guide will be a 1/32 Scaleauto, fitted like a Parma guide - threaded but on outside with only a short shaft, washered with a couple of guide washers. Wheels are CD Designs 15*7 front/rear, on their way from Slot Car Corner yesterday. I'll need to true the fronts down to the 6mm width though. Did you true a 'sidewall' into yours? Might still float rear end - not certain that there is enough room yet though. Front will be an axle tube with A arms soldered on... As for the driver, IIRC, Stilwell sat high anyway. My biggest concern is that it will be too slow - currently thinking about a 2.6/2.7:1 ratio for this motor. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
difinity Posted December 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Rosco, The set up plate is a heater element. 1mm piano wire works really well. T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
difinity Posted December 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 Re did the rear end - has a little float which will hopefully stay... Did one side tonight - other must wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosco01 Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 Hi Tony, I note you have changed the orientation of your central upper wishbones - this will now give the needed clearance for the crown. As for truing a sidewall into my tyres - no, the Paul Gage ones came with really good sidewalls on the outside. The inside had pretty much the standard molding ridge lip which I left in place. I did put some generous radii into the outer sidewall corners to allow for a little drift if pushed instead of a flip - but it was only a couple of light runs to remove any edge. I don't know how the smaller motor will go with this model - there may be some advantage if it's lighter and the power/weight ratio is better, but I don't believe there is any better option that torque - and in fitting a larger ratio may be appropriate. Of course, I would then expect in line speed to be compromised - it will be very interesting to learn of your findings during testing. I am unaware of what "float" you may be creating in the rear end - if it is axle transverse float, I cannot understand how you have effected it and maintained strict communication between the pinion and crown mesh. frats, Rosco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wobble Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 difinity, I like the look of your rear end set up. I also like it when people use a bit of God-given 'imagination' and try a concept that they've worked out in their head, even if it proves to have no real advantage or even fail. At least you're giving it a go, and I hope it goes good for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
difinity Posted December 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 Thanks guys. The idea is to get about a half degree of float transversely across the pinion axis. Ie: the axle should swing marginally around that axis in corners. Won't work quite like if like, as a fully floating rear end, without suitable bushing, will just rattle around and go nowhere. I was going to bush in a tube at the bottom, but that didn't work. The lower arm is fixed, but is only 0.9 wire so gas a bit of give. The upper arm is 0.15 wire and will flex a little more. The original upper arm was to be cut at the bracket, but I thought I'd try this first. In theory, it should give almost as much 'give' as an international 1/32 at the rear, while keeping a rigid front axle. If all it does is bounce up and down on track its an easy fix to just solder the upper arm up at the rear... I note that if I just made a two piece chassis and floated the shell on the outside piece I'd get the running result in looking for, but it wouldn't be as cool. 😊 Ideally, this gives me a unique style and meets the condition of suspension as well... Next is a set of 'working' shocks to fit... Might take as long as Rosco's car by the time in done, but it is a bit of fun... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
difinity Posted December 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 As for the motor, the BWA is what I've got. Will fit either a 10 or 11 t pinion to give a ratio somewhere around 2.4-2.7:1. These little things have plenty of torque for that - we run them in the Scaley Classic F1 class, with mine at 2.6:1 and are competitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
difinity Posted December 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 Little bit more work today. Fitted the other side lower rear arm and, as expected, no flex. Never mind. Took the chance to clean up the rear, braced the outboard bearings and added (part) of the top chassis brace on the model. Also added one top front a-arm but really want the wheels to arrive to get the right fitting. Pics follow: Bearings in the front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosco01 Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 (edited) Ok - so we've also managed to put the torsion bar into the rear suspension, Tony - it will make a lot of difference to overall looks. Add some form of coil spring dampers and your rear suspension is more than exemplorary for purpose. Front was a bit of an issue for my builds - simply put, trying to get the dampers and springs central between the wishbones was difficult.... the axle has to run in there. I did consider running stub axles on the front for quite some time - but dropped the concept when I realised how troublesome they could become in series running. One decent bump and it would more than likely have offset the angle of either/both stub axles. As Bram states, your left field approach to this build is what I understand F1 to be - and every now and then, someone comes up with something that has the edge on the rest of the competition.. You are more than likely to produce some of this natural talent in your build - I'm really keen to watch as you add more and more to it. I will attempt to add weight to the outer end of both axles in an upcoming build. I firmly believe there is distinct advantage to be gained in getting weight out against the hubs. Probably even better if a little more can be added to the outer ends of the lower wishbones. Again, not having a layout to do any testing on - results in my beliefs being speculative only. Body float will find itself - simply fit one mount post between the windscreen and front bracket - almost exactly where Cam has drilled the hole. With your rear suspension employing those torsion bars - the flat axle opening of the body will freely slide across/up/down on the bars. I fitted some lever arms to the insides of my torsion bars for visual effect - but, it also unwittingly limited the amount of lateral body float on the insides of the bars themselves. You can build internally within the body if you need more rear lift - it is unseen but gives the appearance of the body being elevated from the suspension. Unless you enjoy days of painstaking concentration - dampers and springs soldered to a simple centre rod probably afford as much visual effect as making up ends, sleeves and stops - yes, they are very pleasing once done - but the almost precise discipline of setting them up and soldering does not attract sufficient advantage. And yes, each piece was soldered separately - at the risk of losing previous joints. When I build #2, I will make up a jig for these - a simple design into which components can be assembled before a final one session soldering. If I were to look for "float" - in the rear axle - I would probably truddle down the path of getting flex into the chassis. the piano wire I used was of the higher end of size - a smaller size would probably afford sufficient flex to be of an advantage. Piano wire has a fantastic memory - no matter what size is used. Ok - back to work for you, Tony - you don't have time to read my dribble in your thread.. frats, Rosco Edited December 16, 2015 by rosco01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
difinity Posted December 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 A few things to do - 1. Cut off and re-do rear suspension 4mm narrower. Will reuse/reset... 2. Shocks. I picked up a bag of offcuts yesterday so can now go ahead. Won't be working - I've got better things to do after all. 1mm shaft inside a 1.5mm with a hand wound spring should give about the right scale, and make fitting easier. I haven't seen the original but most pics show the shock mounted just behind the axle so I think I'll do that. 3. Fit guide tube and guide. 4. Fit wired etc. 5. Take chassis out for a test run. 6. Start body paint prep... The rest should happen after Christmas when I get some time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesx Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 Hi Difinity. Just a suggestion as you have some fairly meaty bearings at rear - just cut them down 2mm on each side. Looks like you should be able to do this without affecting suspension arms from photos. For my shocks I have just taken a bit of brass rod, stripped light copper wire and wound my own springs. Another option perhaps. You can make them any length to suit. I leave a straight section on each side to aid soldering in place this cut off any surplus. Will continue to watch your build with interest. Like idea of mounting bearings outboard as long as you can make strong enough. Regards Chas Le Breton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
difinity Posted December 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 Hi Charles. Cut the rear out today. Will rebuild at the correct scale when I can. Shocks are 1mm inner/2mm outer with hand wound springs. These are quite simple to make and will fit well. Am having fun (mostly) at least... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
difinity Posted January 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 More work today (finally). - copied into Tasman build thread too for those who look there - Rebuilt rear end to fit width rule - not quite as tidy but at least 'right' and smooth running. Added shocks - 2 tube sizes hand wrapped with copper Spring. Need to extend guide tube down - car sits higher than I thought with the tyres on - esp at front. Need a-arms for front end. Got a run tonight - chassis only. No hop, but rears need truing, guide not far enough into slot - will fix. (How deep should the guide be? Are there any plastic tracks in this proxy?) Then I can start on fixtures and paint. Might have it ready on time after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 No plastic tracks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
difinity Posted January 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Thanks Terry. Should be ok with the Scaleauto 1/32 guide then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
difinity Posted February 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 Update: (Also in the Proxy thread) Narrowed front axle to correct length. Fitted a-arms and shocks to front (not entirely perfect - had to sit them in front of the lower a-arm to leave room for the axle. Trued front tyres down. Fitted exhaust. Paint and interior are next Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manimmal Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 (edited) Mine has been running the same guide as yours for two seasons. I profiled mine for home use, but it won't be a problem for you if you have an issue I'm sure the host will sort it for you. might I also suggest hunting down some hard front tyres? Good build by the by, thanks for taking the time to share your progress. Chris Edited February 5, 2016 by manimmal Quote My mum says I'm an excellent driver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalbfellp Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 Chris 60 shore hard enough? To suit what wheels? Just cast about 20 pr of various sizes, inside will need some sanding. Quote Phil https://www.hobartminiaturecarclub.com/ Email Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
difinity Posted February 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 Thanks guys. I'll need to finish profiling the fronts, and get paint under way. Took it for a test drive at our Club track builders track after racing tonight (painted ferradore surface - pretty grippy). Car is smooth and reasonably quick - would hold a lap in the middle of our Slot.it 14k Gp.C class - about 6.5-7 sec, running a BWANC1 slimline. Not bad for such a small, narrow car Looking forward to getting it under way. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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