Jump to content
grt

Diy Decals - Help Needed

Recommended Posts

Hi All,

 

Just wondering if some of you who make your own decals have had this problem I have just started having.

 

I have been printing my own decals for many years, originally on my home inkjet printer, then eventually moving to laser paper using the laser printers at work, because it was much less hassle with the whole sealing of the decals before using issue.

 

I have been successfully using this method for many years, using laser decal paper (both clear & white) from a local ebay supplier.

 

However, about 6 months ago I think it was, I started having hassles with dark colours, getting a bit of leaching of colour around the edges, which just shouldn't happen with laser paper. What I eventually discovered happening was that the ink was flaking from the edges of the cut, as I was cutting out each decal. It is really only noticeable on the darker colours, particularly black and dark blue. I am pretty sure this started happening during the middle or towards the end of a batch of 10 sheets I'd bought the year before.

 

I thought perhaps the paper was going off, so order a new batch, but had exactly the same issue. We had two different types of laser printers at work by this stage, one being slightly better quality than the other, so I thought I'd test out both, and still got the same issue on both printers.

 

I contacted the decal paper supplier, and they say they haven't changed brand or supplier of their paper. They did say the paper is extremely sensitive to cold and moisture in the air, and that I needed to dry the sheets out thoroughly using a hair dryer, or even an oven, which s a bit impractical when I am at work. Besides, its an air-conditioned office, so that shouldn't really be an issue. I did try leaving the sheets sitting on top of my laptop the entire day, which warmed them up quite a bit, and that didn't work either. I even tried another ebay supplier, but got the same results (although I think they all get their paper from the same guy anyway, because one ebay company I spoke to said they supplied the decal paper to other place I was buying it from anyway).

 

So I was wondering if anyone else has ever encountered this issue before. The suppliers are saying it must be the printers, but I have used the same printer I used last year, plus the newer better quality printer, with no success.

 

I did try sealing the decals first with clear acrylic before cutting them, which worked, but that just takes me back to the issues which drove me away from inkjet decals in the first place. The issue there is that eventually the clear coating becomes brittle, and sort of shatters along the edge of the cut, allowing the ink to bleed off. That means you have to cut out an entire sheet of decals as soon as you've sealed it, rather than simply cutting out each decal as you use it, which is what I tend to do. When there are hundreds of tiny decals on a sheet, it becomes a very time consuming process.

 

Would be very interested to know if anyone else has encountered this issue and found a cause/resolution. Can't really justify buying a colour laser printer for home, assuming that will solve the issue anyway, but am starting to think about it.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


Graeme

~~~~~~

 

(Life is like a sewer....................What you get out of it depends on what you put into it!)

 

My Website

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Graeme,

 

I've never had any luck with laser decal paper so I'm sorry I don't have a solution for you but can you tell me what supplier you're using as I'd like to try their product if you've had some success with it.


Cheers,

 

Garry J

 

Slotworx_Logo_Small.jpg

 

Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While the seller may not have changed his supplier it is possible that the supplier has changed their source or even that the manufacturer has changed some minor part of the process.

 

I use an inkjet to do my decals so I've not experienced the flaking that you mention. My stock is getting on toward 4 years old now, with no apparent sign of deterioration.

 

It is true that the sheets are very susceptible to changes in temperature and particularly humidity. It's also possible for it to be light/uv affected. To protect against any degradation in your paper stock it's worth investing in an airtight plastic storage box, they are readily available from most of the tightwad shops or office supply places. Also look at putting some desiccant in with the paper. You can buy moisture absorbing crystals now from most supermarket or hardware stores, or take the cheap route and recycle the little packets from other purchases, ie) shoes, electronics, pre-packaged naan bread. You'll find them in a lot of things. A few packets in the box will help a lot. And don't forget to change them every few months.

 

Sorry I can't be of more use.


Computers. They'll never catch on.

 

_AM_sig_zps00cdfd1a.jpg

 

Tiny Tyers Targa - The build saga continues - Aging wood - A recipe for staining wood - Don't take a fence - Step by step paling fence - An old shed for my new cars - Wooden garage under construction

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Garrry,

 

The ebay supplier I was using was renascentcollege, but they are supplied by another ebayer: 21cdigital anyway.

 

The supplier I tried last week was ivy10070, but his paper had even worse flaking than the previous supplier.

 

I am tempted to try Hearns Hobbies in the CBD, as they used to stock these as well, but at 3 or 4 times the price, so might see if they are better quality than the stuff off ebay.

 

Thanks for your tips Embs, that is similar to what the seller told me as well. I do keep the sheets in the original sealable zip bag inside the original cardboard envelope, but it does sit in my workshop with all my other slot car stuff, so might try the crystals as well. Just strange that it has only started happening a few months ago.

 

Cheers,


Graeme

~~~~~~

 

(Life is like a sewer....................What you get out of it depends on what you put into it!)

 

My Website

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it possible that your laser printer is now using a different brand (i.e. Generic) of toner?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You beat me to it Michael. That was the next step in thought process. The toner could be melting to a more brittle surface than it was. That is often the case with generic toners. Or the printer is, for some reason, heating to a higher temperature.


Computers. They'll never catch on.

 

_AM_sig_zps00cdfd1a.jpg

 

Tiny Tyers Targa - The build saga continues - Aging wood - A recipe for staining wood - Don't take a fence - Step by step paling fence - An old shed for my new cars - Wooden garage under construction

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"The ebay supplier I was using was renascentcollege, but they are supplied by another ebayer: 21cdigital anyway.

 

The supplier I tried last week was ivy10070, but his paper had even worse flaking than the previous supplier."................................................................................................................................................................

 

 

 

..so it is the paper.

Edited by munter

John Warren

Slotcars are my preferred reality

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought I would check that out, and just went to the printer room, and all the toner cartridges are genuine Canon ones, so unless Canon have changed their toner ingredients lately, I don't thank that can be the issue.

 

I was hoping there might be a few DIY laser decallers out there who may have had or heard of a similar issue, particularly with Canon laser printers. Maybe its just an issue with Canon printers, but they are a very commonly used printer, so I am hoping other people have had the same issue and that there is a solution. If not, I'm pretty much screwed.

 

Oh well, will wait & see at this point I guess.


Graeme

~~~~~~

 

(Life is like a sewer....................What you get out of it depends on what you put into it!)

 

My Website

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Decal paper is made by applying " varnish" to paper to produce the decal paper. The manufacturer may have changed ink suppliers and this varnish is more brittle or provides less adhesion for the toner.

I only use good decal paper from a US supplier,there has been several issues with paper some paper suppliers discussed on the Alps Groups.

I would try and get paper from another supplier to test.

Edited by kalbfellp

Phil

 

Hobart Miniature Car Club

 

Tassie Resins

 

Email

 

 

 

 

 

 

Logos%2016_17.small_zpswkcwjf0q.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Phil. May I ask where you get your paper from? And can you order small quantities? I would just want to try 1 or 2 sheets to start with and see if it works any better.


Graeme

~~~~~~

 

(Life is like a sewer....................What you get out of it depends on what you put into it!)

 

My Website

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi this may be a help or a hindrance. Some time back I ordered a new batch of decal paper from my supplier of several years service. I got the same results as you then the next sheet chewed up inside the printer and killed it stone dead. Its a Samsung CLP-315. After some discussion the supplier agreed to compensate me which paying for a replacement printer of similar quality which I located on ebay. They agreed that they had changed their supplier and hadn't done sufficient testing to ensure it's quality. I still have the replaced printer and located a new supplier on ebay for paper which all worked fine. Sounds to me like a clear case of shortcutting.

 

I have now stopped printing but I have a number of sheets of both white and plain still here in my stock. This paper is from the newer supplier and I am sue it's fine. I am a long way away but if you e mail me with your address then I will send you a sheet of each foc for you to try. If you are interested we can come to an arrangement over the rest if you want it. Happy to help always had lots of help from you guys, regards Chris


Ashes to ashes funk to funky we all know Chris is a junkie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Chris, will pm you my address.


Graeme

~~~~~~

 

(Life is like a sewer....................What you get out of it depends on what you put into it!)

 

My Website

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Got that, the paper is on the way today, Wednesday.Keep in touch. Should take about a week or so to get to you. Post here from NI is faster than rest of UK because we are oppressed. Or something like that......


Ashes to ashes funk to funky we all know Chris is a junkie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agree with Phil. tango is pricey here in Oz but is the only way to go. I have used the inkjet version rather than laser - if I mucked that up I'd likely be out of a job. 😊

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Phil & difinity,

 

Thanks for the info, so is that Tango Papa Decals? I think I found his website (http://www.tangopapadecals.com). Doesn't seem that expensive, cheaper per sheet than what I am paying now, but I guess postage is more expensive?

 

Thanks,


Graeme

~~~~~~

 

(Life is like a sewer....................What you get out of it depends on what you put into it!)

 

My Website

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was using Crafty when I first got my Alps, but had one lot that gave me adhesion problems, they also did not have any blue backed paper when I ordered years ago.

Price difference was very marginal then, no idea now.

Edited by kalbfellp

Phil

 

Hobart Miniature Car Club

 

Tassie Resins

 

Email

 

 

 

 

 

 

Logos%2016_17.small_zpswkcwjf0q.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well,

 

I tried Chris's decal paper, and the results were no better, unfortunately. So it looks like its the printers I am using. Perhaps the newer model Canon printers, or toners are no longer suitable for decal paper. I did post a message on the Canon support site, but the first thing they wanted to know was a serial number, so they are obviously not aware of any generic issues, or are not prepared to admit them.

 

So I guess I'll have to start looking round for a relatively inexpensive colour laser printer for home, as I'd prefer not to go back to inkjet decals. Sounds like the Samsungs are pretty good value, and reliable. Any recommendations out there? Don't need speed, just quality, and reasonable running costs, and of course, works well with decal paper.

 

Thanks,


Graeme

~~~~~~

 

(Life is like a sewer....................What you get out of it depends on what you put into it!)

 

My Website

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What are your reasons for not wanting to go back to Inkjet decals - I am happy with the results I am getting - but as I am running out of decal paper and have access to a colour laser printer - I was thinking about buying some laser paper to try it out

 

cheers

David

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi David,

 

My main reasons for getting away from inkjet decals is the need to seal the decals before cutting them out and applying them.

 

I don't tend to go for full car covering decals that would take up most of a sheet. I tend to make up full A4 sheets containing hundreds of individual, number, logo and advertising decals, and then just mix and match and cut out the decals I want to use for each project.

 

That means I may take a months or even years to use up every decal on a sheet. What I found with the inkjet decals is that the clear acrylic sealer I spray the sheet with eventually dries out and become brittle after a few months. So when I go back to an old sheet and try to use it, the acrylic sealer itself develops microscopic fractures along the cut, that renders the "seal" null & void, and so the ink bleeds around the edges. I have tried using various scissors and sharp scalpels, but they all have the same effect.

 

I also tried slicing my decal sheets into narrower slices, which was quite effective, but I couldn't go any smaller than 1/3 sheet at a time in order for it to feed through the printer Ok. And I still had the same basic issue because I still couldn't even use up a 1/3 sheet in time before the sealer became too brittle.

 

So I switched to laser decals, where you only need to seal the decal once its applied. I am still cutting out and using decals I printed years ago with no issues, just starting to run out of them. I've been using the Canon printers at work for years to do this, so I'm really puzzled and annoyed to find they simply don't work any more. Admittedly they have all been upgraded to newer models in the past year or so, with improved sharpness and quality of printing, but for some reason are no longer effective for decal paper. I don't often print off black or dark decals, so maybe the issue has been around since the newer models were installed, and I just haven't noticed. The black and very dark blue and green inks I can just about wipe off the paper with my fingers, and it just falls off as a powder when I cut through them. The lighter colours won't rub off, and looks OK when I cut through them, but if I brush the edges of the cut, tiny bits of ink do flake off, its just harder to notice because there is less contrast, and also much less flaking.

 

I don't know if other inkjet users have the same issue. I had thought of maybe cutting out the decals first before sealing them, but that would mean planning ahead and working out what I needed hours or days beforehand, which I am not good at. I tend to look at a car and think, what number will I use this time, and what decal will I put there, and there.... I have also found that trying to spray anything on a small single decal will just send the decal flying off to the floor. Or, I could seal the sheet and then carefully cut out every single decal, but that would take many hours, and lot more patience than I have, and then of course, I'd have to carefully organise them so I can find them again when I want them.

 

So how do you cope with that issue?

 

Regards,


Graeme

~~~~~~

 

(Life is like a sewer....................What you get out of it depends on what you put into it!)

 

My Website

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Graeme

 

I do a similar thing Graeme I cut the A4 sheet in half and print on A5 - filling a sheet with left over sponsor logos or numbers

 

I haven't had the issue with the sealer cracking I use a gloss sealer Krystal Clear I got from Bunnings

 

I also seal my cars with it.

 

Think I will have to give a laser decal sheet a go

 

cheers

David

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thread revive

 

My usual source of decal paper is no longer in business and my stock is down to 1 sheet of white and clear (which is enough for my next project) so I am searching for future projects so not in a big hurry. I am looking to buy 5 sheets each of white and clear inkjet and a couple of sheets of white and clear laser to try out.

 

Did an eBay search and found the Ren College place Graeme mentioned. Not a lot other than them unless I go overseas. What is Ren College's inkjet paper like. A bit cautious about buying their laser paper after Graeme's experiences. Plus their postage is ridiculous.

 

Any suggestions for supplies that sell small quantities at reasonable prices without charging an arm and a leg to post.

 

thanks

David

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...