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Cooper T53 Mk 2 - Second Build

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I do believe that the classic feeler gauge is a cigarette paper.


Computers. They'll never catch on.

 

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Tiny Tyers Targa - The build saga continues - Aging wood - A recipe for staining wood - Don't take a fence - Step by step paling fence - An old shed for my new cars - Wooden garage under construction

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Thanks Slotbaker - I gave this another bit of thought last night... drifting off... as we do..

I now believe that it may simply have something to do with the polarity of the motor...

Some DC motors (not all) run better one way than the other... and, just perhaps - in the design, it was agreed to simply run the right hand track rail to the positive.... and hence - this caused the pinion to rotate in one direction.... and therefore - the crown went on the right.....

 

As for backlash - yes, I don't like anything more than the minimal that will allow the motor to run freely... it's all noise after that and it must amount to wear - as each bit of grit and dust picked up and added to the lubrication poultice can grind away even further..

 

With grooved, guided crowns - like Slot-It and Scalextric - it's difficult to get the mesh to the point of a close fit.. without the use of shims.

 

With the older Scalextric cars - it wasn't so bad - because you could press off the wheels and move the crown along the axle... these newer knurled sets are probably best left alone... unless there is some way of inserting shims between the end running load carriers without requiring dis-assembly.

I have slit things before to have them spring back into place.. I don't know that this would be possible with fitting shims within such a tight tolerance.

 

As for Slot-It - they are great.. having the grub and using a hardened steel axle - affords adjustment to great extremes.

It is also possible to fit 3/32" retainers on the axle and use those to set tolerances with shims.

 

My little RD alloy crowns were grubbed onto a "flat" I filed for all three - the crown and both wheels. This "set" the grub positively on the axle and a very light dollop of Loctite on the head of the grub prevented it from coming loose. It might be an issue should I need to loosen them again... next time, I might just use nail-polish.. acetone will dissolve that quite readily - the nail-polish worked for me on all applications in my former history in this sport.

 

I had set my clearances to within 0.1mm with both these Coopers. I used Slot-It shims - the set with both 0.5 and 0.1 shims comes with a double ended shim feeler gauge... I believe it is better suited to the needs of purpose than cigarette paper... but, at the very top end of cost.. the sets of Slot-It shims and spacers amounted to more than the cost of a model.... but they do indeed effect a great mesh.

 

No work done on the build yesterday - totally exhausted, sore, burned and spent after day out firing the little Na steam engine.

 

Hope to have some of the wishbones on today.... have "orders" that we need to run errands... so, the chances of getting them all done tonight are probably now spent.. hope to post up later tonight...

 

frats,

Rosco

Edited by rosco01

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I now believe that it may simply have something to do with the polarity of the motor...

Some DC motors (not all) run better one way than the other...

Maybe.

The normal std motors are neutral timed within factory limits, meaning that the timing could vary plus/minus a tad resulting in motors possibly running better one way or the other.

 

I have been running Plafit Cheetah II in 1:24 scale scratchbuilt in-line chassis, and check the polarity to see which way they run best using my calibrated ears :unsure: , then put the gear on the appropriate side. They do vary and I have used gears on both sides.

 

Looking forward to seeing more of your build.

:)


Steve K.

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Thanks Slot-baker...yes, can appreciate that DC motors are wound neutrally.... well, most of what we use - I believe.

I do know of motors we use in r/c model aircraft and heli's which are wound differently.... they certainly don't like running with reversed polarity.... it upsets the ESC (electronic speed controller) no end..... along with any telemetery readouts back to the Tx (transmitter).

 

As for getting the edge - I can appreciate that if a motor breaks in better in one direction than the other - it would be pertinent to place the crown on the side of the pinion which affords greatest potential...... thanks.

 

Phil - ok, didn't know that one... so the actual "mesh" and "bind" is wound up using the thickness of cigarette paper... wow, that's tight... but, it would ensure the absolute minimal clearance when removed.... I expect a drop of water would cause this to totally disintergrate....

 

I have "wound" many a leaf of shredded tobacco using the Tally Ho paper...... it used to have a ruler printed on the edge.... in inches when I smoked (some 32 years back now)..... I expect it to be still available...but, of course - you'd have to ask for it from below the counter or behind the cupboard doors....

 

No work for the past two days on Cooper #2.... hit a brick wall - my magnification light finally snuffed it.... it has a switch mode transformer arrangement (Jaycar unit) and it keeps on tripping out... I believe the IC is overheating - and I can't simply replace the IC... the numbers on it don't line up with anything in any catalogue... even Jaycar cant help me... so, if you have one - good luck, hope yours lasts for years.

Today, I went to my local re-seller feller... and purchased a simple transformer pack..... 16v at 300 ma.... removed the 240 from this light unit, used the wiring and switch but connected the output of the little transformer pack to run up the 240 lamp wiring.... all working fine now, thanks for asking....

 

No work on Cooper 2 tomorrow either... golf in the morning and out to a 60th birthday lunch (mine!)... no senior's card yet... but if it arrives - will be very keen to get the $9 two course meals on offer at the local clubs.... a lot better than the $27 plus we pay as non-members...... more money to put into my little hobbies.... or, maybe more often to go out to lunch... that's how Mrs. Rosco would see this going.... well, maybe a bit of a compromise between the two.......

 

frats,

Rosco

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Ok bed time.... did get some work done - now that I've got a light again......

 

Sanded down primer on body.... now have new all time record for body weight.... 4.93 grams..... it's pretty thin in places where it won't come into line of fire... and will get reinforcing from the nose to the windscreen with a thin strip of model aeroplane fibre-glass tape and c/a.... so, probably will sit on around the 5 gram mark before paint....

 

frats,

Rosco

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Time to get serious about this build again.. a few side issues with other models on the bench.

I have decided to use some plasti-styrene tube for the body mount post on this model... attaching it with JB Weld.

My main reason for its use is due to some flexibility in the material - which hopefully will prevent cracking or splitting.

 

Initial results are favorable.. but might revert to the built up layers of Milliput if there are any signs of fracture.

 

Whichever way I go - I'll run a strip of fibre-glass woven tape along the centre of the nose and bed it in with cyano-acrylate.

 

The upper front of this body is very thin - as supplied. It will certainly need some reinforcement for racing. A head on nudge at speed would prove the thin resin cast very vulnerable to breaking.

 

I have decided to remove the fuel filling caps on this model. I note from pix that these are elevated from the body a little more than the original manufacturer model purported.

 

I cut them out from the shallow body recess and will fit a deeper recess platform - along with extending the filler tubes and finally fitting the caps atop.

I am looking at many pix of the proto-type to identify whether the body opening is rectangular or circular...

Of the ones I have found thus far - they appear circular.

 

I am quite impressed with JB Weld... I have not used it before.

It has a workable life of about 4 hours... thus affording re-positioning of multiple parts by association.

 

It seems to file and drill very well... it is supposed to contain metal.. which I believe to be within the black "metal" tube.

It stinks a bit - like all epoxies... and cures out to a very shiny finish. It will need keying prior to paint.

 

I found it available locally at JayCar for around the $15 mark.

 

Body wheel arches have been adjusted, two body sections re-assembled. Short length of 0.8 mm brass wire fitted to drilled hole as support for intake cover to lower body. Nose intake reinforced with JB Weld. rear body pivot mounting plate holes drilled - cast resin plate removed. Rear body tie-downs removed.

Windscreen locating notch filled. Mirror mount holes drilled. Nose emblem hole drilled.

 

Waiting for weather to improve to spray base coat of Protec 1K etch.

 

No further work on chassis (next).

 

frats,

Rosco

Edited by rosco01

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Check period pics of the car you are building,re filler caps and roll bar. The GP rules changed in 1961, requiring roll hoops and filler caps to be blanked off. Tasman rules varied from International rules.

Old23 lost concourse points a few years ago simply because the car was judged as a 1960 Cooper when it was a model of a car racing in 1961.

I try and find period pics when building as many restored cars are not correct.


Phil

 

Hobart Miniature Car Club

 

Tassie Resins

 

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Thanks Phil,

I had absolutely no idea that rules had changed - forcing such modifications to be made.. and, of course - for period accuracy of modelling, those holding such valuable information, play a vital role in keeping us honest...

 

As for my purposes, I very much doubt that anything I produce will be anywhere near close for concurs purposes.

 

I can (and do) become very self-critical of my own work - I could never subject others to appraise my efforts with any noted respect to such critique necessary in this classification.

 

As for build #2 - it has sadly been forced to take a back seat for a while.

An impending trip away in the old EK has taken centre stage - preparation for a 4 - 5,000 km round trip to the National championships in Hervey Bay in just on 4 weeks surely must take precedence?

 

The JB will have cured nicely by then - the body mount post is now sitting very nicely and holds the chassis almost exactly where I believe it will be better located than #1.

 

So, folk - we pause for a spell... I expect a very much desired brief return to the build in late June - then an absence again for the duration of winter whilst we "migrate" north.... amongst the main throng of grey nomadic wildebeasts....

 

frats,

Rosco

Edited by rosco01

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Bump... and brrrrrrr - who turned off the solar heater?

 

We're back folk, be a while yet before I return to the workbench... blasted caravan and truck need a lot of cleaning/servicing.. wife wants new kitchen...

Everyone goes through this when they'd really like to pick up tools again and unwrap "mothballed" projects.... sob, sob - no tears please, we had a great escape.

 

Thanks for holding fort, kept a casual eye on proceedings. Ordered the two Pioneer '68 ponies for father's day.

 

Best I get this domestic work cleared - then it's back to typing forum posts.

 

frats,

Rosco

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Bump - where did that 5 1/2 years go?... 

So, we're back on the bench with Cooper #2... just a little work done, in readiness for the March deadline for this year's Tasman Cup proxy series... 

Have almost picked up where the build was left off... sorting wheels - but my PG tyres have gone mushy and turned red - there may have been a "bad batch" and the 20 or so I ordered in are probably all from "that" batch... I have ordered some MJK tyres, which will be a close match - but need a bit of sanding down to meet specs... and slightly just a little wide in the step..

I have not had any issues with MJK tyres... and these are the first lot of PG ones.... no-brainer as to where I go next.

I have filed down excess metal from the two brackets and also taken a bit more weight out of the body.

I was able to tap the Slot-It guide post with an M2 set of taps and it is now nicely secure in the guide mount... adjusted down the post for a neat fit, without any binding..

Next up, we will begin to add suspension detail... and probably spray the body in a 1K etch.. and find out where the "voids" are for filling with putty... 

 

OK.. just an update for now.... #2 is back on the bench...

 

frats,

Rosco

Edited by rosco01
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Ok folk,

back into Cooper T-53 production mode again - LJ is now on back burner until I get this model up for the Tasman Cup proxy this year.... 

Lot of time over the past two days.. sorted a lot of the bugs out that caused this model to go into mothballs and went to Cooper #1 for the T/C proxy in 2015.

We are now in Protec Etch Pro primer... lots of body work to do, but we now have a rolling chassis and I'm pretty happy with how it has been brought into shape.... the crown has been shimmed nicely and the mesh is really good.

A lot of work done on the front axle and wheels.... I have changed quite a few things from #1 - the result of which makes it much more user friendly and serviceable. I'm seriously thinking the same plan for the LJ... 

 

Suspension detail, exhaust and a bit of work on wheel inserts should just about bring the chassis up ready for this year - it does not have the huge amount of detail I went to with #1, but should look acceptable... I'll add suspension arms and springs.... that will just about be the limit for this model..... not the full torsion bar and link with brake drums and lines that I went to with #1..... 

 

There is a distinct difference in the two resin cast bodies... from our two most known suppliers. Both are great kits, but one just has the edge on the other - no names, no pack-drill..... 

 

I'm hoping to have colour on the body by the end of this week.... and the chassis should be getting close to having all its detail added.

I am undecided as to tyres - currently, the trued PG ones are fitted - but are not glued.... 

 

Ok... couple of pix - "Protec" Etch Primer... thinned 2 paint/1 GP thinners.. this model will be finished in lacquer... poor #1 came back from the last TC series looking very sad... I don't believe I'll use acrylic again for a proxy series - it's too sensitive to fingerprints and whatever chemicals get thrown around during the events... 

 

#1 is back in the paint shop too.... stripped back to zinc chromate and resin.

 

006-Cooper-1-and-2-rubbed-back-mail.jpg

 

001-etch-prime-mail.jpg

 

002-etch-prime-mail.jpg

 

I'll give the etch prime a light rub tomorrow and then hit it with a few sacrificial coats of Tamiya fine primer - decanted from the aerosol and airbrushed...

 

frats,

Rosco

Edited by rosco01
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The body is fantastic, the chassis should work brilliant...I only hope you're going to fix that track width :mellow:

1960-jack-brabham-cooper-climax-t53.jpg

 

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Print It, Build It, Race It, Improve It, Repeat...B)

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Thanks Kevan,

lots of work to go yet... but #2 won't get the detail that #1 did.

As for track - when I built #1 - they track looked huge on that one as well.... when the suspension arms and dampers were added - it seemed to consume that excess.

I am working on 48 mm outside to outside specs.. which are within the rules for the Tasman Cup Proxy.... 
If I wanted to bring the model back into proto-type spec for wheel-track, it's only a matter of four grub screws.. but, I don't believe they would be more than 1 mm too far out at each wheel... which is 2 mm of track excess...

 

We'll see how it looks when I have added the suspension - I believe you'll see that this apparent huge excess is all but gobbled up .

By the way, that looks like "Black Jack" behind the wheel?

frats,

Rosco

Edited by rosco01
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Ok... another big day.... blocked back both Cooper #1 and #2 then sprayed Tamiya fine grey primer over both.

I used the Badger 360 airbrush again and am getting more confidence with each session... but, I must remember to press down on the trigger before pulling it back for paint.... a couple of times I didn't.. and "drips" came out and onto the model... fortunately this was early in the session and the following passes gobbled them up.. plus, it's only primer.. not top coats - has to be sanded back anyway....

 

So, here they are.... in grey primer...... guide coat tomorrow then block down and we'll see how much work there is to be filled or blocked down... 

 

Pic....

 

003-1-and-2-Coopers-Tamiya-grey-primer.j

 

frats,

Rosco

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22 hours ago, Kevan said:

The body is fantastic, the chassis should work brilliant...I only hope you're going to fix that track width :mellow:

1960-jack-brabham-cooper-climax-t53.jpg

Hi Rosco, I have to agree with Kevan on this one,..........while I have no objection with the Tasman width rules,....48mm width is far from scale on the T53.

Track widths (tire center to tire center) for the 1960 T53 were 47" front, and 48.5" rear...this converts to approx .37 mm front, and 38mm rear (in 1/32 scale).

Assuming you are using 6 to 7mm wide tires the overall width would be approx. 43mm front, and 44mm rear.

Not suggesting you change it, as your rules do permit 48mm, and, this will no doubt aid handling, but, it certainly is noticeably wider than scale.:)

 

Cheers

Chris Walker

PS,..........good job so far, and, good luck in the "Tasman".

 

 

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Thanks Chris, much appreciated.

I virtually copied this second build from the first.... the little car went very well in the series.

I agree with both you and Kevan on the very wide track.. there is a Cooper T-53 revision three in the wings... that one might be my scale model... that never goes on a Proxy adventure.. 
I prefer to think of #1 as a "winner" car that is a bit like a racehorse that has been sent into retirement... still gets a run around the track,, but never under threat of injury.

 

#2 will probably be the annual Proxy car..... and I'll more than likely just change tyres and braid (and any calateral damage suffered) each season... 

 

#3 will be "scale".... and as much detail as I can thrust upon it.... I do love these little Coopers... 

 

Thanks for your reply, Chris... about to use the scratch builder board for the first time on the LJ Torana XU-1 Peter Brock build.... 

I have a "new" way of running the front  wheel/axle... think you'll approve... details pending... 

 

frats,

Rosco

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33 minutes ago, rosco01 said:

...I have a "new" way of running the front  wheel/axle... think you'll approve... details pending... 

Rosco

Hmm...interesting :rolleyes:


Print It, Build It, Race It, Improve It, Repeat...B)

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The Tasman Cup rules allow 50mm outside to. Outside, while this is out of scale for many cars, it is what is allowed. Cars are up to 1965. 
Running scale width makes a car uncompetitive agains the wider cars.

It is all a compromise.

As for the Gage tyres the bleeding of the pigment and softness is normal over the years.

Often Eurethanes only last 2 to 3 years especially if they had got hot at some stage.

 


Phil

 

Hobart Miniature Car Club

 

Tassie Resins

 

Email

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Thanks for clarifying, Phil..... my little #2 Cooper is set at 48 mm... same as #1 in the previous proxies.

Tyres... hmmm.... my models may go years without being taken down from the "vault".... it seems wasteful to fit urethanes to them if this is normal service life.

I have not suffered any loses with MJK's as yet.. and some of those are now over 8 years old.. don't know if they are urethane, but they grip fairly well.... and are easily trued.

The PG ones certainly had some grip, but unless you are running these models frequently - it's a price that is probably not justifyable... not to mention the work in replacing and truing them.

 

frats,

Rosco

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On 2/1/2021 at 8:34 AM, Kevan said:

The body is fantastic, the chassis should work brilliant...I only hope you're going to fix that track width :mellow:

1960-jack-brabham-cooper-climax-t53.jpg

 

I notice in this pic, if you look very closely at the air intake - as will the Bill Patterson Cooper T-53 I modeled previously - there are two vertical fins inside the opening.... this is the second Cooper I have seen these..... anyone care to elaborate?

 

My guess, is that the fins directed air flow to the left and right... and there was an opening at the rear of the front cowl directly pointed to the brake discs....?

 

 

frats,

Rosco

Edited by rosco01
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