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rosco01

My First Builds

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Ok folk - with a new revised deadline, you are probably asking what the heck I'm doing wasting time posting into this thread?... well, I can't do a solitary thing at present... waiting for primer to dry... and won't start blocking it back until tomorrow...

 

Five pix - all in stark comparison to my last previous lot..... bummer!

 

Got lots to tell - but not now.... basically, biggest issue was that X-20A thinners... and the decanted "trapped" propellant.

 

I gave up at 01:30 this morning and went to bed... I still didn't get to where it was ready to re-prime... that needed another hour this morning after I got up.. so, yesterday was from 08:00 until 01:30 the next morning.. blocking... working around the bling bits....

 

I did manage to effect some needed corrections though in the process.. the gap behind the driver on the frame has been corrected, the huge Cooper namebadge on the front reduced in height and I've managed to straighten out some of the warped panels...

 

As for the mirrors - about to attack them... I will grind down the size of the posts - don't fear! - I drilled out the centres and have brass rod in them since day one... so, I can now make the posts narrower.. they looked very "clunky" in the pix... and would have driven me crazy to look at them over time.

I had worked around them on the body for hours and hours yesterday - believing the c/a had them really rigid in the body.. today, when masking up - one of them twisted... and I was able to pull the brass rod out of the body... the same thing was possible on the other side... that would have saved me so much grief yesterday.... note to self - at least try, don't just "accept"....

 

The block down was well and truly worth the effort - there are huge voids in the underlying paint - it would have all gone pear-shaped if I'd simply blocked a little, sprayed white and then masked up the silver....

 

I couldn't see the damage after blocking - but, by golly - I certainly could as soon as the wet primer hit the surface.

 

That blasted TS-13 (which I now like, by the way) had penetrated right down to the 1K etch... the rubbish white coat was soft and the base coat had softened so much that it wouldn't sand... it almost peeled with rubs of the paper.... so, it had to come off....

 

In my efforts to rub down - I've gouged into the resin in places.. around the mirrors... and on some parts of the bonnet... not huge gouges - but they would have stuck out like antennae on ants if I'd simply re-sprayed the white and hoped for the best..

 

So, it sits with two coats of white primer on it - and a very thin mist coat of grey. I do this as a guide coat... a few light wipes with wet/dry should remove the grey... if it doesn't - there's a void which needs filling... exactly same practice with a full sized project....

 

I can't foresee having to re-spray primer... so, with quite a few hours of blocking down the primers tomorrow - I should have the white base coat on... and be able to mask up the following day for the silver.... fingers crossed folk...

 

Ok - enough.. I've got mirror posts to grind down..... pix...

 

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Lakeland004mail.jpg

 

frats,

Rosco

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I don't have a lot of experience on decanting. Only done it the once. But everything I've read says allow at least 24 hours for the propellant to degas. Even longer has been suggested with no sign of the paint even so much as thickening in the decanter. I've only tried it once myself with some Tamiya fine primer. I left it 24 hours before I put the lid on and even then the jar that I had decanted into was cool to the touch, cooler than a standard jar of paint.


Computers. They'll never catch on.

 

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Tiny Tyers Targa - The build saga continues - Aging wood - A recipe for staining wood - Don't take a fence - Step by step paling fence - An old shed for my new cars - Wooden garage under construction

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Yes Ember, if I was allowed to copy/past the third party article over on the USA Tamiya site.... guess some might like to take a peek now...

The chap warns of "boiling" the propellent....

His method is to decant using a "pipe tube" into a jar... he makes reference to using one jar inside the other.

He further suggests to leave the decanted "cold" liquid for a minimum of 24 hours at room temperature.

He further states that there is no need to add thinners - the thinners are part of the TS mix.... and, because when it comes up to room temperature - it's much more viscous.... (thinner... flows out faster etc. etc. etc.).

 

The sole purpose for my wanting to decant - was to be able to use the great mix that comes in TS aerosols.. as opposed to what I previously understood to be only proprietary thinned by the X20A...... we all know better now... go for the Tamiya Lacquer Thinner - if you can find it.. but, it's aggressive.

 

Now folk - you can see that I did not insert that document into this post... but, if you read the article - you might very not gain any further information......

 

The Lacquer thinner will lend itself very well to our purposes.... being that of a much harder shell finish - and much quicker drying.... but, be warned - it is aggressive and probably won't stand up to trying to "flood coat" the surface for a one-shot gloss finish... or you'll be very quickly back to where I am at present... more especially if you've got some problem areas under the surface.... absolutely no joy in believing those have been put to rest under coats of paint... the lacquer will bring all your nightmares back to the surface again.....

 

We should then be able to use these great Tamiya pot colours AND our airbrushes.... which would suit me perfectly...

 

I do like quick drying paints - another reason I detested that blasted X-20A.... three weeks - and the base coats on this little car were still soft.... how the heck can you expect to get a hard finish on top... with such soft coats underneath....

 

As Phil has stated - use of just one system, and preferably one brand would probably afford the most effective results.. but, as we very well know young lady - you are a whizz with your efforts of mixing systems/brands and getting magnificent (to drool over) results....

 

I attacked the mirrors tonight - and am reasonably happy with results... I removed all the cast mounts and have used the brass rod - which was drilled into holes the full depth of the mirror...

 

I'll take a peek at how they look when the primer dries.... enough to handle... then fit them loosely ... I might have to add some 1/16" brass tube over the 0.8 mm rod if it appears too thin... and then maybe file them back to give them some shape..... don't know, too "occupied" with getting this paint done again.... priority #1.... for the rest of this week.....

 

So, I look at the little car up on the shelf above this computer... I'd love to bring it down and start sanding... nup - tomorrow... out to get some paint in the morning.. will leave the model outside under cover in the moving air.... but, expect to read/see some progress by tomorrow night... tick, tick, tick..... who wound that blasted clock?.... it's banging away very, very loudly at present... hope I've got enough time to finish this for the series....

 

frats,

Rosco

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Be very careful when refering to any information about Tamiya paints. They changed manufacturers about 4 years ago, so what applied prior to that change no longer allies as the formulations also changed. Tamiya is only a reseller.I have seen some retail suppliers still refering to the old MDS's!

I would suspect that many would not know the product changed.


Phil

 

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Thanks Phil,

with most forums I write to - there's always someone looking over us and what we post... thank goodness, this is the same case here... thank you.

 

Ok - that might explain why I couldn't find any DS on Tamiya products... not even any instructions for paint...

 

Fortunately, what I posted was reference to a third party article... just maybe, that's why it was third party and not from Tamiya.. I don't believe I've committed plagiarism - I was careful to use my own words.

 

Off to track down some Tamiya Lacquer thinners today.. and have a friendly chat with my LHS's... I'm guessing some might take on board what I have to suggest... those who don't will lose a customer.

 

I will, of course - declare that I couldn't find any Tamiya documentation, but further suggest that advice should be factual from either documentation or experience.... not speculative...

 

Hope to have the white coats back on by tonight... maybe a pic in this thread.. and just a couple of words.

 

frats,

Rosco

Edited by rosco01

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Well folk, if there ever was any doubt - there's absolutely none left now...

I went to two of my LHS's looking for the Lacquer thinner... the first didn't have it.. and his stock of Tamiya paints was becoming sparse...

I asked about the L/thinner and he simply admitted he'd never heard of it.. but would go on line and check..... came back to tell me it was not available in Oz...... he couldn't order it in either...... strike 1.

 

I went to the second shop and lo and behold - there the blasted stuff was - high up on the top of the stand... clearly stating "Lacquer Thinner" - no series number... but a product number at the bottom of the label in very fine print.... Item 87077 and below thank (thank goodness) - Conforms to

ASTM D-4236... I will now chase this up this data sheet and find out what's in it...

I purchased a 250 ml bottle for the same $13.50 as the X-20A... wish I'd known.

 

Now, the soupy bit..... advice. I explained my predicament to the fellow, who cut me off time and time again as I described my findings.

I was literally treated like a child who didn't know better - but this professed wisdom certainly was worth every cent I handed him in gratitude.. which was absolutely zilch!

 

I was told that this could not be mixed with acrylic... it was meant for enamel... the smaller, square bottles high up on the rack... and yes, I did not know there were two different variants in the Tamiya numbering system..... they, for example - for gloss white ARE X-2.... but, if you read the label - the smaller one is Enamel and the larger round one (both claiming to be 10 ml) states Acrylic.

The X-20A was for acrylic... neither could be interchanged....

 

I was now on the back foot and ears wide open... I was told that the "Lacquer Thinner" was only for enamel... which clearly is not marketed as "Enamel Thinner"... and the X-20A for acrylic... hence the "A" suffix.... well, that part I could accept....

 

We covered a bit of ground in process - and there were many, many contradictions where I firmly believe pride and knowledge were attempting to be restored.. I had this person flat on the mat a few times and simply gave up expanding the discussion... it was going around and around in replies to my suggestions and experience... final result was that I had issue with the information I received on the previous few visits - by this same "expert".

I asked of the ingredients in the Lacquer thinner and got absolutely no response... I suggested it might simply be automotive acrylic thinners and was "told" that "no - this will not attack plastic kits"... hence why I wanted a PDS and some factual information.

We jousted a few more times and I was none the wiser.... well not in the product anyway - but certainly in the person uttering superior knowledge until.... and I thought it might - I finally go the "I haven't done this yet - I use another brand, but it's what customers tell me they do with this product" resulting in conclusion of any participation by me... that pretty much sealed any credibility.. so, I simply grabbed what I wanted, paid for it.. and left....

 

Folk, it's only because they carry the Lacquer Thinner that I will return (one day)... and I won't be asking questions..... I will certainly not disclose which LHS this is... nor the person I have been so unfortunate to consult with...

 

I do not profess to have much understanding in this new system - so please, do not take what I post as verbatim.....but, I firmly believe I hold a lot more than some of those who are retailing it.....

 

To afford myself best opportunity to get this right - I bought bottles of both the enamel and acrylic... plus the Lacquer Thinner and set off...

 

I came home, had lunch - and then set about the USA Tamiya site again for confirmation of what I had read and believed to be correct.

 

Now, Phil - jump on me if I am not allowed to do this.... and I will delete it poste haste....

 

For the purpose of factual and documented product information.... I will extract the relative portion of what is posted on the USA Tamiya site... whoever currently owns it.

 

Legally, I believe I can do this - now that I've given credits to the original documentation and location.....the "world" can read this for themselves on the site - and I don't believe Tamiya will acknowledge anything but my promotion of their product...

 

 

Quote....

 

Tamiya acrylic bottle paints are excellent for airbrushing plastic model kits whether you're building a model tank, airplane or car. When you begin using Tamiya bottled acrylic paints, we recommend thinning the paint for the best possible airbrush experience. Airbrushing Tamiya acrylic paint directly and un-thinned from the bottle is usually too thick for most applications. It's suggested to use the two thinner options available from Tamiya's finishing supply product line-up.

 

The first choice is the X-20A Thinner and the second is the Tamiya Lacquer Thinner. Tamiya X-20A is the easiest to work with as clean-up is simple and less messy for modelers who are new to airbrushing. The paint will dry slower using X-20A which will give modelers more time to work with the paint.

 

For advanced modelers Tamiya Lacquer Thinner will yield two main benefits, but at the expense of a messier clean-up. Tamiya paint thinned with Tamiya Lacquer Thinner will result in the paint drying much faster and the paint will have a harder shell. For modelers who sand their work, a harder finish is preferable. A softer shell is easier to over-sand and it's easier to go too deep into the paint.

 

So, now I've got more confusion... this "enamel" thing has crept into the argument... I would expect that there would be an "Enamel" thinner for enamel..... so, we now have acrylic, lacquer and enamel....

 

My intention at present - is to thin the new acrylic white paint with Lacquer Thinner - spray it out on some scrap styrene card and watch... repeat... watch... repeat ... "if" I'm happy with the result, I'll go ahead and spray the body... If there is absolutely any doubt - I'll revert to window cleaner thinner and follow what I did with the GT 40... but, top coat the finished colour coats with TS-13... applied in numerous mist coats and some final ever so lightly heavier ones... contradiction of words there, sorry folk....

 

Phil, automotive acrylic is just so straight forward compared to this gobbeldy-gook....

As previously admitted - I love working with auto acrylics... but the results seen obtained by others using Tamiya for modeling are very much sought after.....

 

frats,

Rosco

Edited by rosco01

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Ross this is the most open slot forum the owners and moderators seldom jump anyone for posting links and information onnother sites, that is what makes this forum so great!

Back to paint!

Auto acrylic is the "simple" answer!

 


Phil

 

Hobart Miniature Car Club

 

Tassie Resins

 

Email

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Thanks Phil,

if the moderators wish to delete/modify what I posted above - I would not hesitate in taking on board that I over-stepped an acceptable line....

 

Phil - I understand and have considerable confidence in auto acrylics.... I just wished that I could say that I had any left now in model acrylics... I'm shot - and so is the paint job...

 

Ok folk - today.... well, another 12 hours on the body paintwork..... and I'm even further back than I was yesterday - at least then, it had the primer coats on...

 

I worked and worked at getting the surface close to ready for top coating... had made the "corporate" decision that I would stick to what I had used in the Tamiya acrylic with window cleaner as thinners... mainly because I am now running out of time....

 

I started to gently block down with 1200 w/d... and was making way - when..... catastrophe!... big time - my clumbsy fingers (although only gently holding the model) had deeply impregnated the surface with furrows of fingerprints... and deep... I tried to rub them out - but it got worse - until finally, "chunks" of the blasted soft stuff tore away..... I walked off in disgust.....

 

Yes - far too soon to block back... even though it had some 36 hours in the warm fresh air and inside the house overnight... but - obviously, not enough.

 

I'm still of the opinion that the blasted X20A thinners in the white coats beneath reacted again with the hotter thinners in the primers....

 

Ok decision time - out of this room and away from sight of the mess...... simple one word action....... STRIP! That X20A had to come off..... it would return to haunt and haunt me until I got rid of it... if, that was the issue...... I don't believe the primer coats were heavy.... I had left an hour between all of them... (3) in the warm air.... the styrene card strip was much more sandable - right down to the styrene... so, I'm firmly of the opinion that it was the X-20A in the white coats which has been the bug-bear in all this sordid affair....

 

I have just completed stripping everything off except what is left of the Protec 1K etch... and now, with even less time - I have to resort and commit to this Lacquer - or, at the very least - give it a shot on some scrap... it's the only way I'm going to get those coats on and be ready for the offered practice session on Monday.... and to deposit the car for the series....

 

No pix... but I can adamantly tell you all one thing.... if I rub this little car any more - one of three things is surely going to result.....

 

1/ A genie will appear and crush me into the floor for being so stupid and careless..

 

2/ The model will be absolutely no good on the track - because it will always want to point north..... or....

 

3/ It will do what it's proto-type's engine is named.... and there'll be even more mess all over the place...to clean up....

 

So folk - for all of you hoping (or not) on tonight's posting of success in a nice clean white coat or two.... sorry, I've let you all down..

And Embs - I just failed your painting class - my humble apologies...I'll happily wear the dunce's cap for as long as you prescribe...

 

I'll re-spray the Protec tomorrow with Automotive GP acrylic thinners... then do some mixing with this new fandangled Lacquer thinners in the Tamiya X-2... on some scrap styrene for an hour or so.. if it is favorable - I'll go ahead and spray the model... if not, I'll ditch that lot and revert to the X-2 with window cleaner as thinners.... so, we should have white coats on by tomorrow night....

 

I'd much prefer the Lacquer now - it will dry harder, faster and will almost make my clumbsy fingers unable to mark the surface... along with being able to mask up and spray the silver chrome with a bit more confidence..... and, folk - before I forget.... I will be using some TS-13 between the white and silver chrome... just in case.....

 

frats,

Rosco

Edited by rosco01

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As one of the mods around here, I'm of the opinion the more information that's housed here the better. I'm quite sure the others feel the same way.

 

I really can't help anymore. I'm surprised at how many issues you're having with this paint job. I'm at a loss to know what to suggest anymore, Rosco. Never had this kind of issue in my 5 years of mucking about with painting toy cars.


Computers. They'll never catch on.

 

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Tiny Tyers Targa - The build saga continues - Aging wood - A recipe for staining wood - Don't take a fence - Step by step paling fence - An old shed for my new cars - Wooden garage under construction

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Thanks, Ember - off to bed now... head is too sore to think/do any more... tomorrow is another day.

 

Yes, I can fully appreciate you have enjoyed almost unwaivering success with Tamiya... I'd gone pretty good with the GT40, as you recall.. but this one... the only difference I can think of is that blasted X-20A.. and, with the primers of yesterday - not leaving enough time for them to pull down before sanding...

 

I'll be back in class soon - and will continue to appreciate every jot of information and advice you offer....

 

I fully expect now - after this X20A is now gone from my life - I'll settle back down and actually enjoy completing the paint work on this model....

 

I really don't know - the only imaginable thing I can put these horrors down to is the bad choice of paint thinners...

 

I'll post up more on what I've read about Tamiya paints - if I have the forum's permission... there's a bit in it - took a very long time to find it - and most of what I have read relates directly to what I have experienced..

I just wish now that I'd had access to this information on the Tamiya general site... be it found by Company website or Google .... damned hard to find - and I'll offer up what I believe appropriate to the forum...again, if I overstep or look like placing myself in legal dispute - please jump on me straight away and I'll delete...

 

frats,

Rosco

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Personally, I wouldn't use Tamiyas X range of paints for the main colours and only ever use them for trim. Others may use them but I find they are a bit like house paint and take about 10yrs of UV to bake.

Edited by Wobble

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Ok folk,

I do hope some of you have been waiting for this - and it is truly worth the wait if you have....

 

Tamiya X series Acrylic paint.... not enamel - Acrylic.

 

Yesterday, I was "told" that I couldn't mix Lacquer thinner with this Acrylic paint..... absolute blasted well nincompoop sales staff rubbish!

It mixes beautifully.... and just wait until you read about spraying it...

 

Although the report I gave yesterday didn't quote mixing ratio's - I decided to try 2 parts Acrylic paint to 1 part Lacquer thinner - far too thick, I'm afraid.. and after only one pass on my test piece of styrene card - came in to adjust.... it wouldn't spray under 20 psi and with the needle almost fully out... the spray tip head was forming up dollops of paint..... far too thick...

 

I then mixed up some more at 1 part Acrylic paint to 1 part Lacquer thinners and went out again.... much, much better.... down to 15 psi and about five turns out from stop on the little Badger 200 internal mix single action...

 

I ran quite a bit of paint through and onto my test piece of styrene.... no issues, no drama - no problems with dissolving the bare styrene.... so, as the Lacquer thinner label states - "won't damage plastic or styro surfaces"... and, it's true....

 

The paint mixed perfectly with this thinner.... no coagulation, no separation and no problem with the way it laid down on the surface.... in fact - it does it an awful lot better than using any of the other thinners I have used.....

 

I would dearly love to take this card and my little Cooper over to the imbecile who treated me like a little kid yesterday and deposit it in front of his nose... along with the bottle of Lacquer thinners and Acrylic paint used....... these, folk - are the front line of anyone wanting information through retailers.... but, in defence - the Tamiya site is a blasted well treasure-trove of corridors, mirrors and dead ends... they really need to pick up their act if they want to compete with other manufacturers.....

 

I found that spraying this "new" mix produced amazing results... and the flash-off period until just "tacky" was around 10 minutes.... well, today it's around 25 degrees and probably 50% humidity.... so, that probably helped quite a bit....

 

My test card of styrene showed finger prints after 15 minutes... but after that - it was almost impossible to press them into the now well cured surface of a "moderate" build.. not glossy, but good coverage.

 

I did another run on the same card (second coat) in 30 minutes with much the same result.... much better depth and the beginnings of a great glossy finish.... dust had settled on it between coats - so I could probably done better...no matter - no sign of issue with the paint or styrene....

 

Again - it was around 15 minutes before I could not leave finger-prints in the new film....

 

30 minutes again - and I hit it this time with a "heavy" coat.... not soupy, but very "wet"... and "just" to the point of flooding....

15 minutes and I still had finger prints.... 30 minutes and they were impossible to make.... the thinners had escaped and I could "just" barely smell the fresh paint under my nose....

 

No sign or issue with the previously warned ignorance of "you can't mix Lacquer thinners with this acrylic paint... you must use the Enamel"... - rubbish!

 

Ok - time for the model - 23:30 last night I finished blocking back the rotten soft film of that X-20A thinners.. right down to the bare resin in places.. pix later...

I had a great battle around that added bling - but believed the surface to be almost void and scratch free....

 

After the hour of testing on styrene... I decided I'd now go ahead with the 1K etch and this new lacquer thinner acrylic... X-2 Acrylic, in fact.. round tub....not the little square Enamel one....

 

I mixed up some more paint - but now believe it needs more thinners.... I later found that the blobs were building in the spray head again... and I've got just a couple on the model ... even though I tried not to spray "hands down".... but horizontal.... no issue, I have absolutely no fear on sanding this tomorrow after coming home from a visit to the city.....

 

I sprayed the 1K etch - with very pleasing results.... first "heavy mist" coat, 30 minutes then a "just wet" final... that's when all the scratches and edge borders showed up...... the wetter coat of 1K etch with automotive acylic thinners (very thin, actually) went through previous remnants of the same stuff and bit into the Tamiya primer.... there are definite signs of the border between anything with Tamiya (grey) primer and the 1K etch...

I will now revert to using automotive primers - highly thinned from now on.. I don't want to risk the Tamiya primer getting softened again.

 

Ok - so... 1 hour later - I shake up the new Lacquer/Acrylic mix again and bite the bullet...... just a mist coat first... and very, very pleasing results..

yes, the borders and scratches showed up... and almost disappeared some 20 minutes later as the thinners came to the surface and evaporaterd.

 

1 hour after this - the second coat.... slightly wetter...

Results were even more pleasing..... I am now getting a really great gloss build up... the scratches and borders are now beginning to fill....

 

1 hour later - final coat.... this time, it was a wet coat.... not soupy, but wet enough to make it look like it was about to let go.. knowing that it wouldn't...

 

Three coats at this mix was more than enough to get a full cover and brilliant gloss....

 

I haven't been out again to look - but, I did see that there are just a couple of places which I will very lightly sand.... in fact, might run1200 over the whole model before applying the TS-13..... silver stripe, decals and final TS-13.

 

I firmly believe that the model will now be ready for Monday.... I had very grave doubts at this time yesterday when I decided to strip the paint.....

 

So - go get yourselves some Tamiya Lacquer Thinner... item 87077 and try this for yourselves.... you can now have all of the Tamiya X Acrylic paints in Lacquer format..... dries quick.... I expect the surface will be very hard (well, the styrene card test piece is - I'm about to sand that to find out.. even though it was only laid down 3 hours back).

 

I will warn you though - I don't believe the Tamiya aerosol primer to be appropriate - unless you intend to multi-mist coat it with this lacquer... and try to prevent these thinners penetrating down into the primer.....

 

I have more information and numbers on Tamiya paints... and will post them later - forget completely the X identification... the enamel and acrylic both use these..... I firmly believe it's the first two digits of the item number which designate actually what system is involved....

 

As for mixing this Lacquer thinners with Tamiya enamel (as I was told to do yesterday) - no, no, no.... I found documentation from Tamiya which stated quite categorically not to....... but to use the "enamel" thinners...... more strings to my bow...... coming Ember? we've got a target to take aim at......

 

Blasted well retailers.... I wouldn't mind so much if he had admitted that he hadn't yet used the system and was going on "customer information".. but no! - stood there over me and rubbished my comments concerning the contradiction on what the labeling stated....

 

Wont' disclose the LHS - I'm sure they get some of their facts right... but this one has certainly lost all credibility with regard to Tamiya paints... and an awful lot/almost all on any professing.....

 

More later.. maybe a pic or two.. hope it hasn't all "slid" off the model... looks so shiny.....

 

frats,

Rosco

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Glad things are finally going your way.

 

I've not used enamels for ages. Don't think I ever will again. Acrylics cover all bases now. Hardness. Speed dry. All of the different flakes and metallics. Even acrylic lacquers. Actually, I don't think I've ever used a non-acrylic lacquer.


Computers. They'll never catch on.

 

_AM_sig_zps00cdfd1a.jpg

 

Tiny Tyers Targa - The build saga continues - Aging wood - A recipe for staining wood - Don't take a fence - Step by step paling fence - An old shed for my new cars - Wooden garage under construction

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You seem pleased you worked it out Ross. I wouldn't have the patience. Good on you.


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Thanks Ember and Bram.... yes, just took another look at it tonight.. and the scrap styro card... this is probably the way I'm going to spray my slot car models now... I'm really impressed with the gloss and the very hard shell finish...

 

I expect there may be some people who believe that just as good a result can be obtained using Automotive acrylic paints... but, I should probably put my hand up here and suggest that this system of Acrylic pot paint AND the Lacquer thinner be given a shot....

The particles in the Tamiya acrylic are far smaller than I have seen in automotive acrylics..... and, because the Lacquer thinner is simply a medium to carry and float them on the surface - plus a bit of fusing into the underlying coat.... these small particles, I believe - generate a much higher lustre and reflection.... so, I suppose you want to see some results...

 

Firstly - these were taken before I risked the entire project coming to a stall.... the blocked down state of some near 24 hours back.... well, 23 actually.

 

White%20acrylic%20lacquer%20001_zpst5ursyau.jpg

 

White%20acrylic%20lacquer%20002_zpshg8ukgwc.jpg

 

White%20acrylic%20lacquer%20003_zpselp3kgxh.jpg

 

White%20acrylic%20lacquer%20004_zpsif8f4yry.jpg

 

The white you can see in the above pix is the resin plastic.... you can see though the etch primer (green) where there is still Tamiya grey primer... and these were the areas where the following two coats of 1K etch with GP automotive thinners penetrated and resulted in an "edge" after flashing out the thinners....

 

From these pix - two coats of 1K etch were applies as described in all the dribble of my previous post...

 

Then - the three coats of white today... and about 15 minutes ago - I have tried to take some shots to reveal the reflective ability Tamiya acrylic possesses using the Lacquer thinners..... this is totally untouched... I do believe I would be able to polish these out to a superb finish... but, they will be lightly sanded and a couple of mist coats of TS-13 applied and dried before masking up for the silver chrome....

 

pix...

 

White%20acrylic%20lacquer%20009_zpsuoqo42ht.jpg

 

White%20acrylic%20lacquer%20010_zpsypzdhskc.jpg

 

White%20acrylic%20lacquer%20011_zps4tfqxkra.jpg

 

So folk - these coats will get another 14 hours or so before I come back from the city tomorrow and begin lightly sanding - and the mist TS-13 coats....

Mask up Thursday and spray the chrome silver.... it is now my intention to use the Lacquer thinners in the silver chrome as well..... of course - the scrap piece of styro will be well employed to perhaps reduce risk.....

 

frats,

Rosco

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Much better. When this is done and gone you have another job to do, and that is educate the LHS staff to the wonders of the Lacquer thinners.


Computers. They'll never catch on.

 

_AM_sig_zps00cdfd1a.jpg

 

Tiny Tyers Targa - The build saga continues - Aging wood - A recipe for staining wood - Don't take a fence - Step by step paling fence - An old shed for my new cars - Wooden garage under construction

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Yes, Ember - I'll go and get another couple of 250 ml bottles of Lacquer thinners just in case the discussion goes belly up......they do carry an almost full range of Tamiya - whereas the other LHS's only have enough to probably satisfy the Tamiya rep and win any client benefits.

 

I'll then lay my case (and model, styrene card) in front of them...

I suppose, to make best use of this education - would be to try and keep my attitude positive, with just enough sarcasm for the barb to be felt....

 

I will inform those following this thread... but not for a few days....

 

Paint could be sanded now - but I'm off to the city.... hopefully, that BT-19 is still on display...... camera batteries charged.... and $15 entrance fee at the ready.

Will pick up my 50 mm engineer's square, suction vice, plier set, pin-vice and and scribe from AJS... might grab those economy dividers as well.....

 

Gotta go - bus to catch...

 

frats,

Rosco

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Quick update (if that's possible)...

 

Went into the city today for jewellers supply tools.... and the shifting up exhibit at the NGV. It was magnificent - could have been a lot more cars.. but the ones there were to dream for.....well, some of them maybe not - absolute highlight was Jack Brabham's BT-19... with original motor still in it.... took 345 pix of the exhibit.... probably 100 of the BT-19.... next scratch build after Cooper #3.

 

Lightly sanded down the body this afternoon after my trip to the city

 

Did the same on the test styrene.... then set about the TS-13... the styrene card with X-5/lacquer thinner simply shone on each successive coat... after three - and some 45 minutes... I decided it time to spray the body... very carefully..... it just got better and better and better... two mist coats, and one "float" the surface coat... no runs, no dust... just a couple of little marks which I did not pick up on in the white coat.. not going to fix them.

 

So, the result - just magnificent for my liking.... I can't wait to mask and spray the silver stripe now.... top coat again and polish the lot after it comes back from the proxy series....

 

After some 90 minutes, it's still pulling down - and getting more and more reflective ..... hope it doesn't pull to tight - it might crack the body....

 

Pix tomorrow folk - had a big day today... golf tomorrow, then shopping.... oh, this life of mine - and I'm retired.... how the heck do your working folk get time to model.....?

 

frats,

Rosco

Edited by rosco01

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Ok folk,

nearing the end of the build now.

Masked up today. Mixed up the Chrome Silver with Lacquer thinners - and ran it over my test card.... absolutely brilliant... that's all I can say.

I then took the model out and sprayed 2 coats with about 30 minutes between them. I did not key the white - just sprayed directly over the TS-13 (which I will now no longer use - read later).

 

I pulled the masks from the test piece without one jot of issue... so, then pulled them from the model..... the masking tape had left mottling again over the TS-13.

After a bit, I tried some compound to see if it was adhesive from the masking tape - or if the tape had actually damaged the TS-13..... sadly, that great finish I had was damaged in many places.

 

I decided to come inside and just play for the rest of the day.... and had a go at mixing up some X-22 (clear) with this newly found Lacquer thinners. As with many auto acrylics I mix.... I went for a thicker ratio with metallic base.. just 1:1 instead of the usual 3:2 I use with solid auto acrylics.

 

I went back out to the garage and loaded the airbrush.

I set the paint screw a fair way in and dropped pressure to around 12 psi.

 

I tested the mix by spraying the previous Lacquer based Chrome Silver over my test styrene card, which I had masked up without any issue after removing the masks from it..... so, I'm guessing there's still some X-20A in the brew of paints on this body.

 

From the very first run - this X-22/Lacquer Thinners mix brought immediate results.... I was amazed at the clarity and ability to "flood" the surface to a deep gloss... on the first coat!

I left it 10 minutes and applied a second similar coat - and the result was even more pleasing....

 

In a "rush of blood" - I pondered if I could now spray the model with this great coating.. risking having to sand it back as best I could for the series.

 

I went inside again and took another close look at the fresh Chrome Silver and the mottled TS-13..... the silver was great... and really had nothing to loose with the clear coat..

 

I set it all up again and went for "broke" - immediately, the clear surface came back to a glossy, almost unmarked finish.

I left it for 10 minutes and re-sprayed the second coat with even more pleasing results.... another 10 minutes and I had reached the point where it was beginning to look too wet.... pulled down the roller door and just left it...

 

I went back out some 30 minutes later to find the best finish I have been able to achieve since returning to model spray painting....

 

So, folk - again - more blasted rubbish from the LHS about not mixing acrylic with this Lacquer thinners.... it's simply brilliant... and - has allowed me tor return full time to my favoured airbrush.....

 

The coats were tack free after the 30 minutes... and the little inconspicuous bits I tested were almost solid/hard cured in 1 hour.

 

The TS-13 took a good day to reach this - and even then, after some 2 days - the masking tape still managed to mottle the surface.

 

Ok - enough... show some pix.... two from the masking up - and the rest as the model now has been brought back from a ruined state of last week...

 

pix..

 

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final%20mask%20004%20mail_zpspdgobsds.jpg

 

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final%20mask%20005%20mail_zpscctyx1kq.jpg

 

I will leave the model alone tomorrow - plan is to cut out the decals and apply them Sunday - I now only intend to hand paint over the decals with X-22.... just to seal them.

 

Oops, forgot - yesterday- mirrors. I decided to make up some mirror arm covers. The cast ones were too thick for my liking and the 0.80 mm brass rod I had drilled out the mirror heads and c/a'd the rod into was too thin.

I cut some 2.5 mm long 1/16" O.D. brass tube and soldered them over the rods.

They are now painted in 1K etch and this lacquer thinned chrome silver.... I will fit them probably Sunday when I do the decals and fit the windscreen.

 

frats,

Rosco

Edited by rosco01

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Ok folk - milestone tonight...... now in finished state for the upcoming series...

If it runs ok tomorrow at Cheltenham - I'll leave it with Stubbo ....

Wasn't entirely happy with the finish today - the paint really needs a bit more time to pull down and be compounded.

It appears that whatever is still underneath has not pulled down - and it's caused that great finish I had two days back to now need a polish... it was like glass - now it looks like someone has dropped a small droplet of water into the surface.... not rippled, but not glass.... it will polish out, just disappointed - that's all.

 

Windscreen - my first.... well, next one will be better.

I had intended to "stake" the windscreen in at the rear until I had canopy glue take hold all around.. but, there simply wasn't enough meat left in the vac formed screen to afford this.. so - back to plan "B" - cyano instead.

I ended up placing four dots of it discreetly - which held it nicely in place (with bows and buckles around the non-tethered parts.

I sprinkled a fine dusting of baking soda over these drops (which is a favorite trick of mine from the micro helicopter hobby) - which causes the c/a to go off in a flash - and becomes a sandable/drillable and very sound base .

I then went about running some canopy glue around the joint - in three sessions, until got the result (or, as best I could get) to finish it.

 

Once that was done, I then set about fitting the mirrors... again, poked them through the holes and a drop of cyano on the underside - then a sprinkle of baking soda.

They are rigid enough for track work - but should the unfortunate result - they will "give" instead of breaking open the body.

 

Finally, it all went back together like clock-work.... I had to do a little bit of work on the body mount post - it had cracked open.. so, set about the cyano and baking soda again... it really needs another day spent on it to get this right... and I will when it returns in 3 months.. but, for now - there's a small dollop of Loctite in there which will hold the c/sunk 10 BA brass screw in place.. and, which won't be an issue to remove if it needs attention during the series....

 

I simply ran a strip of masking tape around the chassis with my name on it in Laundry Pen....

 

Connected it up to my power supply and gave it a run for 10 minutes at differing voltages..... I can't detect any change from the previous time I did this prior to it making its debut at Cape Patterson on a track.

 

So, for those very patience (and bored at times) folk who have followed this thread since the beginning - we're done...... for now....

 

Pix....

 

x%20final%20001%20mail_zpsawshbmpp.jpg

 

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x%20final%20004%20mail_zpsxypitefl.jpg

 

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x%20final%20006%20mail_zpshlx7pwzn.jpg

 

x%20final%20007%20mail_zpsn0knugnm.jpg

 

I'd like to thank everyone who has helped and guided me through this build.... I'd fill a page if I tried, so - I won't force you to read all of them.

 

Special thanks, however - to Ember who set the seed of building - and has been of marvelous assistance (and you thought you had read "all" my posts on this build... ask Ember, she'll tell you that you have only read half).

Munter for supplying the body for this model - and wonderful assistance/direction with the chassis.

Kalbfelb for his patient advice and suggestion to improve the build - and make parts of it much simpler than I had intended. The Tassie Resins Cooper is next in this thread.

Stubbo, for his very encouraging and diplomatic guidance - plus some "home grown" hospitality and in sourcing some needed components.

 

And - finally, to the forum and all who have posted throughout this thread - you have all given me the inspiration to keep this little build on track..

And one final special thanks - for tolerating my incessant dribble through, as someone put it - War and Peace.... my version is longer...

 

Back when I continue build #2..

 

frats,

Rosco

 

frats,

Rosco

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That's looking pretty darn good from where I'm sitting. I especially like the middle two photos. Here's hoping it goes as good as it looks.


bram1_zpsfkhrhndv.jpg

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Lots of flaws in it, Bram - but, I've made the deadline on time.

The windscreen is way to far up - I wanted to fit it flush with the little reveals at the rear of the cockpit - but if I had cut it that low, it wouldn't have stretched over the join between the dash and body.... so, it sits full length - but a bit high....

By the time it comes back from the Tasman Proxy - there is every chance it will need a replacement screen.... that's my "cunning plan"....

 

No, it won't go fast - too heavy.... it came in at 60.89 grams... so - the paint, mirrors, glue and that little bead of Loctite have pushed it over the 60 target I was aiming at.....

It does have the bigger motor in it - and that RD gear-set..... but, as I have posted all though this thread - I have not build this model for speed... I just want it to be reliable and to look like the proto-type.... well, as near as I could get it first time around....

 

paint was the biggest issue..... you'll never see another bottle of Tamiya X-20A in my paint shop again..... that, I can guarantee you.

But, to draw a positive out of using it - it lead me the way to the very impressive Tamiya Lacquer thinners.... albeit a the rebuttal from a "professed" and "lofted" prohibition by my local LHS... grrrrrr!

 

frats,

Rosco

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It looks a million bucks Ross. I hope you're proud, 'cos I sure am and all I did was watch.

 

I dare to propose a joint build some time in the future. You do the hard bits and I'll do the driver. ;)


Computers. They'll never catch on.

 

_AM_sig_zps00cdfd1a.jpg

 

Tiny Tyers Targa - The build saga continues - Aging wood - A recipe for staining wood - Don't take a fence - Step by step paling fence - An old shed for my new cars - Wooden garage under construction

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Thanks, Ember - actually, I've already started on that "joint" build.... the first part of the puzzle is about to be mailed to you.... hope you like it?

 

Fiery 1 - I had absolutely no idea where to go with a build, or how to set about it.

The very cohesive and reassuring members of this forum made this little car - and, as Ember puts it - most of the work was done in following the thread and replying.

 

I would encourage anyone to engage in a scratch build - if I can do it, anyone can.

I only have basic tools - no machines other than a 12v Dremel tool clone, a 15W soldering iron and an airbrush were used in the building of this model.

.

Pin vice, drills and jeweller's files and an assortment of small pliers were the main tools used - plus lots of w&d paper.

Many workshop objects - rods, steel plates and a vice were used to form many of the more difficult pieces.

 

I'll start a new thread for #2 - Cooper T53 Mk 2, second build - coming to a forum thread near you anytime soon...

 

Maybe I'll show pix of some of the techniques I learned when making up the next lot of little bits - but it was the drills, files and sanding which produced most of what you see.

 

frats,

Rosco

Edited by rosco01

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