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Renovating Guide Post Mount To Scalextric C17 - Lamborghini

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Hi folk,

as promised - I've started a new thread on building up a guide post mount on the above model.

The original had two brass contact strips incorporated into the guide mount - the guide had a threaded shaft which was held in place by a brass nut...

 

After in-numerous departures from the track - competing against it's stable mate - the C16 P4 Ferrari - the guide mount on this model completely sheared open and could not be repaired.

 

At the time (around the 1985 mark) we had just picked up two new Scaley UOP Shadows... and I could get replacement guides for those.

I set about trying to fabricate something up - but was unsuccessful... so, this model went into mothballing for the next 28 years....

 

Last year, on returning to the hobby/sport - after finding out that it was indeed still alive and kicking - I eventually made contact with Kevin at AR who tried to assist .... sadly, no replacement parts were available - so I bit the bullet and commenced to make good something which would bring the model back to the track....

 

My initial attempts were pretty dismal - but, having endured more than 20 years in model railway - including scratch builds... I set about making up a mount for a short stem guide (yes - I'd forgotten that I had used one of these until I started photographing it tonight)....

 

I used styrene card of varying thicknesses and laminated them with MEK.... and under a sort of press until it cured.

Once I had the mount platform made - I measured out the pivot hole location and drilled it - reaming it out until a smooth but relatively free turntable was effected with the short stem guide inserted through the hole - and held in place by the pronged split stem.

 

I then had to mark out and grind/file away relief for the leads and eyelets to pass in front of the mount.... it really isn't pretty - but it works.... see pix.

 

The next step was to add some limit pins to prevent the guide turning beyond any desired angle... so, I grabbed a couple of circuit board pins and a drill of the same size... and set about locating where to fit the pins... my first attempt failed - and I had to re-manufacture the mount.... so, second time around - I was able to use the now over-drilled mount and locate a more exacting location for the pins......

 

I used baking soda and cyano-acrylate (picked that little trick up from my heli hobby) and voila - the entire assembly is held rigidly in place...

 

I did have to play a bit with getting the lead angle of the guilde mount correct...

 

But - in comparison to the original - this retro-fitted and bush-bashed variant had given much joy to those who again can run this model around the track.....

 

Whilst I was at it - and now having access to upgrades... I decided to fit bearings into the die-cast rear gearboxes....

The years of running on carpet, wooden floors with heaps of fluff - and the eventual wear/tear of the axles through the die-cast holes - as bearings... left an awful lot of slop in the rear axle... in fact - there was considerable wobble both vertically and laterally within the entire assembly....

 

Very carefully measured the diameter of some new Slot-It bronze bushes and progressively worked my way into the die-cast - until the new bearings could be force-fitted.

Once I had reamed out both sides - I fitted a new hardened steel 3/32" axle through the holes and then fitted the bearings....

I used some Loctite 262 to secure the bearings in the die-cast.

I fitted some new slick tyres to the original wheels and was very surprised at how true these tyres were on the old wheels.....

 

I left the model for well ov16er a month for the loctite to fully cure out - and on finally getting enough nerve up to test the model - was absolutely amazed at how well it now ran....

 

There was one further issue with this model - and it could never really be competitive with the C16 Ferrari....

I believe there was a design fault in the motor mount... it slung far too low.... and would bottom out on the Scaley Hump back bridges... and occasionally would scrape on some of the less looked after track....

 

So, I set about grinding out the cockpit and lifting the front motor mount up.... eventually getting it to run parallel to the track...

 

This model, folk - is the faster of the two.... but I also fitted the bearings and new tyres to the C16.... they both run an awful lot better than ever before...

 

I'm now contemplating doing something to stiffen up the front axle now - and fit replacement tyres (those in the pic are original 1985)...

I would like to pick the brains of those who have done this - and can give me some appreciation of the benefit of fitting bushes and new axles to the front..... the amount of built in (manufacturer) slop on the front axle - well - quite simply, it might not as well be there... i have run the models without the axle in place and it really doesn't make much difference to handling - that I can note....

 

Ok - you've read the novel... now see the movie....errrr - pix...

 

frats,

Rosco

 

 

Lamboguide001_zpsaf16dcaa.jpg

 

Lamboguide002_zpsec60b4dd.jpg

 

Lamboguide003_zps35d02dc8.jpg

 

Lambobearing001_zps67969bc3.jpg

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Very nicely done there sir...

Thanks for that...

 

For the front axle, you could probably just use a 2.5 / 3 mm grub screw between the axle posts, and gently screw it up till it just clears the axle...

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Thanks S-R - yes, that would certainly stop the axle from slumping - but I fear it would result in the wheels not touching the track.... I should probably have included a side shot of the guide mount.... you would then see that it makes the model sit nicely parallel with the track... but, at that height - the front axle is mid way in its travel.... so, that pair of wheels are doing nothing to help keep the model stable - no so important on straight track - but I'd like to get a bit of cornering ability out of the front wheels....

 

I'm leaning towards fitting bushes in the axle guide slot... and maybe then using the grub screws to tweak the height... I guess these could be removed and the bushes set by reaming out holes for them....

 

For now, my plan is to create some form of spacer in both posts to determine the best running height....

Both these models - the Ferrari and the Lamborghini - were supplied ex factory with so much slop in the front axle - that the front wheels/tyres were for cosmetic purposes only.....

 

Thanks S-R ... I'll keep this thread going as I progress with tweaking the front.

 

Oh - by the way - does anyone know what the "blue" motor fitted to so many of these 1965/70/80 Scaley cars was called.....any specs...?

Not that I intend to replace them... just curious.

 

Following that question - my next one is to somehow fabricate a front windscreen for the model... I'm leaning towards cutting up a drink bottle and trying to heat-form the material over some sort of mold which I can effect using the window aperture..... any thoughts?

 

frats,

Rosco

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If you put bushings on the axle, remount the axle to the chassis with the bushings inbetween the mounts, you can then glue the bushings to the inside edge of the mounts...

Not too sure who I learnt that trick off of, but it works well...

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Thanks for that - I'm starting now to lean on not pulling the wheels off... but building something in which is of a split nature....

I did pull the rear wheels - and didn't have an issue... might do one of the fronts.... but if they are knurled - I might do more damage to the 30 plus year old wheel than is worth the benefit.... watch this space.... could be up for new front axles and wheels yet.... the tyres are already shot - so there's a chance that I might replace one/both of these models front assemblies anyway...

 

frats,

Rosco

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Hi Rosco, pretty sure the blue motor is referred to as a Johnson motor. Never had one but seen one in action and they're pretty quick. I think somewhat prone to overheating in prolonged use. Also pretty sure those early axles were plain shafts and not knurled. I think if you grab both front wheels and turn them in opposite directions you'll pretty soon feel if they are knurled.


bram1_zpsfkhrhndv.jpg

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Thanks Wobble - I'll try and slide one around tomorrow... I remember the rears weren't knurled.... but this is Old Scaley.... I'm am told on good authority that the newer stuff is most definitely - and that unless fitting ally hubs - not to meddle with them..

 

As for the Johnson motor... not sure on that - Jed sold me one of those to go into an old Scaley F1..... it was an anodised frame with a black end bell....

These older ones might also be Johnson... something about a "24D" is ringing bells in my head..... from whence I was still at high school....

 

Let you know how the ongoing resto is going... once I get the Lambo done - I'll hit the Ferrari P4 (C16) next... I've got a real soft spot for that old girl... won lots of races with it... by golly it was quick - compared to the rest of the lame ducks we have in our collection... but nothing compared to what you chaps are missiling around your layouts with.....

 

frats,

Rosco

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Also Rosco, just thinking about your front axle. Would the easiest option be just to fill the top of the slot with your baking powder supaglue mix and file it out till you get the right height. Easiest way to find out approximately how much you would need to fill is to sit your car on a flat piece of track and press down on the front corner above one axle mount and the opposite rear wheel should lift off the track. You should get a pretty good idea of how much vertical movement there is at the point where you pressed down. If you can limit the upwards travel the car should run a lot flatter around corners.

Edited by Wobble

bram1_zpsfkhrhndv.jpg

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Thanks Wobble. I am going to attack this today.... I spent most of last night getting the upgraded suspension kit to work properly in a first run Slot-It GT40 (separate thread).

I was playing with some styro card and it dawned on me that I could also use it to make some spacers to slot into the axle slots of the Lambo... and, as you suggest - work them down until I get a satisfactory travel on both sides.

It doesn't need to be much of a travel - but one which will allow each side to push up enough not to de-slot... yet provide enough support to hold the car down through a corner..... I don't know why Scaley ever created so much travel in the front axle... maybe it was designed purely as a cosmetic addition..... no racing car would look right wiithout front wheels....

 

I'm still leaning of fitting those bronze bushes, though... I fitted some to the rear as in the above.... if I did the front as well - it would complete the mission.... think they were $8 for 10 from AR...... once I get the wheel height right. I can simply ream out the posts and fit the buses..... only one wheel has to come of... the axle is straight - so there's no need to fit new ones... there would never have been any stress on it to cause wear... the arrangement simply "floats"....

 

With stiffening up the ride height - there will now come a bit of wear.. so, hence my thoughts on those bushes.

 

thanks again, Wobble....

 

frats,

Rosco

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Rosco, The wheels on your old Lambo are just a press fit not knurled axles.The blue motor is a Johnson motor and being so old might be "clogged up" a bit with oil and muck from the 40 plus years it has been around.I always soak the old ones in metho for a couple of days to dissolve all the years of junk in them then run them on about 6 volts for about a couple of minutes or so after re-oiling the bush on the drive end and just a little in the other end throught the can window with just a drop on a wire to get into it ..but just a drop each end..don't overdo it..Iff the motor is any good it will then run ok. The other motor you were thinking of is a 26D...powerful 24th scale motor from the '60's.

Kevin.

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Thanks Kevin - yes, they are indeed old warriors these motors - thanks for the Johnson info... much appreciated.

 

I have opened up these motors many times over the years.... knowing not to fully prise home the tags on the can.

The windings are all good, commutators still have heaps of meat left on them. I do clean the commutator and very lightly oil each end of the shaft.

They are old motors though - and there is wear in them... but I'm not changing them out.... they still run very well, albeit a bit noisily.... the new MJK tyres on the back have really brought these models into a new league... I believe I can get a bit more out of them by setting the front axle though.

 

I have recently used Inox MX3 on a needle to lubricate bearings - including motors.... just the slightest hint of a lube job - certainly nothing which can get up onto the commutator.... if one snuffs it - I'll strip them all and re-oil with light sewing machine oil... I've got some of the aftermarket slot car oils - and wasn't that impressed... they are very "heavy" to my way of thinking... much like model train lubes..

 

I use Parma white grease on the cogs and pinions though.... again, just a few smears... a short run on low volts - then wipe the excess off.... seems to work a lot better than what we did when we were kids.... by golly, I had some very "oily" cars running around the track for quite some time... and the fluff and much it used to attract.... no wonder these motors are now "noisy"......

 

Yes, they are old, Kevin - but I love them ever so much.... I guess I'm struggling to let go of more of my past...... the replacement tyres, however - they'd have flung off sooner or later... so, for the main - I'm really trying to keep these two lovely old girls running.... with minimal noticeable change........well, to the non-purists, anyway.....

 

thanks again, much appreciated.

 

frats,

Rosco

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Instead of bronze bushes in the front you might want to consider Scalextric X8162 nylon bushes. These come in a pack of 20 and are the regular rear axle bush for new Scalex cars. Should work out a bit cheaper and do the job almost as well as Bronze.

 

Also Rosco, you might find this link of use - http://www.scalextric-car.co.uk/index.html

Edited by Wobble

bram1_zpsfkhrhndv.jpg

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I have recently used Inox MX3 on a needle to lubricate bearings - including motors.... just the slightest hint of a lube job - certainly nothing which can get up onto the commutator.... if one snuffs it - I'll strip them all and re-oil with light sewing machine oil... I've got some of the aftermarket slot car oils - and wasn't that impressed... they are very "heavy" to my way of thinking... much like model train lubes..

 

frats,

Rosco

I recently switched from iNox to 'SuperLube' which is a low friction, high viscosity oil.

Whilst it messes with my head (thinner oil should be better right?), it just works so much better.

The thicker oil fils the 'gap' between the axle/motor shaft and the bushings much better.

The other plus side is that the cars require lubing much less often, like 10x less often.

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Thanks Wobble and S-R... I've now made my bed and am happy to lay in it.... this has really worked out much better than anticipated.

 

I took a look at the Lambo just after lunch today - having spent most of yesterday and all of this morning getting the Slot it Mk 1 GT40 suspension upgrade completed (big... no - read = huge job on the earlier version) and was going to post on the Lambo as I worked through it.... the front axle and fitting bearings as last discussed.

 

When I went to measure where the axle should sit - I was amazed to find that somehow (whether by design or luck) - when I'd fitted that guide post mount - the wheels actually rested on the track hard up against the slot in the body mount... with the guide nicely positioned on the rails..... maybe this is why the Lambo all of a sudden become much faster around out layouts.... can't remember...

 

So, now having that model sort of set up... and just waiting to fit bearings - or not... I decided to pull down the Ferrari C16 from the shelf and start work on it.....

 

I'd more or less done a guide post mount some years back... when I also did the Lambo - but this model was in far better shape up front.. and only needed a bit of re-enforcing to take the short stem guide mount... baking soda and cyano... it's not a bad recipe.... and, you can "build" layer on layer... the cyano will go into cured baking soda and fuse the additional applications...

 

So - now it's a good look at the Ferrari... and I find that on the track (don't have a set up board thingy, but use a piece of my latest 1/2 straight which is still pretty accurate.... the front axle is in limbo as the guide sits on the rails... there's so much slack in the axle - the wheels are virtually doing nothing but roll - and drag....

 

I pluck up the courage to twist off one of the front wheels - and am surprised that it is still very tight... no knurling - as advised... then I pull out the axle.

 

The Slot-It spherical bearings are a delight to slide over the 3/32" axle... and it runs very sweetly in them...

 

I place the car on the track and measure up where the centre of the front wheels should be on one of the posts... then mark exactly on the other post.

I then proceed to try and file a notch in each side - and after 1/2 hour or so give up..... get out the Dremel and mount a twist drill just smaller than the axle reversed into the Dremel... so that the shaft becomes the working part of the drill....

 

The Dremel is kept on minimum speed and I eventually get some burring happening using only the chuck wear marks on the shaft of the drill... it cuts in nicely - and very controllable.

When I had one of them almost to the shape I needed - I went for the file again and then kept working away until the bearing (located on the axle) was a tight interference fit....with just the outside of the bearing proud of the post (for the wheels to run on).

 

I repeated this on the other post and finally managed to get a 3/32" drill bit to pass freely, but firmly in line through both posts - and luckily, centred at the marks I had made on the set-up track....

 

so now, I temporarily fit the wheels to the axle and test it for position on the track with the guide and braid "just" free of being flattened on the rails... I don't know how I did it.. but it was just right first time....

 

I carefully pull off the wheels again without disturbing the bearings and slide the axle out.

 

The cyano and baking soda took to the post and bearing perfectly... and I built up each upper gap... filed them back all around and repeated the build until I was happy.

 

The 3/32" drill bit made easy of removing any excess of build each time I added some... before it fully cured out.....

 

Once I had the bearings in place, I then put the axle through and loosely fitted the wheels again.... no good filling the lower gaps if I needed to tweak the position... but it sat exactly as before... so I finished off the build on the lower side of the post...

 

I filed them off flush, then finished off with that icy-pole stick and super-glued wet&dry I love to work with...

 

I fitted the axle and measured the spacing across it to get each wheel equi-distant on the axle. (you'll see the fine texta marks on the baking soda in the pix below).

 

When I'd finished I fitted the wheels and test ran the model down the track... I am very, very happy with the result... for the first time ever - this model sits squarely on the track and I am really looking forward to running it around a layout.....

 

So, long winded - as always.. but here's the progressive pix....

 

FerrariC16001_zps8382984a.jpg

 

FerrariC16002_zpsd7d4c76b.jpg

 

FerrariC16003_zpsc4af95d6.jpg

 

FerrariC16005_zps4a4f358e.jpg

 

FerrariC16007_zps2e5d957b.jpg

 

The ride height is far too high on this model for me... but way back when - I fitted the replacement guide mount in the post holes of the original.... I did not do this with the Lambo... with free reign, I was able to run the mount way up further so that the stem of the guide "just" cleared under the bonnet.... I should have also done this to the Ferrari... but didn't... and now I have the bearings finished back and front... so, this little faithful model is going to run around with its head in the air - so to speak......

 

 

 

FerrariC16006_zps46141af6.jpg

 

frats,

Rosco

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