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Nzsca Rtr National Events: News, Announcements, Comment

NZ Nationals

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#1 kennedyrd

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 12:07 PM

Hi all, I would like this thread to be used as a way of letting everyone know what is happening for our Nationals, whether it be dates, venues, changes or discussion. Please do not post here if you are not a competitor or intending competitor at these events.

Edited by kennedyrd, 18 August 2014 - 09:09 PM.


#2 kennedyrd

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 12:24 PM

Following a very well attended and I thought successful enduro in terms of happy faces, can I please bring up the foam tire thing again?

The biggest factor in the winning car was it used F22 tires prepared by me, using Craig's techniques. Out of respect to Craig I will not discuss what it is, but it is VERY tedious, tricky to get right and it would seem effective. Last years results were due to the same car being damaged beyond repair but it had a similar advantage up to that time.

There are two options. Keep the existing tire rules and probably get similar results or wipe the advantage of F22 tires by using foam. Should the rules committee be investigating foam some more?

Edited by kennedyrd, 18 August 2014 - 12:25 PM.


#3 charlesx

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 12:37 PM

Hi Chris.

If 12hour Enduro is to continue to race at Wellington (6 lanes, great venue, all central to NZ all add up) I believe foam tyres may be a good option as long as questions on tire and engine wear are adequately investigated, reported on and final decision put to a vote.

With the next Nationals a Napier this is not an issue.

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#4 branco

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 12:45 PM

Well done Chris on starting this thread. Auslot seems to be the "go to" place for all Kiwis so it will be great to keep up with all the news here.

Cheers,

Branco
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#5 kennedyrd

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 01:29 PM

Thanks for that Charles. I didn't want to mention this until the result confirmed it. I agree fully and the foam tires will be thoroughly tested before any discussion is entered into. Mark's idea of a 4 hour endure on my track is excellent as very similar handling characteristics and motor load problems will be encountered. I have helped Wellington lay down glue so will do it the same way they do, but perhaps just a very dilute spay mixture. As for motor life there are problems with the rubber tires now anyway, with our car anyway.

As for venue with 5 to 6 teams looking likely it is logical to stay in Wellington.

As the enduro is more low key and less "purist RTR" I agree foam should not be used for the Nationals.

Edited by kennedyrd, 18 August 2014 - 01:32 PM.


#6 kennedyrd

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 01:33 PM

Thanks Branco. Nice to see you are still a bit interested! Next year I am sure a team will want you!

#7 branco

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 02:01 PM

View Postkennedyrd, on 18 August 2014 - 01:33 PM, said:

Thanks Branco. Nice to see you are still a bit interested! Next year I am sure a team will want you!
I am always interested, but alas no one in South Island was keen this year.
I am looking forward to Nationals in Napier next year.

cheers.
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#8 kennedyrd

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 03:51 PM

More Nationals topics.
-Venues. It would seem the enduro is going to always be Wellington, but the Nationals will alternate between Napier and Wellington and any other NZSCA affiliated club that may wish to offer to host them.
-Ninco Classics-Seems few like them so we are thinking of replacing them with NSR classics. Rules would be virtual identical with the only real restriction being retention of the NSR 20k motor. Thoughts?
-Dates-Enduro in October and Nationals in April.
NASCAR body screws-Seems most racers want them loose. If majority want this then would seem best to change. Please, only comment from those who have actually raced the class at Nats.

Edited by kennedyrd, 18 August 2014 - 03:52 PM.


#9 nvmyre

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 05:02 PM

I would also like some discussion about whether people want to see a change away from Group C either at the Nationals or the 12 hour. Personally I think Group C belongs at one event but not both.
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#10 kennedyrd

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 05:50 PM

I think it is appropriate at both, as per 1/24th format where flexi S16D was chosen as a low cost car, easy to maintain car that people already had experience with from Nationals. From scale point of view NASCAR for enduro!

#11 slotmadmac

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 07:41 PM

Would have loved to have been at the 2014 Enduro. Next year I'll hopefully be there.

For Nats:
i would drop Ninco and I like the suggestion of NSR classics class with stock motor.
For Scalextric NASCAR I don't mind if screws are loose or tight.
Keep Group C.

If numbers increase I also like the idea of a 'novice' class that you can only enter if you have never podiumed at the Nats. Our Aussie bothers do this at their Nats.

For Enduro:

I think Group C is well suited but I don't see any reason why the same class needs to be run each year. Maybe mix it up... Sideways and Slot It have a range of classes. They are essentially the same platform as Grouo C so learnings from previous enduros are transferable. Could run Group 5 / Classics / LMP / Daytona Prototyes.

Just my 5c


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#12 Smithy

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 07:50 PM

Chris I dont care what you say about comments only by those who have raced at the Nats. That is one way of making people walk away from this hobby.

Agree with you Craig. Group C for Enduro. To me and I know I haven't raced yet at the nationals but some classes need changing. Group 5 has come on strong and I think it deserves a spot in the nationals. Heck I may even enter if there is substantial changes.
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#13 kennedyrd

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 08:40 PM

Craig please read very carefully what I wrote, those "competitor or intending competitor". As you have just raced at the National Enduro two days ago (and last year) and you are in a position to enter the Nats, especially geographically, I can't see why you think you can't comment? I was really referring to the potential thousands of comments by people who use Auslot who have no intention of competing or are possibly not even in NZ.(though overseas competitors would be most welcome!!!)

The comments you all make are very valid, and carry as much weight as mine on this thread!

That was the purpose of it!

Edited by kennedyrd, 18 August 2014 - 09:12 PM.


#14 kennedyrd

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 06:59 AM

If it is any help, on the NPSR Napier track N22's work as well as F22's for Gp C

#15 nvmyre

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 07:07 AM

I encourage everyone to use N22s, it certainly helps those of us on F22s
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#16 nvmyre

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 07:13 AM

View PostSmithy, on 18 August 2014 - 07:50 PM, said:

I know I haven't raced yet at the nationals but some classes need changing.

View PostSmithy, on 18 August 2014 - 07:50 PM, said:

Heck I may even enter if there is substantial changes.

Can you clarify these statements. They imply that there is something substantially wrong with the current structure of the Nationals.

Edited by nvmyre, 19 August 2014 - 07:18 AM.

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#17 Smithy

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 08:20 AM

All I'm saying is that the existing classes should be addressed and if there are exciting classes that deserve to be part of the nationals then so be it.Every year its the same classes. Starting to get moldy. There are classes that should stay but I think every year the classes should be evaluated.

Ninco Classics. Good to see there is finally traction with change. I think the word Ninco limits what can be raced. And this brand is pretty expensive. I hear all the time that specs are limited due to the cost of putting a car together for racing but to buy a Ninco classic is quite costly in its own right. Pre 65 is what we race at the club and its restricted to 16k motors and any brand. So why not open this class up a little.

Is there room for Group 5? I guess the committee will discuss

Muscle class. Can the muscle car be expanded to world wide and not just American?

NASCAR........Change to Aussie V8's? Every man and his dog have these especially Hawkes Bay and New Plymouth. Would be fun


Another for me Chris is the entry fee. I know its required for trophy's etc etc but could you not look at entry fee by class maybe. Just a thought here.

Edited by Smithy, 19 August 2014 - 08:25 AM.

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#18 branco

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 09:40 AM

If its ok I might chime in with my thoughts.
I entered the Nats in 2013 and thoroughly enjoyed the experience, meeting you guys for the 1st time was excellent and as a newbie to the hobby I learned a lot about car set up.
Unfortunately attendance was down, maybe 12 I think, and this year only 8. This should be the main topic to address.
Each club in the country runs to their own agenda, ie. class rules, controller set ups and so forth. This will never change but it can be worked through.

I like that the Nats will start to alternate around the country, hopefully someone in the South Island will put their hand up to host.
The cost for me personally to attend the Nats in the North Island is around $1,200, I know, outrageous isn't it. $500 for cars and $700 travel/accommodation. Chuck in a few visits to Burger King and i'm broke!!

Car classes;
Maybe drop from 5 to 3. Would lower initial costs. Increase race time, round robin or whatever. To me its about racing and not how many toys I die with.
Ninco Classics and Nascar provide close racing but can be hard to find at a decent price.
Group C are excellent as they don't need anything added to them except some well sorted tyres and time spent prepping. However these are used for the enduro so they have their time on the track.
American muscle is an okay class with plenty of work for the avid tuner, by all means open up to other like minded cars.
Gt, a good class but I would like to see a move to GT3 cars, again plenty of scope to be breathed on with a vast array available.
Group 5; the M1 seems to be the model of choice so could become a bit stale.

Tyres;
This is one hot topic no matter which club we race at. I see that the Aussie Nats are moving to sponge for most 1/32 rtr classes, interesting to see how that goes. What are our options with regard to tyre prep?
My tyre prep consists of trued and glued and then only cleaned with water before each race, others spend hours adding NSR tyre stuff or CRC2:26. My view here is if you want to go the extra mile to win, good on ya!!!.

Okay my brain is fryed now, might come back later with more than my 2 cents worth.

Thanks for reading.
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#19 kennedyrd

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 11:04 AM

Hi Branco. Numbers being down was a lot of my fault. I was out of slots so information dissemination was poor to non existent. Also we have found that Wellington is not a good venue for numbers as there are no RTR racers based there other than Paul B. Napier may be a lesser venue but to quote Gil Andrews, "better to harvest wood where there are trees".

It transforms for many $1200 to very little. However if there are enough keen enough Wellington is excellent. The enduro is very different as you only need show up with a controller

The other important factor is the Slotmadmac "pied piper" effect. If he goes he generously provides a ride, cars and cheap accommodation to many HB racers.

Ditto Craig Goodwin who not only supplies his mind blowing cars but is usually a racer. For very good reasons both fully intended to come but life got in the way. It was all I could do to attend.

A new policy of less than 15 entries 1 month prior will mean the event is cancelled.

Appreciate your input

Edited by kennedyrd, 19 August 2014 - 11:55 AM.


#20 SlotsNZ

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 01:40 PM

Lively discussion.

- Foams - One thing I've discussed with Chris, is running say a 4 hour Group C enduro at his track on foams before we drift into summer mode. We could rustle up 4 x Group C cars and run some kind of team or round robin "car on lane" driver event.
I figured 4 cars x 4 hours we'll have a pretty good idea on how handling goes - both initially and whether it changes over time as the Slot.it foams soak up the juice? It would also tell us if the extra drag caused by foam is going to overheat motors.

Mike Bowman from Taranaki team actually ran a bit of a short test by gluing up his own track recently. He said to me his concern was that the grip was pretty good - okay, really good - and the cars were lifting the nose out of the slot under acceleration.

Chris' track of course is pretty much the Wellington surface, and he knows how to prep and lay the glue the same like them.

- Classes. I have my preferences - and not - as a racer, not as a distributor. One concern I have is that the Ninco classics are on a bit of a hiding to nothing for their production future, and making a plastic wheeled car run sweet with making the required silicons nice and true, is difficult. So if we were to drop one class, that would be the one I would choose to lose.

Now Chris originally designed the classes to have a mix of speed, car sophistication, variety of type/model/age of car etc.
If we say dropped Ninco classics, do we want to replace it with NSR Classics which are closest to GT perhaps, or do we want something a bit slower. - But I am not sure what......

- As for number of classes - as many as we can fit into a weekend. Chris might remember best, with 5 classes and 25? odd drivers at his place once or twice, it was a pretty crammed full-on weekend.

What if we dropped those classics, and go all out for a good numbers turnout in 2015 with 4 classes.
So maybe we take a breath to grow driver numbers, and take another year before we choose to add a new class.

Thinking ahead - Then that 5th class could be added to Wellington 2016 where we also have more space - and perhaps more support in terms of entrant numbers for Wellington by then.

So let's think positively to the future and with hand on heart am just throwing out the above as an idea here.

I think the remit to create perpetual trophies was passed on mail vote, and I think part of that idea was to reduce costs - which will help a little for entrants.

For next year I'll be happy to billet at least a couple of the visiting drivers, and if we get our tails organised early to support Chris and the RTR subcommittee, we might be able to offer free accommodation to all traveling drivers.

Add to that something on the catering front, even just some B&E pies and a drinks station to keep food costs down, and we have a bit of a support package for the organisers and NZSCA committee guys to use as a selling tool in promoting the event.

Another thought, shared with a couple of the Wellington guys and with Chris, is to aim for maybe April when people are more settled into the year and start selling the idea of the nationals before Summer, seeding the Nationals event as widely as possible.

I am also going to be talking further with Tony Cook (NSR and NSR) [Nelson Slot Racers and NSR Slots] about us coordinating an RTR calendar so all national and regional events have a decent chance of attracting travelers from both sides of cook strait.
- Just avoiding clashes of close dates as we had this year.
I'd like to be able to compete at that invitational in Nelson next year....

Then all the regional events can shuffle as much as possible into the widest possible spaces between national ones.
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