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Do You Have A Spare Controller And What Is It?

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Well.. finances, and timing dictated my decision for a 2nd controller. Team mate Shane ( jazzbell ) bought himself a top of the range Carsteen so I bought his "old" ACD Pro5. The funny thing is, I like the pro 5 better at Birkdale but prefer the Difalco at Ecurie Elite. I Couldn't understand why but did a bench test (which was interesting) helped me understand the difference. The ACD controls the car by way of electric "pulses" (voltage limitation) whereas the Difalco contols the car by starving amps. The difference is the ACD on slow trigger setting literally switches on and off in quick succession to control the car speed... so, at a given slow trigger setting the car is regulated to an exact speed by the number of "pulses" per second. The Difalco by comparison on a slow setting, because it controls amps instead of volts means the car slowly speeds up... and just keeps getting faster because it requires less amps after start up.. Get it?

So..I think my take on this is... :blink: on a track where you really need a slow constant speed on a series of very tight radius turns the ACD works best because the cars speed is constant... but a track with tight entry and fast exits ( more like commercial tracks) really suit's the Difalco, especially if you're a bit slow on the trigger out of the turns because the car just builds up speed automatically as it draws less amps. Mind you.. if you, if you're a truly brilliant driver a Parma 15 amp will work just fine.. and you've saved a lot of money.

Or.. go and sell the 2nd family car, buy a Carsteen and you've got everything in one controller

Edited by axman

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Could you please explain how the difalco transistor controller " starves.amps". My understanding is that the transistor is turned on more as the wiper reduces the resistance to the base,thus turning on the transistor more increasing the output voltage of the transistor.

As the voltage increases the motor can then draw more current.

 

 

Maybe I am missing something here?

Edited by kalbfellp

Phil

 

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Hi Phil.. I thought that too and thats why the transistor. But it seems on the Difalco slower settings the car just keeps gradually building up momentum (to a point) where as the ACD the car get to a constant (slow) speed and does'nt increase. The scary thing with the ACD is it actually seems to get brush spark on the comm with the "on off, on off " pulses. I set it up driving a slave motor with load and was surprised the pulse rate... and sparking.

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Team mate Shane ( jazzbell ) bought himself a top of the range Carsteen so I bought his "old" ACD Pro5.

 

Actually it is the top of the range Kopriwa that he bought......and it's ADC not ACD.....just saying. Sorry Kim, my mistake you are right it is called ACD.

 

Jan

Edited by Springbok Racer

'The older I get the faster I was.'

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IMO the PWM works better simply because the motor is getting pulses of full voltage (IE nominal 12 volts), even at part throttle the motor is getting 12 vots, but pulsed. the difalco actually gives the motor a limited voltage depending on trigger position.

From what I remember the PWM should provide the motor with smoother starting and possible more torque.

Any transistor controller is like a resistor controller but provides a constant voltage output regardless of current draw.


Phil

 

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So... what is the more stable at a low trigger setting. And, because the PWM is more agressive is is making the motor run hotter with the sparking?

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NFI! I think a lot depends on motors and tracks. I do know that in industrial applications PWM does not work as well at very low speeds, but that is a totally different application wanting constant low speeds.

Interesting that Shane's new buy is a transistor style.Makes my home built look more of a bargain!

Edited by kalbfellp

Phil

 

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I also really like the Ruddock as used by Paul "Beuf" Pederson the best wingcar racer in the US.

 

I can use my Ruddock DR40 on everything from nsr/scalectrix, Scaleautos, , Flexis, etc to open group 7 cars due to it's very wide range of sensitivity.

 

Has the ball bearing trigger, 30 bands, diode brake pot etc.

 

I bought it due to it's reputation for reliability (virtually indestructable) and no mucking around with resistor boards etc

 

Uses common automotive fuses for proection (not that I've ever had to replace them ).

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Got myself another 'new' spare controller... A DS Electronic Pro Speed 3.

Previous owner mistook the R/V switch for a polarity switch and plugged it into a reverse polarity track...

A few mosfets, a lot of patience, and a couple burnt fingers later, and it's working again...

 

Again, no manual... :(

 

 

Also modded my N-Tronic to try to fix the 1.2v drop at full power... Removed the bridge rectifier, which has now made it posative polarity only.

Promptly blew it up during testing...

 

Turns out that the power mosfets were capable of a whole 2amps...

Replaced it with a slightly higher 60a mosfet, and now it works very well.

 

 

So, now I have 3x Pulse Width Modulation controllers...

Slot.It, DSE Pro Speed 3 and Ninco N-Tronic.

Interestingly, they all respond differently, and now, all give full power on full throttle...

 

Still need to get myself a standard professor motor controller for cars like the Revell Nascars with lots of advanced timing in the motor...

The PWM controllers seem to be just too violent in that scenario.

 

 

ps. Still after a manual for the Ninco N-Tronic, and now also the DSE Pro Speed 3.

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I also really like the Ruddock as used by Paul "Beuf" Pederson the best wingcar racer in the US.

 

I can use my Ruddock DR40 on everything from nsr/scalectrix, Scaleautos, , Flexis, etc to open group 7 cars due to it's very wide range of sensitivity.

 

Has the ball bearing trigger, 30 bands, diode brake pot etc.

 

I bought it due to it's reputation for reliability (virtually indestructable) and no mucking around with resistor boards etc

 

Uses common automotive fuses for proection (not that I've ever had to replace them ).

Willie, I have one of John Fuga's Circuit Masters and I have run everything from an AFX through to an open. The only problem was that the other guy had a standard AFX controller and mine just sucked the power out of the track causing him to get surging. Will never get rid of it while it can be repaired.

 

As to back up, old Parma Turbo is all I need.


Stu

 

Old racers race harder

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From what I remember the PWM should provide the motor with smoother starting and possible more torque.

 

This was my experience. With low powered motors it gave substantially more torque but required a lot more finesse with faster motors. When I changed to the ACD ( Kim was correct ) the pointer powered Mini-Z cars we where running at the time were able to wheel spin and drift when they couldn't previously.

 

I have similar observation to Kim about different controllers at different times, although I found it more reliant on the car and motor than the track. But running 2 controllers seemed a bit much so I went with the best all rounder.

 

The other thing which nobody has mentioned is the feel and weight of the controller. After comparing ACD and Difalco I found the Difalco was so heavy and stiff I might as well be at the Gym doing a few curls. The ACD feels lite and fresh in comparison.

 

Interesting reading about PWM anyway , thanks for the info.

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Paul, feel and weight are a personal thing. I like a heavy spring on the trigger where a majority don't. Some like a light controller as they only use one hand. I use two so weight doesn't matter to me. As I say, personal.


Stu

 

Old racers race harder

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I also use a John Fuga Circuit Master,, for a spare I have another one of John's actually another two!! great controllers .

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Oh man, after reading this I feel the 21st century is passing me by. I bought two Parma turbo controllers back in about 1978 and still use 'em. For the past 20 years I've raced every Friday night and the only thing that has broken was a trigger in one 3 weeks ago.

 

Suppose I should think about upgrading but there is always a new slot car released....

 

Chris.


Late Model

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Funny you mention it. Last night I went racing 1/32 plastics for the first time in quite a while. Started with the ACD, went to the Difalco , tried a couple of different chips , then spent the whole night wishing I had brought my 25ohm Parma ecconomy controller along.

 

Definitely horses for courses when it comes to controllers in the end.

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Not a fan of controllers with changeable chips, especially for sprint racing. Easy to forget to change them and then your stuck racing with wrong settings.

 

They add unnecessary complication in the heat of racing.

Edited by Camber

Hoo Roo

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Team mate Shane ( jazzbell ) bought himself a top of the range Carsteen so I bought his "old" ACD Pro5.

 

Actually it is the top of the range Kopriwa that he bought......and it's ADC not ACD.....just saying. Sorry Kim, my mistake you are right it is called ACD.

 

Jan

Thanks Jan.. the dyslexia just keeps kicking in... I'll try to control it. :unsure:

 

Kim,

 

Altered my earlier post....you were right mate, it is called an ACD!

 

Cheers,

 

Jan


'The older I get the faster I was.'

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Garry J posted something the other day on "electronic" controllers having a very small time delay when power goes off... that really relates to ANY controller that has a relay for brakes, power or both.. even the humble modified Parma. I've had a few Difalco owners pm me re the Difalco upsetting the computer and send them a diode fix. The reality is any Relay in a controller or the wiring of the track should have a "flyback" diode to protect computer circuitry.

I found a really good post on the www the other day.. its worth a look at. Just Google Douglas Krantz - Flyback Diode

Edited by axman

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I don't understand how the digital modern controllers work but I am told that you need to have one to be competitive. I have a home made digital controller and it was offered to me before I decided to get back into racing. prior to that, I just had a turbo parma with an eternal adjustable resistor. that was homemade as well.

 

im sure that modern digital controllers , no matter what brand or type, are better. I just don't know how or why.


Shed People Mutual Admiration Society

2 times Australian National Champion

1991-Flexicar 1999- Group 12 Sedan

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The modern controllers are "better" simply because they offer a lot more adjustments than the old Resistor controllers.

Your old Parma external needed to have the taps moved on the resistor to change the sensitivity,these days you simply turn a knob to alter the sensitivity and if you run out of range on some you can simply change the resistor bank.

Choke, sensitivity,"traction" starting point for power can all be adjusted with the turn of some knobs or the flick of a switch.

While some of these things could be added to resistor controllers the adjustments were usually limited.

As well electronic controllers will provide the same voltage output for a given amount of trigger movement regardless of the motor current draw.

I have been using "electronic" controllers probably before most on this Forum were even racing!

 

gallery_89_128_6122.jpg

 

This is my original "Electronic" controller from 1967. This one was very basic it took me a couple of races to find out that it had no full power contact, so was dropping some voltage on full power. I soon added a contact and used it for many years.

When I returned to racing in the late eighties I built a couple of Diode controllers and transistor controllers adding more adjustments with each version.

Now have a Mosfet version designed and under test.

IMO a better driver using a Parma will still win, But all the adjustments may help drivers gain a few extra tenths and also are great for us old guys who don't have the reactions of the young guns.

I have seen drivers buy adjustable controllers and then try and adjust them while racing and loosing the plot while trying to adjust them.

Do I really need one, probably not, BUT it does make it easier for me to drive some of the faster over powered cars on the shorted tracks.

I can choke the car,adjust the traction and start point so it make the car easier to drive when my reactions are getting slower these days. :D


Phil

 

Hobart Miniature Car Club

 

Tassie Resins

 

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Love it Phil.. that looks like an old Australian made "Horwood" controller. Probably one of the first of the "electronic" controllers ever made. When trigger fingers became the rage we used to screw those down on the track as rental controllers. They were pretty tough.

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Phil,

 

thanks for the explanation and WOW, that controller is 40 years ahead of its time. wonderful to see aussie ingenuity at its BEST.

 

john h


Shed People Mutual Admiration Society

2 times Australian National Champion

1991-Flexicar 1999- Group 12 Sedan

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Both right it is a Horwood used at a local track for rental controllers, I ended up with their two spares as they did not ever need them. Only problem they ever had was the wires pulling out of the microphone plug that they used.

I have not been able to find any earlier production electronic controllers.

 

gallery_89_128_23904.jpg

This is from an article published in Model Maker in 1963 so Pulsed width Controllers are not new.

Edited by kalbfellp

Phil

 

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