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Scale Auto Amendments Discussion For The 2014 Regulations.

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Hi everyone,

 

It is time for all of us to consider our rules for this class. This is the only time every year that we can make changes (if any) to our regulations for this class. In addition we can also add any new cars and or replacement parts that may have come along since our last discussion.

 

From talking to guys around the country it would seem that most are happy with things as they are, but we had agreed to go about the management of our regulations in this open fashion and therefore it is now up to everyone to help shape our national racing in 2014.

 

Your comments and wishes/endorsements are invited now before we tie up everything for 2014. Please remember that this discussion will close on the 31st of December 2013 and the agreed 2014 regulations will be published thereafter.

 

Cheers,

 

Jan


'The older I get the faster I was.'

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I would like to see chassis height and tyre Size discussed.

 

would like to see it dropped to 1mm before and 0.6 at completion to bring it inline with every other class in Aus/world.

 

I understand this rule was set to accommodate hand out tyres but we don't run hand out tyres at any events. Scale auto tyres need to be trued new out of the packet anyway for appropriate handling, ( I have had fronts that needed to be coated to bring them up to minimum size) Standard chassis height would make for better handling cars and make it easier for new comers to drive and setup a car. I would suggest a minimum front diam of 26 and rear diam of 26.5

 

I also think that the rear spur gear should be a nominated size for the track or event. Fixed gear ratio for endurance motor wont work everywhere.

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Guest jazzbell

Leave the class as is.

 

Why change what is so simple for all. Number of entries at events still show its our number 1 class in Australia.

 

As for the 1.8mm rule it has nothing to do with handout tires,its all about the local racer that has know idea on set up.They can buy a car put foamies on and off they go.

 

 

Regards shane a

 

Team thunderbird

Edited by jazzbell

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you still have the shim the chassis to get it to 1.8mm anyway, so just need to shim it lower. Every other model class runs 1mm so wouldn't that be simpler or are you saying the local racer doesn't race anything else other than scale auto?

 

As for just putting foamies on and off they go that's another discussion all together.

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I like the 1.8mm rule. It means no tyre issues when running enduros and you can use your old ScaleAuto tyres on other cars cause they still have plenty of rubber left when they're too small for ScaleAuto. A bit of planning across your racing stable can save you a heap.

 

BUT, for club racing I've always allowed customers to run their tyres down to the minimum over time. It makes the racing more affordable and breaks up the results because some drivers will be running high and some low at different times. Of course this requires some effort from the organiser to monitor everyone's tyre wear so no one is running low all the time, once a driver is down to the minimum they must be at legal clearance for the next race, and so on.

 

As for the gear ratio I haven't noticed any problems. Between the NSR and the ScaleAuto motor it would be hard to find a track one of them didn't suit.

 

And finally I've never been in favour of changing a class just to make it faster. We have enough problems with too many classes of near identical performance now.

.


Cheers,

 

Garry J

 

Slotworx_Logo_Small.jpg

 

Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill

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My thinking behind lowering them and adjusting gear ratio wasn't to make them faster but actually make them easier to tune, which is inline with this being a beginer class. I see a lot of people struggle with setup of these car which would be fixed with a lower chassis height. The higher chassis height (almost double) excentuates any handling issues.

 

As far a using 13mm wide tyres on other cars the only other class that uses those are lmps everything else uses 16mm ( so I throw them away ). As the tyres get smaller roll out changes and the cars run slower anyway, so with fixed gearing to be competitive you have to keep putting new tyres on all the time. At a recent discussion at jans there were only two of us that wanted to run 13mm tyres in another class.

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Adding more variables does not make tuning easier and I don't see how a badly setup car is going to improve against the competition when everyone runs lower. At the King Willys race there were a few badly setup cars but ride height was the least of their problems.


Cheers,

 

Garry J

 

Slotworx_Logo_Small.jpg

 

Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill

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And finally I've never been in favour of changing a class just to make it faster. We have enough problems with too many classes of near identical performance now.

 

I think Garry has hit the nail on the head in that there is no doubt that the cars will become faster once you lower them.

5.9s on Jans track will just be too fast. I only state this track as it is my home track but they will be a lot faster every where they are raced. As stated elsewhere it is pretty hard to argue with the numbers that turn out to race this class on a national level to the current rule set and its the youngest class as well.

 

Noel

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I would like to see the motors limited to the SA Enduro as per the current RTR cars on sale.

All other specs as 2013

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Funnily enough even though I am constantly bemoaning how slow most 24th scale class racing is, I would be against changing the rules in this circumstance. 1.8mm means that the clearance is much closer to standard than 1mm. to get 1mm you need to shim the rear a fair way or grind the tyres and also flip the guide and perhaps shim the fronts or grind the fronts to and for what? The cars have plenty of punch and the fact that they sit a bit higher makes them more fun to drive. At least they are alive. Making 1mm standard across all classes sounds good in theory but in practice it just makes people grumpy.

 

I have seen numbers drop away at club level with NSR 32nd scale cars where guys buy a car and then have to make changes to front wheels and guide spacers just to make the scrutineer happy. Some classes are best left alone and this is one of them. 1.8mm clearance and a fixed minimum bodyweight and you are good to go. Even a numpty can work it out. The beauty and popularity of these cars is their simplicity. Don't fix what ain't broke.

Edited by first corner crash

4x national champion 6x national runner up. I come second most often but my girlfriends happy.

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I wasn't saying the cars need to go faster or saying there is anything wrong with the class, I think they should actually be slower than they are becoming which is why I suggested a discussion on spur gear, they should have more acceleration and less top end speed.

 

at 1.8mm they are tricky to tune as the fast guys get faster the gap across the field will get larger and put off some people. Obviously I see it different which is fine, interested to see other peoples input.

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trevor I agree with what you say, problem is the endurance motor that they come with now has lost that punch. The new chassis come with the guide tongue on top of the chassis anyway so its not as easy jus buying a chassis out the box and running it. I love this class, prob one of my favourite so definatly don't want to break it

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I wasn't saying the cars need to go faster or saying there is anything wrong with the class, I think they should actually be slower than they are becoming which is why I suggested a discussion on spur gear, they should have more acceleration and less top end speed.

 

at 1.8mm they are tricky to tune as the fast guys get faster the gap across the field will get larger and put off some people. Obviously I see it different which is fine, interested to see other peoples input.

 

One thing I have learned from racing is the fast guys will be fast and the slow guys will be slow regardless of what rules you make. The only time there is close racing is when the cars are underpowered and way too easy to drive. Anyone who tells you they have consistently close racing even with new comers you know they drive underpowered easy to drive cars or what's known as beer and pizza racers. ie non competitive people.

 

I was the worst slot car racer in the known universe when i started and my username reflects this.

 

(some say i still am but only those on the outside of a corner :lol: )

 

I only got better through sheer determination and making an effort to learn. Any hobby that you are good from the get go isn't worth pursuing.

 

What you are proposing makes tuning the cars actually harder for a newcomer not easier. Learning to drive consistently fast takes a bit of time.

Edited by first corner crash

4x national champion 6x national runner up. I come second most often but my girlfriends happy.

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I need a better clarification on the front tyre rule.

Front wheels must be either the standard hard rubber wheels with rims as supplied with the RTR cars or a minimum diameter of 26.5mm when using the RTR Scale Auto SC-2715P (26.5mm OD, 8mm wide) racing wheels.

As I read it, the front tyres must be 26.5mm in diameter,If SC-2715P front tyres are trued in the blueprinting process & end up under 26.5mm they will be deemed illegal & there fore if this is the case this is an Irish rule & needs to be made more usable,I'm Scottish & front wheels should last the life of the car,my home track {Woodlands Raceway}is Ferradore & very abrasive on front tyres as well as rear tyres so personally I need more room in the specs to practice with.

At the last Hornsby 8 hour enduro our car failed tech,we had 1.8mm ground clearance{no gripes there} but we ground the front tyres to achieve this believing the 1.8mm ground clearance was the main diamention & the 26.5mm OD of the fronts was just a guide combined with the part #. I have no problem with the 1.8mm ground clearance but the minimum outside diameter of the front wheels needs to be give more room for practice & natural wear to negate having to buy new fronts every time we race a Scaleauto enduro or an MCN event.

Cheers Jimmy :D


To finsh first,first you gotta finish

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I would also like to see this particular rule amended. I see a little bit of irony (and confusion in our case last year) in being allowed to grind down the rear tyres and not the fronts. So long as the 1.8mm ground clearance is met, I don't see an issue with being able to get more life out of the front tyres. At 1.8mm and no front spacers, the scale appearance of the front wheels is not compromised.

 

The effort gone into formulating these rules has proven itself and are on the money IMO.

 

- Cam


Hoo Roo

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Scale Auto makes a 21mm rim with 27.5 x 8 tyre, this could be used to allow you to go down to a Min spec of 26.5mm...............this change I could live with as it wont alter the rest of my car ;)


Paul NZ - Scale with Detail!

 

Narangba Club Local

 

Gold Coast Raceway 09

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I love the stability of Scaleauto rules and think ground clearance of 1.8mm is just right for this class ...

However there is some merit in what Cam and Jimmy raise regards front wheel size.

My thoughts are as long as 1.8 mm is maintained with no chassis modifications the front wheels should have the same interpretation as the rear wheel rule.

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Jasons quote - "I wasn't saying the cars need to go faster or saying there is anything wrong with the class, I think they should actually be slower than they are becoming which is why I suggested a discussion on spur gear, they should have more acceleration and less top end speed."

 

Axman - The stock 12t gearing on the Enduro is fine Jason... A tall gear ratio smooths out the car and helps with handling deficiencies. Also makes it an easier drive for the newbies and gives a challenge to the "pro's" to setup the car for fast entry and exit speed to achieve maximun momentum.

 

The challenge of driving these things with 1.8 clearance is the key to not getting bored, keeps it fun and you dont have to buy experimental bits in the hope of going faster.

Edited by axman

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I would actually propose a larger spur gear ( not pinion change) to lower the top speed but give them more acceleration, especially somewhere like Jans track.

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It ain't broke. Don't fix it!

 

(That said, I don't disregard the very well informed and constructive comments posted in this thread. There are some very good arguments. Ultimately, though, I very firmly believe that we are on a winning formula. Let's not run the risk of losing out by tinkering with it.)


13 times world wanking champion. Not proud of it.

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I love the minimum body weight rule, other classes could benefit from a similar rule. But it doesn't seem to match the overall weight minimum weight. I have a porsche body that weight 47 grams, which currently gives me an overall weight of 188 grams. By the time I get the body weight up to 55, my overall weight will be 6 grams over. I thinks these weights and measures should be reviewed.

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It ain't broke. Don't fix it!

 

(That said, I don't disregard the very well informed and constructive comments posted in this thread. There are some very good arguments. Ultimately, though, I very firmly believe that we are on a winning formula. Let's not run the risk of losing out by tinkering with it.)

 

class definatly aint broke I agree, but we found recently when we did a scrutineering session on all the cars at club level most were outside the rules. Some of this was due to people not reading/understanding the rules but also from the rules being very different from all our other classes and people not understanding how to make the cars fit the rules and still handle ok. have seen several of the guys give up and just run smaller wheels and lower the chassis height and run bodies under weight.

Edited by jasonk1970

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It ain't broke. Don't fix it!

 

(That said, I don't disregard the very well informed and constructive comments posted in this thread. There are some very good arguments. Ultimately, though, I very firmly believe that we are on a winning formula. Let's not run the risk of losing out by tinkering with it.)

 

class definatly aint broke I agree, but we found recently when we did a scrutineering session on all the cars at club level most were outside the rules. Some of this was due to people not reading/understanding the rules but also from the rules being very different from all our other classes and people not understanding how to make the cars fit the rules and still handle ok. have seen several of the guys give up and just run smaller wheels and lower the chassis height and run bodies under weight.

 

I'm not sure what the problem is having to comply to a a rule set for a specific class.To state the obvious every class of slot car we race in South East QLD has a different rule set the only common rule is the 1 mm ride height for those classes.

I don't think the current regs for the SA hinders it at club level nor national level, I think what may have hindered it at at club level was the racers ignorance to the rules not the rules themselves.

There has been on going disagreements about other classes that we race on a national level and I for one disagree on the rule but its the rules end of story and if I want to race this class I must comply to be competitive.

 

Noel

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Having built some 15 or so Scale Autos I have never had to add weight to a body other than a Porsche I'm not saying that a few may need it perhaps they do. the racers may not have added all of the required plastic parts if they were building white kits as per the RULES... I also bet that if you go to other tracks on a friendly club racing night that a lot of the cars would not comply to their rule set which is fine for our club nights. Personally I always run a car that is legal what ever the requirements may be as this is the only way to develop your car to run at the pointy end especially at a national level.

 

Noel

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