Old Scalextric 13Uo Motors - There Stock Rpm

[BMR]

Hi all , I've been searching the web to try and find out what the old scaley motors maximum revs may have been ( 1970s ) The motors were used in all the scaley cars back then , call them 13uo , Johnson 111 whatever ya like I just need to find out how hard they revved in stock form . to see if the motor will qualify in a 16k motor class

 

Picture of the motor here , tried to contact these guys on this site bit no answer yet

http://www.scalextric-car.co.uk/Catalogue/Motor_Types/Johnson_Motor/Johnson_Motor.htm

 

Cheers for any info

Steve

[kalbfellp]

Steve the 13UO is a differt beast, I still have a couple of New Old Stock here! I also should have some Scalex Johnson's so can test one for you later this week.

[BMR]

Cheers Phil , I did think to save time and PM you before posting on the forum , then thought others may be interested to know what those oldies did in the rpm stakes

[axman]

HI BMR, it just so happens I have an original Mabuchi FT 13UO still in its box.. Dont know if these were used in Scalextric but were common in Monogram 1/32 scale Fi cars and the midget racer from the 60's. The one I have lists 32,000 rpm and starting Torque of 50g-cm (whatever that means). These had the same size armature as the old 16D's but in a much smaller case with very small magnets. All the one's I've ever seen have a can drive for the pinion.

So... Lotsa revs.. would probably throw your old scalextric on the floor.. :-)

Edited July 3, 2013 by axman

[BMR]

Looking further its the johnson 111 motor that seems to be the motor I need the specs for , see the link on the first post - when I had a look easrlier tonight around the various websites there are people calling the johnson111 a 13uo and visa versa ?

 

13uo motors do seem to crop up a lot as high rpm motors but mostly the sites are talking about modifying them to do that . Imnot really into the old stuff , never been too fussed , plus never really cared for modifying motors anyway , dont paticularly go for the idea myself as it usually leeds to people leaving the racing venue / club to those few that can ( and do ) modify motors to win . history shows from there that it usually ends up with a club down to 3 members and no marshals - then no club ?

 

Anyway 32000 rpm is way above what the little motor I have in my ancient scaley mini - if sound is anything to go on its lucky to be half that 32k - but its hard to tell over all the gear noise and axle rattle

[kalbfellp]

I checked a couple of motors free reving at 12v.

13uo 26,000 RPM

the 3 Scalex Johnsons I tested were all around 22,000.

[Rhythm Willie]

A bit off topic, but may be of interest to some people. I actually had a Japanese formula one kit car in the 60's (don't ask how old I am), that had a 13UO.

 

Interesting, in the early 80's I used 13UO cans to try the first "rare earth" plastic magnets in 1/24th wing car racing at the time as you only needed magnets a fraction of the size of a ceramic magnet, so a lot of early developers picked the smallest and lightest can available.

 

I use my guitar tuner to test revs (have a conversion program) , but only up to 3 - 4v. An open wing car motor revs many times as much as say a NSR Evo 25k motor at 3v, but also pulls over 10 times the amperage at that voltage and has a massive amount of torque in comparison. Using only revs is not a great way to test motor performance on the track.

 

I would advise to not run free revving motors at too high a voltage however, it can get them severely out of balance etc. They rev a lot lower on the track under load.

 

When running in high performance motors on a power supply I generally start at about 1 volt and gradually increase over 45 minutes to a max of 3v.

[slotbaker]

Also a bit off topic, and I haven't tried this, but have read on a couple of forums that the magnets out of JK Falcon (and similar motors) also fit the 13UO which gives them a bit more punch.

[kalbfellp]

JK Falcon (and similar motors)

 

Yes!

Edited July 5, 2013 by kalbfellp

[slot car tragic]

In that class you are talking about Steve, why not try a suck it and see approach? You wont know 'till you try and then see how they compare.

 

I'm wondering if those Johnson 111 motors may rev a bit harder but don't have the brakes like modern motors and when they run hot the braking really starts to wilt.

 

Chris.

[BMR]

Had John at FPR ( Fulham Park Raceway ) drop a couple of minis on his Tamiya dyno - crude guess running with a white mark on the wheels with a strobe light the wheels came up at 7000-7200 so with 3:1 gearing the motors were 21000 or so as a ball park , no way to test for torque but it aint much , they motivate the early minis ok with no ballast weight but 21k rpm is beyond what the up coming race class is limited at - so it seems the question may be answered .

 

Next question - ideas have been put forward to limit the motors via resistors - Im not electrical wiz so any ideas on that front are appreciated

[kalbfellp]

Don't use resistors, use Diodes. Each diode will drop the voltage around 0.7 volts. So you will need to do some testing.,

[axman]

Dont understand "the test". On the manufacturers packet the 13UO is 32000 rpm... Thats free revving... Which is a lot different than measuring the reduced revs that would happen by loading the motor with rotational mass and vibration caused by wheels, tyres, axle and 3:1 gear friction. Or is this a general test how you check cars on club night?

[BMR]

Hi all , left this thread for a bit and forgot to reply . re the johnson - a test on the tamiya kph gadget which isnt exactly up to NASA standards showed the johnson di do about 30,000rpm , on the track the thing had basically no torque which would back up what Axeman said earlier in the thread ( 50gcm )

 

Early Johnson was all revs but no go , even in an early scalextric mini which isnt exactly a heavy car it performed dismally on my track getting left behind by cars with more modern motors that are rated at 12 - 14 k / guessing about 100gcm .

 

The old gold scalextric johnson didnt wind up any speed at the end of the 6 metre straight to impress either - tested a few of them so it wasnt just one dud . Hey they are what they are , its safe to say at the recent race at my place where we let the johnson run with all the other cars ( that were rpm limited to 16k ) The johnson was a reliable last place in every race .

 

A normal run of the mill Scalextric 18k mabuchi on 10v will dust the stock johnson on 14v , yes the Johnson can be hotted up to go , but thats a whole different kettle of fish isnt it .

[SlotsNZ]

My feeling when we were buying a lot of old Scaley F1 cars to set up our class, was exactly the same - I measured them in the low 20Ks rpm, but very low torque, and we definitely found they weren't as fast around a track. We had cars with those and modern mabuchi, so Mac and Mike settled on mabuchi for our class, giving us all a pile of spare Johnsons.

 

They could be geared way down, to make them feel more like a modern mabuchi motor, but they aren't as fast.

 

For economical racing of retro cars, I think they'd be just fine against say BWA motors of both shapes, old NC-1 etc. -certainly not an advantage.

 

I notice the brit clubs who are getting into racing the retro F1s are mostly using them, and a club in Wellington is setting up F1s using them as well.

I've just offered mine to the Wellie guys who need to take Mabuchis OUT of some of theirs.