Jump to content
wwwace

It Is On Again In 2013...........

Recommended Posts

Kim, I've thought about doing that, the programming isn't difficult but if you follow it through, logically I don't think it works. For example, 2 cars may be 6 inches apart and one gets an extra lap because they're just over the lap counter when the bracket time expires, what happens then? Work out averages and add/deduct laps accordingly? It's a nightmare and no better than the current situation.

 

I think the best solution to the roll out problem is to wire the track so that full brakes are applied when the power cuts. Cam got so much roll (the length of the straight and around the next corner) in the F1 semi his first lap after the lane change was a 5.14, that's almost 0.3 seconds faster than the top qualifier and when you factor in the overrun on the timer at the end of the previous bracket it's a ridiculous time. If all cars are under full brakes when the power cuts there may be some differences in braking efficiency but it would be minor, and with the close racing we're getting at these events, much fairer.

 

As for drivers moving cars forward in lane changes, as I explained to Jason, the race director can't watch everything so it's up to the drivers and marshals to police each other on this. My own thoughts are that if you can't put the car back where it stopped then you should move it backwards, not forwards, but there is no rule in place. I imagine drivers would then find a way to put their car back under the bridge where it stopped rather than move it backwards.

 

Wing car racers generally use a card to mark their cars position on the track during lane changes, because the cars are taken to the pits at every lane change it's easy to forget where it stopped. They also move cars backwards, not forwards, to avoid starting close to glue zones quite regularly.


Cheers,

 

Garry J

 

Slotworx_Logo_Small.jpg

 

Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good point about the rollout situation Jason. Scale cars can roll the length of the main straight and it certainly can change your race position.

I wonder if Garry's system could have a bell lap for every bracket... That way there is no "fudging" of track position, no problems with roll out and all cars then go back to the start line for each bracket. Certainly makes for action packed starts. ( probably a programming nightmare adding up all the bell laps! )

 

Kim,

 

The roll out is all about momentum and that is always going to happen. To reduce that roll out is in the track wiring also.Gary could explain better.

 

Sounds like to me if the rollout would have gone the other way we wouldn't be even talking about this. First time I've heard it called dirty tactics and don't play fair.

 

Regards shane a

 

Team thunderbird

 

there were two instances at dapto where this was an issue with roll on.

 

first instance was a heat race that have a lot of track calls which meant cars in that heat received an advantage by extra meterage each time the power was turned off. as kim points out throw in 5 or 6 track calls and you can easily gain a lap which in scale racing can mean the difference between 1st and 5th as shown in several results last weekend

 

Second issue is the problem with a long break out lap there is no way of checking if someone has advanced their car in the lane change. on a commercial track the cars stop straight away (stronger magnets) so anyone advancing their car in a lane change will be found out straight away.

 

Edited by jasonk1970

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shane, when a race is won (and lost) by 0.231 seconds there are bound to be a lot of "what ifs".

 

Watching the race I thought Cam's win was genuine and with everyone getting different rolls depending where they were on the track when the power was cut, who knows what could have happened.


Cheers,

 

Garry J

 

Slotworx_Logo_Small.jpg

 

Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jason, when the power cuts on my system it keeps counting for 1 second to catch any cars that roll over the lap counter. The time is then adjusted back at the restart by an amount I'd rather no specify but you do lose time off the clock at each track call. I've tried to adjust it to negate any possible advantage either way and it's impossible to get it perfect but suffice to say that, on average, there is no advantage to having lots of tracks or none.

 

Last weekend there were very few track calls.

 

Here's some useless information for your consideration - at the 24th scale Nats held each Easter all races are by move up with drivers being evenly distributed through consis, quarter finals and semis after qualifying. ie. the fast drivers don't all get to race together. Move ups are by position and you only race the people in your race, usually top 4 move up to the next level. This is a fairer system but it means more races which means more time taken and less classes run. The advantages of the APC system are more classes being run and drivers only race others of similar ability which means they can finish 10th overall but still feel good because they won their heat. Personally, I feel that winning your heat but finishing 10th would suck big time.

Edited by Garry J

Cheers,

 

Garry J

 

Slotworx_Logo_Small.jpg

 

Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i think the best solution is brakes on at the end of the bracket and set the breakout to be .2 - .3 of the quickest lap time.

 

i would like less classes more racing, but i know the majority of scale drivers like building and racing lots of classes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest jazzbell

Sorry I wasn't there and would have loved to been,sorry to say don't kill the event that was with all this now.

 

Drop it.

 

Regards shane a

 

team thunderbird

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

what ultimately meant the biggest difference in the f1 final was my car being sent cartwheeling down the front straight from a dead car being put on a corner costing me close to a lap in the first bracket, but thats the luck of racing.

Edited by jasonk1970

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Guys

Just like to clear up a few points & put this subject to bed before it destroys all the good work alot of people have put in to make the APC such a great event.

Firstly our local rule is if a car stops under the Donut at the end of a bracket,we always replace it at the exit of the donut where everyone can see it,Greg was only doing what he thought was right.

Secondly we all hold our triggers on when the power goes off to get the maximum coast.

Cam's luck or bad luck was the power went off just before he went over the lap counter with his car almost flatout & as we all do kept his finger on the trigger to get maximum coast.

When he explained to Gary what had happened his car was moved back to the other end of the track to negate any advantage he got from the coast a distance of about 13 metres.

But guess what guys the 5 other cars on the track got an advantage of their coast when the track tripped out on the short lap

So guys,just like the cricket hot spot debarkle,slot car racing is not perfect, that was the first time we have used the lap counter on the main straight & the short lap was set too high, my fault not Gary's

As I said before Cam was the unlucky one,it could have been any of us.

Cheers Jimmy :D


To finsh first,first you gotta finish

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

would have been nice to know that a local practice that contravenes the rules at a national event was ok, especially on a track that was very difficult to pass on. All the interstaters moved their cars back or started blind on the donut.

 

With the roll issue i have made my suggestion to try and take luck out of it and i will leave it at that. Short lap is set to catch cars riding on another lane and people advancing cars at lane change and obviously this is an issue we should try and address

Edited by jasonk1970

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jim and everyone,

 

I don't think there's anything been said here that detracts from the event, just some explanations of why things were done as they were, and/or happened as they did, and suggestions on how to make it better.

 

Apart from Jason being his usual pain in the butt, I don't see a problem :D.


Cheers,

 

Garry J

 

Slotworx_Logo_Small.jpg

 

Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good one Chris

 

It started to come together by Sunday but by lunch time Saturday I was scratching my head . I new I was on trouble when I couldn't keep my coco pops down in the morning and I thought " what ,you mean we have to race too" .

In 1/32 after being bumped off a few times I finally started to make my way back when Troy did a Kamakaze on me .

Mini Z had potential and I got off to a cracker of a start only to be taken out on the first lap by my young padiwan Jason , who for some reason decided to watch my car instead of his and smashed me into next week . By the time I got put back onto the track I was a lap and a half down and just couldn't pull it back in this company .

And then there was the curse of the P68 in Historics . Never finished a race in real life and didn't this time either . I didn't check my body screws before the race and the right side was loose after scrutineering . With the body saging the rear wheel snagged the interior and folded it around the tyre . DNF after 1 bracket . By this time I felt like having a cry and called my wife for a little cuddle .

 

Lucky for me though the day turned around when Werner decided to auction off his lovely formular le mans cars . Prices were going cheaper than I thought they were worth so I had a couple of bids and come up trumps .

 

As we were leaving on Saturday night Jason looked at me and said "somethings missing Paul , you don't have a Hawaiian shirt on ,you've lost your mojo"

From then on every thing went a little smoother . Go the hawaiian shirt .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the bottom line here is events like the APC gives us all a target to work towards and are a highlight of the racing calendar. Its great to see new faces to the podium, story's of defeat and humiliation and best of all make us think about what we're going to do better next time.

Despite a home track advantage to NSW the Queensland guys did very well and picked up some valuable race craft for the next event at Dapto. Last year the Texan was the dominant driver on a neutral track, this year, as expected, it was Cam and Jimmy on their home track. Would be good to go back to Dapto for the MCN and put some of this experiance to good use. I might even come out hibernation and have a go myself this time...

Edited by axman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if motor testing is implemented and adjustments are done the computer system I will be there as well, might even get the odd plastic car going so have a go at more than the APC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...