Scale Auto Racing In 2013

[billj]

Jan.

 

yes i agree with the rules shane has written for 2013, they are simple, they do not bend to far from the original car, they worked great at thunderbirds 8hr,except we did not run guide tongue on top or bottom.

 

 

bill

[Springbok Racer]

My thoughts for the rules for 2013.

 

My reason for this is know matter the rule change the out come of any rule change will be based on 2 Queensland tracks the running of these cars run at.

 

regards shane a

 

 

Hi Shane,

 

I'm not sure I understand the meaning of your comment?

 

The parity testing that I have been involved in has not provided the rules as they are now in 2012, from testing on only two tracks. The 2012 rules were the result of the combined input from Scale Auto racers around the world and as they found them to work in 2011.

 

Now that we have pretty much decided to check again what everyone think - being a lot more racers around the world. We are asking for local input beyond just a few of us. Nick De Wachter (Holland/Germany) Mark Campbell (Canada) and myself have been doing the same sort of information gathering and we will continue to propose rules that are what we think - representative of racers perception for car parity.

 

With the benefit of hindsight, after the 2012 'Worlds' in Trier where the rules as used would normally have provided us with the 2013 rules. It became rather obvious that those rules will not have a wider acceptance and sit well with the general racer. Hence the current process as we have it now, asking for input. You will remember, that we had locally suggested some of the rule changes for the 2012 'Worlds'. Whilst some of our suggestions were incorporated the other countries also made some contribution. In a way, we, here in Aussie will again be the test babies for 2013 and what we end up with, will play it's part in what is run at the 2013 'Worlds'.

 

The KISS principal as suggested by Kim and pretty much echo'ed by yourself is being suggested by Mark and Nick too.......so we are on the same wavelength with these guys.

 

Keep on giving us input, test your options and suggestions, on your tracks and let us know how you go.

 

JUST REMEMBER, WE WANT ALL THE DIFFERENT CARS TO BE ON THE GRID, NOT JUST ONE BODY STYLE.

 

Cheers,

 

JanR

[Richo99]

Why can't the Carbon wing be used. It is no lighter, and the standards break quite easily. Is the carbon wing a Scale Auto Part????. A new wing would look better than a repaired broken one ???.

 

I have a busted Merc wing now, as does my son. I don't want to have to purchase a new car because the wing is broken. If there is no performance advantage, I don't understand why we can't use them.

 

Pete

[Cleveland]

2013 and beyond.....................

 

Jan,

I appreciate your time and passion to this class, to see it through that we have a parity set so ALL models will be competitve.

 

These are just some of my thoughts........

 

I support the CF wing to be used in local racing,But it must be painted. That would also bring up its weight, so there wouldnt be an advantage .To be fair to everyone the only car inwhich you can buy a replacemant wing is the BMW, otherwise you have to buy the entire body kit. With this class going gangbusters with popularity here in Australia, we are going to see more & more events for this class inwhich there is even more chances for wings to break. Lets help keep the cost down by using the cheaper alternative. Plus you get the rubber mount kit...........

 

I like Jazzbells idea regarding the lexan glass & interior to all makes. Maybe this idea could be looked at closer for parity, as its a great idea. The Porsche has since grown a set, and is now competitive. It was the only model NOT to have the lexan interior. THe rest all seem to be on par.

 

Iets keep the old rule where's the Merc has both lexan glass & interior. At this years Nats the final was split with three Jags & Three Merc's. I cant see the Merc being quicker than the rest. If we introduce that the original glass has to be put back in, how many of the drivers actually kept the original, As the rules said it wasnt needed. Just means everyone has to buy a whole body kit as its not available as a spare.

 

THe motor is a real issue.One thing worth considering is Scaleauto parts are at times hard to come by in Australia. Maybe the NSR replacemet isnt a bad thing as NSR is more readily available and in greater numbers in stock.

 

 

Just my 2c

 

Clevo

[wwwace]

2013 and beyond.....................

 

.........To be fair to everyone the only car inwhich you can buy a replacemant wing is the BMW, otherwise you have to buy the entire body kit...............

 

Just my 2c

 

Clevo

 

This is incorrect as there are replacement wing sets available for all bodies except the Audi R8 LMS, but this one will be out soon as well.

You also can get the aftermarket wing sets for the 1/32 Mercedes SLS.

 

Cheers

Werner

[Cleveland]

2013 and beyond.....................

 

.........To be fair to everyone the only car inwhich you can buy a replacemant wing is the BMW, otherwise you have to buy the entire body kit...............

 

Just my 2c

 

Clevo

 

This is incorrect as there are replacement wing sets available for all bodies except the Audi R8 LMS, but this one will be out soon as well.

You also can get the aftermarket wing sets for the 1/32 Mercedes SLS.

 

Cheers

Werner

 

Thats fantastic news to hear Werner, my bad.

 

But where are these for sale?.......... I even looked on your site and you only advertize the BMW rear wing, its the same thing with Pendles they only have the BMW rear wing aswell. Could you please advise where these are in stock

 

Clevo

[wwwace]

But where are these for sale?.......... I even looked on your site and you only advertize the BMW rear wing, its the same thing with Pendles they only have the BMW rear wing aswell. Could you please advise where these are in stock

 

Clevo

 

Clevo mate.......these are all in our online shop. Please take another look.

 

Cheers

Werner

[Springbok Racer]

2013 and beyond.....................

 

.........To be fair to everyone the only car inwhich you can buy a replacemant wing is the BMW, otherwise you have to buy the entire body kit...............

 

Just my 2c

 

Clevo

 

This is incorrect as there are replacement wing sets available for all bodies except the Audi R8 LMS, but this one will be out soon as well.

You also can get the aftermarket wing sets for the 1/32 Mercedes SLS.

 

Cheers

Werner

2013 and beyond.....................

 

.........To be fair to everyone the only car inwhich you can buy a replacemant wing is the BMW, otherwise you have to buy the entire body kit...............

 

Just my 2c

 

Clevo

 

This is incorrect as there are replacement wing sets available for all bodies except the Audi R8 LMS, but this one will be out soon as well.

You also can get the aftermarket wing sets for the 1/32 Mercedes SLS.

 

Cheers

Werner

 

Thats fantastic news to hear Werner, my bad.

 

But where are these for sale?.......... I even looked on your site and you only advertize the BMW rear wing, its the same thing with Pendles they only have the BMW rear wing aswell. Could you please advise where these are in stock

 

Clevo

But where are these for sale?.......... I even looked on your site and you only advertize the BMW rear wing, its the same thing with Pendles they only have the BMW rear wing aswell. Could you please advise where these are in stock

 

Clevo

 

Clevo mate.......these are all in our online shop. Please take another look.

 

Cheers

Werner

 

Hi guys,

 

I think you are having a small misunderstanding regarding the spare wing availability for these cars.

 

Clevo, you are right, the only STANDARD replacement wing that is currently available is for the BMW (part of the plastic windows kit - SC-7612). However, Werner is also correct BUT only as far as the CF replacement wings are concerned.

 

To this point, it must be understood that the Audi R8 currently has no replacement wing available. Until any is available it will be interesting to hear what the guys suggest we do if someone has lost/broken such a wing. Or for that matter in future for any car where no possible replacement wing is available. Maybe some will start to understand the reluctance of the parity panel to allow any non standard wings. What is more, the regulations we are discussing is aimed at reducing alternative parts, not increase them. These regulations are aimed at reducing having to spend on alternative parts and very importantly is aimed at Championship, Interstate and National events - not local club racing, where clubs can make allowances as they see fit.

 

So I appeal again; try to keep our regulations as simple and pure as possible. It is clear that most contributors to this thread has been up to the task. They have been positive and have avoided making it a personal preference, but rather a better for all approach.

 

Thank you,

 

Jan

[Cleveland]

Hi Werner

 

I'm a little confused now, I just had another look on your site. Are we talking about the same thing? Buying the original rear wing not a CF one?

 

You have 48 items listed under "Scaleauto Products" the item Im talking about is "SC-7612 Spare Body Detail Parts for BMW M3 GTR" it includes the original Rear Wing,windscreen plus other lens. Its only $9.95. But as far as I can see its the only model available,cant see the same spare body details parts for the other makes. THe original wing is the only one allowed to be raced with. The only other way I can see from your site to get the original rear wing for the other makes is to buy the complete white body kit for $33.

 

Mate, if you can show me where these are (im must be getting blind in my old age), I would truley appreciate it, and Im sure there are plenty of other racers out there that are after the same thing.

 

Here's your link to scaleauto products http://acehobbies.com.au/store/index.php?cPath=129&sort=3a&page=2

 

Clevo

[wwwace]

Hi Werner

 

I'm a little confused now, I just had another look on your site. Are we talking about the same thing? Buying the original rear wing not a CF one?

 

You have 48 items listed under "Scaleauto Products" the item Im talking about is "SC-7612 Spare Body Detail Parts for BMW M3 GTR" it includes the original Rear Wing,windscreen plus other lens. Its only $9.95. But as far as I can see its the only model available,cant see the same spare body details parts for the other makes. THe original wing is the only one allowed to be raced with. The only other way I can see from your site to get the original rear wing for the other makes is to buy the complete white body kit for $33.

 

Mate, if you can show me where these are (im must be getting blind in my old age), I would truley appreciate it, and Im sure there are plenty of other racers out there that are after the same thing.

 

Here's your link to scaleauto products http://acehobbies.co...&sort=3a&page=2

 

Clevo

 

 

..........Yes, we did not talk about the same thing as the SC-7612 is not only a standard rear wing but a complete detail set for the BMW. And you are correct, such a spare set is only available for the BMW.

However, when you break off a rear wing it is usually the wing mount that is damaged, not the wing itself. Just get one of the Carbon rear wing sets and use the spare rubber mounts on your standard wing. That way you do not need to buy a complete body kit.

So the use of aftermarket (flexible) wing mounts should be allowed in any rules.

 

Cheers

Werner

[Springbok Racer]

Hi Werner

 

I'm a little confused now, I just had another look on your site. Are we talking about the same thing? Buying the original rear wing not a CF one?

 

You have 48 items listed under "Scaleauto Products" the item Im talking about is "SC-7612 Spare Body Detail Parts for BMW M3 GTR" it includes the original Rear Wing,windscreen plus other lens. Its only $9.95. But as far as I can see its the only model available,cant see the same spare body details parts for the other makes. THe original wing is the only one allowed to be raced with. The only other way I can see from your site to get the original rear wing for the other makes is to buy the complete white body kit for $33.

 

Mate, if you can show me where these are (im must be getting blind in my old age), I would truley appreciate it, and Im sure there are plenty of other racers out there that are after the same thing.

 

Here's your link to scaleauto products http://acehobbies.co...&sort=3a&page=2

 

Clevo

 

However, when you break off a rear wing it is usually the wing mount that is damaged, not the wing itself. Just get one of the Carbon rear wing sets and use the spare rubber mounts on your standard wing. That way you do not need to buy a complete body kit.

So the use of aftermarket (flexible) wing mounts should be allowed in any rules.

 

Cheers

Werner

 

 

Hi guys,

 

The use of these wing mounts are allowed. The current regulations state that you may replace the wing mounts with rubber mounts, provided they are of the same shape as the plastic ones. Here is the current rule quoted:

 

 

1.1.6. BODY & INTERIOR

 

(d) The stock rear wing uprights may be replaced or reinforced with rubber parts of equal or like shape. The Scale Auto Carbon Rear wing may not be used, but the rubber wing mounts supplied with these wings may be used.

 

As promised in an earlier post, I have now posted the current 2012 rules (into post #1) - for ease of reference. This way any further comment can now be checked against the current regulations before I post (after all the input) the 2013 regulations. The latter will be on this forum by the end of November and will remain 'unconfirmed' and for comment until the middle of December when they will be finalised and posted in a locked thread on this forum. After this, only new (parity tested) cars, as released by Scale Auto will be added to the 2013 regulations. No other changes will be made after the middle of December to enable drivers to have enough time before any major event in the new year.

 

Cheers,

 

JanR

Edited November 23, 2012 by Springbok Racer

[Springbok Racer]

 

I have a busted Merc wing now, as does my son. I don't want to have to purchase a new car because the wing is broken.

 

Pete

 

Hi Peter,

 

Scale Auto has a replacement plastic parts kit available (SC-7614) for the Mercedes. So you can easily fix your problem at a minimal cost.

 

Cheers,

 

Jan

[Springbok Racer]

Hi guys,

 

We have been given a special place in this forum for our 1/24th Scale Auto events. The 2013 draft regulations is the first post in this special section. Please go to 'SPECIAL EVENTS' in this forum to view this draft. Once you have had a look and you have any questions or observations, please come back to this thread and post your contributions here.

 

Permission will be seeked from 2013 event organisers to link their topics to this Special Events section so that we can have one place to find everything about this class in 2013 for national racing.

 

Thank you for helping to shape this class into the biggest class of 1/24th Scale Model Car Racing in Australia.

 

Cheers,

 

Jan

[Noel B]

(e) The ground clearance during or at the end of any race is never less than 1.40mm.

 

Jan regarding the above rule.. When are the tyres measured after the start of an enduro ? And what is the penalty if an infringement has occurred re this rule ?

 

Noel

Edited November 30, 2012 by Noel B

[Springbok Racer]

(e) The ground clearance during or at the end of any race is never less than 1.40mm.

 

Jan regarding the above rule.. When are the tyres measured after the start of an enduro ? And what is the penalty if an infringement has occurred re this rule ?

 

Noel

 

Hi Noel,

 

Good question.

 

The application and enforcement of all the rules are always the responsibility of the event organisers. It is my experience that most organisers of events in this class will always check the cars at least after the finish of the race to make sure all finishers are within the rules. The usual penalty for cars that do not comply (with any of the rules) is normally the loss of all laps in the best race segment. Having said that, the race director can instruct any car to be checked and or repaired at any time during the event. This will be the case when parts on a car break, come loose, or obstruct other cars in any way. This could be as simple as a wheel insert coming out or a wing breaking off. When damage to a car occurs during the race it is usually expected to be attended to within two laps, but definitely before the end of that race bracket. All work on the car always only under green (during race time). It is the driver/team responsibility to stay within the regulations, not the event organiser, the race director or the technical scrutiniser's. Other driver/teams always have the right to protest and should do so when it is required - no different to 1:1 racing.

 

That was a bit long winded, but I hope I've answered your (and potentially other) questions.

 

Cheers,

 

Jan

Edited November 30, 2012 by Springbok Racer

[Springbok Racer]

BaVa,

 

Regarding your question on the national rules and the motor in your current BMW.

 

At national level the SC-25 Sprinter is not proposed as a hand out motor in 2013. However, at club racing you will be able to run with it as explained in earlier posts within this topic and the other topic, titled 'Scale Auto at what tracks'.

 

Enjoy your racing.

 

Cheers,

 

Jan

Edited December 2, 2012 by Springbok Racer

[Noel B]

1.1.2. WEIGHT, DIMENSIONS & GROUND CLEARANCE

 

(a) The minimum weight for a complete Scale Auto car is 190g.

(b )The minimum weight for the body with the body mounts and fixing screws attached is 55g.

© The ground clearance will be measured under the entire RTR car with the guide out of play so that all four wheels sit flat on the tech block.

(d) The ground clearance at the start of every race is never less than 1.80mm.

(e) The ground clearance during or at the end of any race is never less than 1.40mm.

 

Jan relating to (e) above do you think to maybe take any ambiguity out of it that we should make it that at the end of the race if the car is below 1.4 mm then the team is disqualified. The car would not be at its optimum any way at that sort of tyre Diam during the race. I know that when we changed tyres in the t/bird enduro last month in the last bracket our car gained about 1 to 1 and 1/2 10ths a lap. This would force teams to check ride height under green in a race and make the call to change tyres . This way I think it is black and white. Just my opinion and I'm more than happy to go with majority.

 

Noel

[paulthetexan]

This particular rule needs to be resolved . I think scrutineering checks at set intervals during the race (eg: every 2 hrs.) is the only way to go . Technically you should have been disqualified at the last meet for running under clearance DURING the race . Bit hard to disqualify yourself I guess . I'm surprised none of the other teams have picked up on it yet .

[Noel B]

Paul it doesn't say what the penalty is during the race.. Other teams did change tyres as well but I have no idea what their ride heights were .. What if teams are under the 1.4 mm ride height at 2 hour intervals ? In Germany in their 24 hour they only considered the ride height at the end of the race and not during ..

 

Noel

[paulthetexan]

If the rule is there you have to work out how to police it . Personally I'd be happy to do away with the During part of it just to simplify it . Up to you guys .

[Noel B]

 

 

If the rule is there you have to work out how to police it . Personally I'd be happy to do away with the During part of it just to simplify it . Up to you guys .

 

I agree with you Paul in that it is unlikely the ride height would reduce to the point where the track surface is in jeopardy of being damaged . The performance of the car would deteriorate forcing a tyre change under green to remain competitive .

 

Noel

[Noel B]

 

 

If the rule is there you have to work out how to police it . Personally I'd be happy to do away with the During part of it just to simplify it . Up to you guys .

 

I agree with you Paul in that it is unlikely the ride height would reduce to the point where the track surface is in jeopardy of being damaged . The performance of the car would deteriorate forcing a tyre change under green to remain competitive .

 

Noel

[axman]

Yep, the "during" part does my head in also and complicates things unnecessarily... Scaleauto cars starting a race at 1.8mm clearance are less of a problem than any other slot car class I know of.

As Noel said, I feel the performance drops of as the tyres get smaller so there is no advantage.. and, you're hardly going to rip up the track braid.

 

My suggestion is have an "official" check tyres at the last lane change... you'll then know it the car needs tyres to finish "legal".

Edited December 2, 2012 by axman

[Springbok Racer]

 

My suggestion is have an "official" check tyres at the last lane change... you'll then know it the car needs tyres to finish "legal".

 

Kim,

 

That is exactly what happened at a few of the overseas races.

 

Noel and Paul,

 

The reality is that on some tracks a smaller wheel diameter improves the cars performance - specifically when you run with the 12:44 gearing. Therefore teams may deliberately run 'low' for periods when they are not at 'risk' of being checked, to gain on acceleration. By having the rule as 'during', the onus is on the driver/team to 'always' be legal. If you are specific with the timing of the checks, drivers/teams will simply 'work' around it.

 

I think you guys are toooooo concerned, we all know that this is only one aspect of the legality of a car. Remember another is minimum weight - cars entered at minimum weight will be illegal if it 'lost' something 'during' the race as there is no 'allowance' for getting lighter.

 

As much as we all want it to be as simple as possible. It is not. But, don't let it do your heads in either. The discretion lies with the race director (let us not tell him his job, except to say - please make sure you have the cars checked for legality, at least once after the finish of the race).

 

Noel,

 

Nobody gets disqualified, only penalised if they finish illegal. In fact I would like to see scrutineering being done AFTER qualifying, then if something is not right, it need to be fixed and re-scrutineered under green at the start of the race. You'll remember that was the case in Trier - teams make sure their cars are RIGHT all of the time. It helps with scrutineering and generally improves time keeping all round.

 

Keep the discussion going, we'll definitely go with the majority come the 15th. But let's not allow our rules to drift too far away from the international standard or the 2012 base.

 

Cheers,

 

Jan

Edited December 2, 2012 by Springbok Racer

[Noel B]

 

My suggestion is have an "official" check tyres at the last lane change... you'll then know it the car needs tyres to finish "legal".

Edited by axman, Today, 07:00 PM

 

I reckon put the onus on the team not an official that way they have to measure their ride height under green (makes for more exciting racing) then make the call whether or not to make a tyre change to avoid the penalty at the end .

 

 

Re the weight Jan technically no car should finish under as the cars have to have all parts attached if they fall off during the race and if you fit a new set of tyres to finish the race you should be back where you were at scrutineering as there are not too many that come in right on the legal weight limit.

 

Noel