Race Coordinator Digital (For Ssd)

[glengtl1]

Thats one thing i forgot to mention with my scorpius dongle is that it is sitting in a usb four port hub which is conneted to my laptop, I was able to run a couple of laps in practice

but my lapy froze again so im havin trouble getting a good run to see if power is lower than when using other systems.once i sort that out i will confirm findings

cheers

Glen

[Johnsxr8]

I will buy a powered hub and give it a go

[Race Coordinator]

Get one from somewhere with a good return policy. It's not likely to work, but considering we know the range of the dongles and what you're seeing it seems like it's either the dongle itself or the setup. I can't remember now, but you're running a relatively "modern" PC right? I mean you at least meet the minimum Win95 spec and ideally beat it by a little?

[Johnsxr8]

From testing it feels like the signal between the controller and the dongle even with brand new batteries in the controller, the pc i am running it off of is probably a overkill for running a simple program like a RMS, it is a Intel Dual Core that i only just reformatted at Christmas to see if it help with this problem at all and is only used for the RMS as i have a Quad core to do all my Gaming on and all drivers for everything on the PC are fine and it even has a pretty decent graphics card in it, i would imagine people would be using much less than that with no issue. I have also tried connecting the dongle to every USB port on the PC. And i am running XP on it atm

Edited March 7, 2013 by Johnsxr8

[glengtl1]

Take solace John since cleaning up my pc and registry i to am now having the very problems you speak of with RCD the application is running fine now and not shutting down my pc however power surges or dropouts if you like have raised thier heads again which is causing the stuttering affect, I have noticed with RCD the electrical noise level is higher cause i can hear it through my displays, not sure if it would cause loss of signal ,I have also noticed that the green connection light in the track setup will be solid and then flicker for fraction which would make sense with the power surge/dropout . I have tested with ssdc and rcs64 for noise level and both are

nill so it seems there may be a slight conflict with apb maybe ?

John i dont think its the controller or dongle as mine works fine on ssdc using the same controller and dongle

 

Dave sorry to drop this on you , mine seemed to be fine , guess i was wrong

Edited March 7, 2013 by glengtl1

[Johnsxr8]

Does the stuttering improve when you get closer to the dongle, mine does and is virtually perfect if you are standing over the top of the dongle. But i am glad that i now know it is definately not a issue with my pc. I have also done extensive testing with ssdc but they have it setup so it does not erase past throttle data so if i get a major signal issue i get a runnaway which destroys my cars more than stuttering but i also cant have stuttering during a racemeet or i will cause crashes

[Race Coordinator]

John,

 

From the sounds of it your PC is plenty fast enough. I was simply worried about the poll rate on the serial port but your computer can more than handle the needed rate. When you walk towards the dongle, are you walking away from anything? Like your monitor/display for example? Once a race is started, try turning off the display (especially if you can "hear" it). I don't know why RC would be causing more interference from the display but the entire issue seems to be how to limit that interference.

 

Glen,

 

Did you change something or just re-test? Until now you've been fine. Also, how thoroughly did you test SSDC? I'd be surprised if SSDC didn't have the same issues, although I'd have to get logs from you to know for sure that it's the same issue John is having.

[glengtl1]

Will give both a run this arvo and see whats what. I know its been awhile but it was one of the first problems i had when i was testing rcd in the begining .I seem to remember a work around which was to do with ports, will try that again to see if it eliminates the stutter

and jerkyness.

[Race Coordinator]

Glen,

 

If you get the stutter to go away that's great. Let us know what you did. If you don't I need to know if SSDC has the same problem. I think it will, but it'll help me troubleshoot to know.

[glengtl1]

Hi Dave so far i have not been able to get the stutter or surge to go away, have ran ssdc for several races and nothing wrong with that side , no stutter or surge with ssdc.

Running through a few scenarios to try and figure out what going on, i have found that if i start rcd and go to run a race i often get no

response from car, even though power base lights indciate a connection, i then exit the race reboot pb and restart the race and cars have power.If i then exit that race and and rcd alltogether the power base lights indicate control is back to pb.Then if i star rcd and a race again it willhave the same problem, i have to exit race reboot pc and start race again.

I have played with scorpius throttle curves to see if that would help but to no avail.the stuttering slash surging seems a little better with

different curves but its still there as my lowndes v8 supercar can attest to at the ned of the straight,no rear wing any more.

I was hoping to find a workaround but so far no prize,

will send some logs

cheers

Glen

[Race Coordinator]

Glen,

 

What version of RCD are you running? That reboot issue may have been addressed. I'm not sure. You shouldn't have to tweak the Scorpius Curves. The problem seems to be 100% transmission loss. Tweaking the curves may help only in that it would change your throttle value going around a curve and the like.

 

The reboot issue aside (that's a completely different thing) does SSDC exhibit the same/similar wireless performance as RCD? John was saying yes, which goes to confirming its probably a signal loss issue.

[glengtl1]

my current version is 99

In my case ssdc is working spot on no interuptions or signal loss.

ok this morning i tried scs wirelss with rcd and it does work at all,removed scs harware and just used scaley controller in pn for 10 or so laps and all worked fine while running this race i removed scaly controller and turned on scorpius controller one to my surprise it ran smoothly for another ten or so laps, i finished race and closed rcd, will try again this arvo to see if still working then try two cars on scorpius throtlles which was fine aswell till my pc cleanup.

ill keep testing but im more inclined to think its something to do with the relationship of the power base and rcd, Thats just a guess though.

cheers

Glen

[Johnsxr8]

I argee with Dave on it being a signal issue, i have done loads of testing since xmas, and find SSDC just masks the problem like RCD used to when Dave released his first working Scorpuis throttle version, which like SSDC does RCD at the time of initial release did not delete last known throttle data so if their is a signal issue no stuttering will be noticed as it just went back to the last throttle position then me and you both noticed a slight laggyness in the Throttle so Dave wrote new versions for us to try and we settled on the version that did wipe last known throttle data but if a signal issue came into play it would lead to stuttering on the throttle coming out of the corner but when it does not stutter this controller feels as good if not better than the aftermarket Truspeed controllers we all use here. At the end of last year i thought it might have been my track somehow causing this issue but after giving it and upgrade over the xmas break and setting the pc in a better position and putting the dongle in Rick suggested places it still did not have any effect on fixing the problems. I now have brought myself in the last month a new Truspeed mk2 controller to race with which is an awesome controller for the money and have been doing comparisons between RCD and SSDC and using both Wired Truspeeds and Wireless Scorpius Controllers and doing about 100 lap stints which on my track takes about 20min a stint. I'll start with RCD first and for all these tests i used the same Scalextric COT Nascar which is fitted with a stock DPR Chip, with the Truspeed i got 100 perfect laps in practice mode no runnaways. With the Scorpius controller standing no more than 2m from the dongle i would get a stutter ocasionally averaging about 2-3 stutters every 5 laps and that was holding the controller close to my body as i do when i race with my left hand covering the top part ready to press the lane changer, after the wireless 100 laps i then walked over to the back side of the track about 4m from the dongle and did 20 laps and noted the stuttering was getting much worse and did it out of most corners, but when controller worked good if felt awesome to drive and did not get one single runnaway which is a good thing. Then i Swapped over to SSDC Did 100 laps in practice mode with no runnaways with the Wired Truspeed, then went to the Wireless Scorpius and stood in my race position again no more than 2m from the dongle and held the controller in my usual race position and in 100 laps i noticed at least 4 runnaways and was not as comfortable with the feel of the controller and could do faster times with the wired over the wireless, i then did some more testing with the wireless and once i started to get aroung 4m from the dongle or stand behind the raised areas of my track where controller can be lower than the table if held in my usual race position that runnaways became more frequent which in my mind make me think this whole thing is a signal issue but is not noticed as much when you dont wipe throttle data. Being that my Track offers little in the way of magnatraction having a good throttle is very important and give you a much netter feel of the car so it is quite easy for us to notice any laggyness or not quite right feel in the controller. At my racemeets i also get guy that hang around and practice afterward most of which i have given them a go just to make sure that i am not the only one that feels that way and besides the stuttering love the way it feels on RCD but most of them noted on SSDC that they felt more comfortable with their wired controllers.

Edited March 10, 2013 by Johnsxr8

[Race Coordinator]

So I could put the build back to preserving the previous controller data, but that's going to re-introduce the flying off the corners condition when the loss gets really high... In some ways I feel like that's what I should do. If I can't somehow magically fix how the car behaves when there is signal loss, and you can't fix the signal loss there may not be anything we can do. If I put the code back to keeping the last known controller state around people with low to no signal loss should get a really great feel... For everybody else I don't know what I can do. Maybe I'll make this an option so users can choose.

 

Hey John, can you turn off anything electrical near your track. I mean everything that's not needed. Start with non-essentials like your monitor (once the race is started of course) and speakers if you use them for audio. Then more to more essential things like lights (assuming you can see well enough to drive the car and gauge how it "feels"). What we really need is an electrical engineer to see if we can figure out where the interference is coming from...

[aussieslotter]

HI Dave,

 

Could the car go to say 25% PWM if data was not received from throttle in X m/S? Then resume once fresh data is received. That way the car "coasts".

At the moment (and since 2010) the throttle to car decoder (Scorpius system) absolutely perfect in every way, and the last dongle was tuned by the best radio tech in Oz, (ex CSIRO), and the throttle test program works perfectly (throttle to dongle) and car to Scorpius RMS (via dongle) works perfectly, so Im currently out of new ideas.......so if we cant solve it I may have to go back to the drawing board.

 

Dave maybe a file that shows pick up by the dongle from controller (if you already dont have one) could be useful in finding out transmission continuity.

 

Rick

Edited March 10, 2013 by aussieslotter

[Race Coordinator]

Rick,

 

Actually you have two good ideas. First, Glen and John should both run the car data program (I assume they can with just the dongle and controller). I'm not sure if it'll show anything other than rapidly streaming data, but it might. Otherwise, yes, I considered writing a "transmission" analyzer that reported how many data packets per second I receive. All I'd need to know is how many it should have received and I can report loss rates. A user could then walk around the room see where the loss is best/worst... Does your John already have something like this? It would be a good tool to have in the Scorpius arsenal...

[aussieslotter]

Hi Dave,

The car data program cannot work with the SSD application, because car data is sent from car decoder to RMS, not from the controller. There is no Scorpius car decoder when using SSD of course.

Secondly no we do not have a transmission program other than the trottle test program which only gives a visual representation on a bar, no actual breakdown in a spreadsheet format, although it is controller to dongle info. John is leaving for China and wont have time right now to write any new programs. As it is Ive waited months for some recent firmware upgrades.

 

You could write a program that takes in throttle data and then over lay onto the actual data received from dongle. This would show up the irregularity, and give vital clues. Im guessing like JohnXR8 its a transmission issue. If it is its a fact of life not every packet will arrive perfectly every time, so the only way to fix it is with software.

 

As I mentioned the car should go into coast mode until fresh data is received, if thats possible.

We had similar issues with the full Scorpius system years back and fixed it without altering hardware. But Im not sure what John did and I doubt wether he would even remember.

 

Rick

Edited March 10, 2013 by aussieslotter

[Race Coordinator]

Yeah I can definitely add something in that tells me what to do when there is data loss. I can either keep the last known value, or set it to some fixed value as you suggest. At what rate should I expect throttle data from the controller? Once I know that I can probably output something form the RMS as a debug log... Long term I could turn it into a stand alone app. But I've already seen big moments in time where I don't get data from my normal logs. So really the best thing I could do is graph this data or something real time so that users could see how their position and the dongle position/setup affect the transmission...

 

As you suggest, zero-ing out the data like I currently do might be a bad idea. I have to check but there's a good chance that will kick in dynamic braking. I'll work something up and send Glen a John a release to see what they think.

Edited March 11, 2013 by Race Coordinator

[Johnsxr8]

I did a little testing last nite With SSDC and as soon as i held the throttle in my normal race position and was only 2m away from dongle i was getting runnaways alot to the point were it was useless and could not even do a lap without some sort of issue but then i plug in my wired controller and not an issue. I am just happy that i was not driving one of my repaints as runnaways at the end of my straight can be quite nasty. I also tried turning off the lights and monitor but that had no effect

[glengtl1]

Its wierd cause mine is totaly opposite ssdc runs with out a hitch smooth control using scorpius no runaways but rcd now does both stutter/surge/runaway plus freezes my laptop

to the point of no return,

[Race Coordinator]

Hmmmm. Glenn is this "freezing" new? What exactly is happening? Does your entire PC lockup? Does RCD lockup for you w/o using the wireless controller? And you're saying the wireless controller stutters AND surges off the track?

 

I'm going to have to build that tool I think. That way you can run it and when it stutters/surges you can look it over and see if it's telling you there was transmission loss... It's going to take some time to do though.

[glengtl1]

Pretty much new, im trying to eliminate any process's working in the background that may cause it but it only freezes when im running rcd, i will start a practice race and do 30, 40 laps and then stop race clicking x and then the warning box are you sure pops up i click yes and freeze occurs so i leave it for as long as i want and then still doesnt fix itself so i

shut it down, even taskmaster has trouble getting it to close but thas pc's i guess well get there!.The only other thing im yet to try is to bump up the ram to 4 gig instead of 2.

 

i will check tonight regarding lockup using normal or wireless controller

i can say there is a lag when refueling with wireless controller, I hold the brake button in and silence i let the brake button out and 5 seconds later i have full fuel, but im presuming this is related to whatever is causing the main problem.

[aussieslotter]

Yeah I can definitely add something in that tells me what to do when there is data loss. I can either keep the last known value, or set it to some fixed value as you suggest. At what rate should I expect throttle data from the controller? Once I know that I can probably output something form the RMS as a debug log... Long term I could turn it into a stand alone app. But I've already seen big moments in time where I don't get data from my normal logs. So really the best thing I could do is graph this data or something real time so that users could see how their position and the dongle position/setup affect the transmission...

 

As you suggest, zero-ing out the data like I currently do might be a bad idea. I have to check but there's a good chance that will kick in dynamic braking. I'll work something up and send Glen a John a release to see what they think.

 

Worst case scenario it will lock up on full throttle. Most tracks you dont need to drive with less than 25% PWM so Id go for 25% x 256 steps or say a value of 64.

 

Guys could you use throttle test program and test transmission to dongle in your particular environments?. If the colour bar is full colour and not flickering thats a good clue throttle to dongle is fairly solid. If the missing data is approximately 3m/s or less we can fix this using software.

 

Glen, the laptop freezing is probably a separate issue but we shall see.

 

Rick

Edited March 12, 2013 by aussieslotter

[Johnsxr8]

I will load the throttle program up tonight and give it a go

[glengtl1]

ok my throttle program shows a solid green bar with momentary flickers at different points on the bar not consisent in position

 

ok re freeze i have removed blutooth and for the moment no freeze ,

 

i had one practice session with my work around ie( start with scaly controller and turn on scorpius controller 1

remove scaly controller) 1 car ran fine no glitches at all untill final audio 10 sec 5 sec left and then car stopped started stopped.

restarted race with two scorpius controllers ,oh crap one wouldnt go while the other had throttle almost instant run away on second car.

 

That one really peaves me cuase not 10 days ago i tested 2 cars with scorpius and they seemed fine.

 

i know these are not a specific bug but may help track down some

Edited March 12, 2013 by glengtl1