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Oz Rally 2010/2011


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#41 manic35

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 11:39 AM

Citroen ugly...

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#42 gazza

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 11:43 AM

sorry ... fugly!
Quickly read this post before it is deleted or i turn grey again

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#43 Ontheflipside

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 11:46 AM

View Postkalbfellp, on Aug 21 2010, 11:22 AM, said:

Quote

If they are too low the car will belly out on some humps or too wide they will pin ball off the scenery (disadvantage to times of relevant cars only)

Mel you should have raised these thought back when you got the first draft rules.

It is simple now,just no wide cars! :lol:

Who wants to see this series turn into a Fly Ninco Porsche series. Lets just run some narrow cars that we all have on the shelf and try and have some fun.

I didn't see the Porsche's being in there a problem but didn't want to object to them being isolated either. I'm not really a Porsche fan but entered one last year as that was the only option I had at the time.

The reason I had not raised the width earlier as I don't think any of us had any idea of the narrowing field implications. I'm not trying to be picky here Phil just trying to make it simpler and easier to find suitable cars for most of the entrants who don't see it as racing for sheep stations. I made a comment way back that my preference was to run the same class and rules two years in a row for those newbies to have a chance of improving on what they did last time. Both Gazza and I raised the height issue late last year. Maybe that could be recommended only.

I guess one of the good things about the Forum is we can all throw our two bobs worth in before the rules are set in concrete. :aussie:

Edited by Ontheflipside, 21 August 2010 - 11:52 AM.

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Mount Salt Panorama Track Combined Road and Rally Track built near Salt Pan Creek Padstow - Sydney

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#44 kalbfellp

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 12:41 PM

Quote

I guess one of the good things about the Forum is we can all throw our two bobs worth in before the rules are set in concrete.

No that is why the draft rules were sent out early last month for the people to comment BEFORE they were put on the Forum. :aussie:

But by not allowing a few Porsches we are down to about 27 cars on the list IF we can sort the clearance problems.

I think Gazza's track is usually the track that has the most problems with clearance, will a car run O/K there IF they only have 1.2 to 1.3 under the rear axle BUT more clearance in the centre of the chassis?

#45 manic35

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 12:45 PM

View Postkalbfellp, on Aug 21 2010, 12:41 PM, said:

But by not allowing a few Porsches we are down to about 27 cars on the list IF we can sort the clearance problems.

Hey Phil, any chance of publishing this list (clearance issues pending of course) for those who are looking at purchasing an entry?

Edited by manic35, 21 August 2010 - 01:10 PM.


#46 gazza

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 03:52 PM

View Postgazza, on Aug 21 2010, 11:30 AM, said:

According to my brand new X- Slot set up pad these cars don't even make 1.5mm clearance, so there out

Fiat 850
Seat 850
Talbot sunbeam
Escort
Alpine 110
Cortina
Porsche 911 (Fly)
Even though these cars are under the "minimum height" they all still get around my track without any problems

Depending on how bad the tyre wear is on the cars by the time they get to my track is another question
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#47 356speedster

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 07:13 PM

I've re-read the thread but still sa bit confused. Will it be 55mm body width or track width?

With a 55mm body width rule all the 911's are out, but the 356's still rallyed in the early 60's ;)

1963 Porsche 356 Carrera 2 GS/GT
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This ex-works car was one of 14 built in 1963, according to specifications for its export to Sweden, where it was used in the Swedish Rally Championship. It ran in the June 1963 "Midnight Sun" rally, which went 150 km north of the Arctic Circle in unbelievable conditions, including a 1.5-km stage through a dark underground iron mine.
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#48 Ontheflipside

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 07:23 PM

View Postkalbfellp, on Aug 21 2010, 12:41 PM, said:

I think Gazza's track is usually the track that has the most problems with clearance, will a car run O/K there IF they only have 1.2 to 1.3 under the rear axle BUT more clearance in the centre of the chassis?
I had a few of the cars (last year) rub on the bridge hump on my track. Both with the Oz and SCX rally cars but with the braid recessed there was no real issue. I'm in Brisbane at present so cannot measure the ideal clearance on my track but Gazza's would be the benchmark IMO
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I just punch them hard and they fly over ;) :aussie: :dog:

Edited by Ontheflipside, 21 August 2010 - 07:25 PM.

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Mount Salt Panorama Track Combined Road and Rally Track built near Salt Pan Creek Padstow - Sydney

A quick build rally track

2017 WRP Round 11 at Mt Salt Panorama

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#49 kalbfellp

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 07:30 PM

356 speester: In post No 16 I mentioned allowing body width or 58mm but retaining the 55mm outside to outside the wheels at max. Happy to allow the 356 IF it was still rallying into the sixties.
Think this list is almost complete,thanks very much to all who have assisted with measuring cars.

1960 – 1980

Alfa Romeo GTV Fly 54mm
Alfa Romeo Giulia sprint GTA Team Slot (plastic) 54 mm
Alfa Romeo Giulia sprint GTAm Auto Art (did it ever rally) 54mm
Austin Healey 3000- Hardtop Ninco 52mm
BMW 2002 Spirit 53mm
Citroen DS21 SCX 56mm and widest
Citroen 2cv Pink Kar 47 mm
Datsun 240z – Scalex 54mm
Fiat 850 SCX 45mm
Fiat 124 Spyder SCX 54mm
Ford Cortina GT Scalex Revell 49mm
Ford Escort MK 1 Scalex 53.5mm
Ford Escort Mk2 SCX 53mm
Holden Torana L34 - Scalextric 56mm
Lancia Stratos Team Slot (plastic) SCX 56mm
Lancai Fulvia HF – Auto Art 48mm
Mercedes 220 & 300 SE Revell 57mm
Morris Mini Cooper Scalex old/new SCX 44/54mm
Opel GT Power Slot 53mm
Porsche 911s Fly 58mm
Porsche Carrera RS SCX 56 mm
Porsche 356 Coupe Ninco 54mm
Porsche 904 – MRRC-Revell Monogram 46.7mm
Renault Alpine A110 SCX 48mm
Renault Alpine A110 Teamslot (plastic) 56mm
Renault 8ts SCX 45.6mm
Talbot Sunbeam Lotus SCX 52mm
Triumph TR-7/8 Scalex 58mm
VW Beetle Pink Kar 50mm
VW Golf Spirit

Edited by kalbfellp, 22 August 2010 - 11:27 AM.


#50 brk12345

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 08:54 PM

If you allow the +55 mm wide cars to run with a 55mm track you can lower the body even more and get a more stable car ie Fly Porsche. It seems that those who choose to run a 55mm car are going to be up against it as there will be a great disparity between these cars. The 55mm car width would have been a great equaliser and would have come down to car build and preparation rather than car choice. Just my thoughts BRK

#51 356speedster

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 10:00 PM

I see what you mean BRK, but on the other hand it will always be a car choice since we are limited to stock chassis.

For instance the Spirit BMW 2002 has a competitive pod-chassis compared to the front motored Fly Alfa GTV, and the Fly 911s will have to use the stock rear mounted sidewinder chassis since the podded Rally chassis only has been released with the wider SC and 934 bodies.

The small narrow cars (<50mm) will also need a lot more preparation to keep up with the big wide cars, but that's just how it is. Those who want a big challenge choose a Mini ;)

About clearance: In the SCX proxy we have abandoned the track clearance rule, since this regulate itself. A car that bottoms out will never win anything. The chassis are plastic so there is no risk of shorting out the track if it accidentally should happen, but hosts have the right to disqualify cars they fear might damage the rails/braid/tape.

A few questions to Phil:

According to Rule #6 I assume it's OK to swap front stub axle's with a solid front axle. But what if you need to sand/modify the front bushing holders a bit to fit other bushings, is that OK?

What about sanding the outer chassis edge for better body float? and sanding the inside body shell for tire clearance?


Tore

Edited by 356speedster, 21 August 2010 - 10:01 PM.

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#52 kalbfellp

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 11:15 PM

According to Rule #6 I assume it's OK to swap front stub axle's with a solid front axle. But what if you need to sand/modify the front bushing holders a bit to fit other bushings, is that OK?

Yes

What about sanding the outer chassis edge for better body float?

Yes

and sanding the inside body shell for tire clearance?
Yes Provided the wheel arches are not enlarged on the outside.

#53 kalbfellp

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Posted 22 August 2010 - 11:28 AM

Ninco 365 Coupe added to list.

#54 teamredracing

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Posted 22 August 2010 - 02:29 PM

Guys ,To me this is all becoming a load of B.S. Lets get down to brass tacks .Its all in the set up of your cars. You set it up to what you think is going to handle each hosts tracks . The track hosts can give any info on their track if anybody is in doubt of the surface ,the bumps in it if there worried about bottoming out ,even to the track surface. Hell there is an abundance of info out there. Yes there has to be rules but if I want to put my car up for the proxy and I find that along the way I've selected the wrong tyres and weighted it up the wrong way and Ive lowered it to a poofeenth of a millimetre to the track and find out that I've come stone motherless last because of my set up ,then its my fault and I've learnt a valuble lesson for next time.

All manufacturers are different in there interpretation of 1/32. Christ , thats evident in SCX and Ninco with both width and height . Even the track hosts dont drive exactly the same ,so is this height and width issue really going to make a difference. Just some info on my 934 Porsche which ran in the last Oz proxy and was made ineligble as it had a height problem , it was fixed and after that it ran like a piece of crap. Yet it ran good times on both my track and Gazza's track before leaving for the proxy.

The other side of this is that what happens when all the cars are sent off to the hosts tracks and find out that as we've shortened the wheel width and bought up the height they now dont handle at some tracks. The only car I have for this Proxy for the particular years stated is a brand new Fiat 850 (Alitalia) SCX and I'm not sure where your getting your info on the wheel width from but out of the box and it 's wheel width is 57mm. So now do I have to buy an eliglbe car that I may not want to run after this Proxy and it then becomes a shelf queen or virtually re engineer the Fiat to fit the rules , which now I find that it doesnt run as well as it did before the re-fit . Have we said what motors are eligble for a car yet or is it what ever you can fit in it then find out the cars not handling because of the width. Sorry as this to can stirr up another can of worms. I agree with Tore with the clearance , those who have entered lowered cars in previous SCX proxy's (GTO's , BMW M1) ,funny enough had little to no probs with height but with traction with some of the different track surfaces. Mel hit the nail right on the head, KISS. If you want to make it certain year so be it ,Keep the tyres within the guards so be it , other than that ,run what ya brung. My apologies if this is a major bitch but reading the ,what you can and cant do for to a car just to enter it in a Proxy is just mind boggling. As I will not be entering a car, I dont feel it fair to enter my track as If a car looks a little suss when it comes to my turn as a track host ,I would not hesitate in letting it run instead of informing the car owner . This is in no disrespect to you Phil and cant imagine how much time it takes to organize all of this. Anyway have a great Proxy to those entering . I will be following it as it still is a Rally Proxy
Cheers Craig
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Posted 22 August 2010 - 04:05 PM

Hi guy's,

I've never entered in any kind of proxy event before and this will be my first. I can't see what the fuss would be over rules as every entrant has to build a car to the same rules. Rules are never made to make everyone
happy. Talk of rules should be what is, not what was.

regards shane a

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#56 manic35

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Posted 22 August 2010 - 04:41 PM

View Postjazzbell, on Aug 22 2010, 04:05 PM, said:

Hi guy's,

I've never entered in any kind of proxy event before and this will be my first. I can't see what the fuss would be over rules as every entrant has to build a car to the same rules. Rules are never made to make everyone
happy. Talk of rules should be what is, not what was.

regards shane a

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I hear you Shane and agree to a limited extent - For me it's more about having simple practical rules as apposed to complicated confusing ones.

I've entered 3 proxy races (only 1 rally) at Auslot because I find things get too complicated. I'm no expert tuner, I just want to participate in the event.

Just give me a list of acceptable cars and some straight forward 'practical' rules I can follow...please drop this sanding the under pan of a chassis and changing the diametre of the wheels stuff...(I only add this last request as it seems the issue of ride height may not be set in concrete as yet???)

My comments are all said in good spirit and intentions...I'm not having a go at anyone, just giving the perspective of a potential 'run of the mill' entrant.

Edited by manic35, 22 August 2010 - 04:54 PM.


#57 smallnails

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Posted 22 August 2010 - 04:42 PM

View Postteamredracing, on Aug 22 2010, 02:29 PM, said:

Guys ,To me this is all becoming a load of B.S. Lets get down to brass tacks .Its all in the set up of your cars. You set it up to what you think is going to handle each hosts tracks . The track hosts can give any info on their track if anybody is in doubt of the surface ,the bumps in it if there worried about bottoming out ,even to the track surface. Hell there is an abundance of info out there. Yes there has to be rules but if I want to put my car up for the proxy and I find that along the way I've selected the wrong tyres and weighted it up the wrong way and Ive lowered it to a poofeenth of a millimetre to the track and find out that I've come stone motherless last because of my set up ,then its my fault and I've learnt a valuble lesson for next time.

All manufacturers are different in there interpretation of 1/32. Christ , thats evident in SCX and Ninco with both width and height . Even the track hosts dont drive exactly the same ,so is this height and width issue really going to make a difference. Just some info on my 934 Porsche which ran in the last Oz proxy and was made ineligble as it had a height problem , it was fixed and after that it ran like a piece of crap. Yet it ran good times on both my track and Gazza's track before leaving for the proxy.

The other side of this is that what happens when all the cars are sent off to the hosts tracks and find out that as we've shortened the wheel width and bought up the height they now dont handle at some tracks. The only car I have for this Proxy for the particular years stated is a brand new Fiat 850 (Alitalia) SCX and I'm not sure where your getting your info on the wheel width from but out of the box and it 's wheel width is 57mm. So now do I have to buy an eliglbe car that I may not want to run after this Proxy and it then becomes a shelf queen or virtually re engineer the Fiat to fit the rules , which now I find that it doesnt run as well as it did before the re-fit . Have we said what motors are eligble for a car yet or is it what ever you can fit in it then find out the cars not handling because of the width. Sorry as this to can stirr up another can of worms. I agree with Tore with the clearance , those who have entered lowered cars in previous SCX proxy's (GTO's , BMW M1) ,funny enough had little to no probs with height but with traction with some of the different track surfaces. Mel hit the nail right on the head, KISS. If you want to make it certain year so be it ,Keep the tyres within the guards so be it , other than that ,run what ya brung. My apologies if this is a major bitch but reading the ,what you can and cant do for to a car just to enter it in a Proxy is just mind boggling. As I will not be entering a car, I dont feel it fair to enter my track as If a car looks a little suss when it comes to my turn as a track host ,I would not hesitate in letting it run instead of informing the car owner . This is in no disrespect to you Phil and cant imagine how much time it takes to organize all of this. Anyway have a great Proxy to those entering . I will be following it as it still is a Rally Proxy
Cheers Craig



Well this HAD been a civil conversation really with no real soap box runs, maybe all the election stuff and then the proxy talk was just all too much for this poor fellow, i do sympathise with you probably more than most with this,

The rules are nothing really except guidelines on your car tuning limits, and so far the questions have all been all in the good spirit of proxy racing with no one getting that upset. Its a shame the cars wont make it to your track red!

Just keep doing what ya doin phil, as you do it! Those that don't like it don't have to enter........simple really.
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#58 teamredracing

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Posted 22 August 2010 - 06:32 PM

Jazzbell ,sorry if this seems to a witch hunt ,it wasnt supposed to be just my opinion. As this is your first , there is always going to be opinions on rules. I've just seen this Proxy become more and more rules. Keep to what Phil has written ,set your cars up as best as possible and the very best of luck to you. Hope you do more. To Smallnails I'm sorry you feel that way as this is a forum and after reading yours ,all I read was Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah. I wasnt getting upset on the rules, I thought it was just becoming a little to Sheep Station if you get my drift. If I wasnt happy with the rules with the first Proxy Rally I entered then I wouldnt have entered a car or even put my old Rally track and my current track up as round. I was in the very first Oz Proxy Rally and did quite well ,not on podium but happy that my car went the distance. Rules were straight forward and it ran well. All I'm saying is let the guy who enters the Proxy ,even for his first time ,make it easy and simple. The more harder you make it there's a chance he or she may not enter. I have been reading the the post along the way and it was the reason I wrote what I did. We tend to forget we are in this for the fun of it. I enjoy it just so I can set up a car to the best of my abilility to run on your own track if your hosting and even try to remember the tracks from previous Proxy's so you can pick a tyre set up and weight set up that you think may suit the tracks the cars are going too . Thats the fun of it. The learning kerb. Thats why I enter. Now I have to worry on the width of my car as well as the chassis height before I enter it just so it will be eligble to run. And thats before I even put it on my track to set it up. Why? Overall I'm just saying lets not get to technical. This is a fun event that can go on for a long time. IMO
Cheers Craig

Edited by teamredracing, 22 August 2010 - 06:34 PM.

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#59 smallnails

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Posted 22 August 2010 - 07:11 PM

lol....blah blah blah....no stress here tiger.............tis easy is all i am saying.........i guess after being part of a proxy a couple of years ago where the rules ended up being a little vague, people got a little too upset over it, there were plenty of rants over it, sheep stations were being lost daily then!!! So its a natural swing for the rules to go a little bit too far before they come back to being balanced.


Phil..............just keep doing what ya doing man!
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#60 Ben_M

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Posted 22 August 2010 - 10:02 PM

Something for everyone
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Sorry but am I missing something here? I am a newbie to this stuff but as far as I can see not much has changed since last year. All that has changed is the date of eligible cars and a max width which I thought was to get some different cars off the shelf and onto the track. The car that I want to run is under the height limit (well the car moves when I stick a 1.5mm allen key under it :P ) and it runs like a dog in standard trim on my new track as it bottoms out in a few places. I would hate to have a flatter track and think that the height was ok only to find that its no good on most rally tracks. Having an actual figure gives people something to aim for not just guessing how how high it should be.

Lets just get the rules set in concrete ASAP so those that want to play the game can and we can get cracking on our builds.
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