What Controller?

[kalbfellp]

One advantage of the base PM controller is that you can always upgrade it later. But that is not the cheapest option.

 

resistor controllers are steam-age

 

So are transistor controllers!

 

 

This is one of two I have,possible one of the first electronic controllers sold around 1966 and Australian made!

[tooter]

Think its all been said already but heres what I use .

 

I have a Ninco 4lane which is set up with economy Parmas and they are fine ,at home I have a scaley 2 lane using Pro Motors .

 

For club racing I have 3 Cicuit master ( di falco lookalikes) great controllers but not cheap and probably overkill for your needs.

 

Sorry to repeat myself but I'd go for the PMs but as Mark said get the variable ones.

 

Cheers

 

Geoff.

[munter]

The Professor motor 2110 will do you for the next five years,that is once you have rigged up the new power supply.

 

Variable sensitivity(like me) and variable brakes can make a huge diiference when running a variety of cars,especially non magnet.

 

I used mine to tame the scaley classic mini but then I could adjust things slightly for a scratchbuilt car with a S16D.

These are good value IMHO

 

yours sincerely and sensitively

munter

[espsix]

Ember,

buy a couple of Parma Econos, rip out the resistor block, and buy a couple of Mr Aastes's "diode conversion kits", they are very easy to fit, and it will solve the burnt resistor wire issue, while your at it, grab a couple of DSE 10ohmor20ohm pots, and add adjustable brakes.

you will then have a couple of controllers that while last for years.

[first corner crash]

If you are running on a home track and the people you are inviting over are not experienced club level racers then variable controllers will just confuse them anyway. I would just go the cheap option of getting a 25 or 35 ohm Parme and adding a brakepot later if you want to. NSR do a parma handle controller with a 25/45 ohm resistor option it isn't overly expensive i don't think and i think it has a variable brakes. I am thinking resistors are cheap and if you wanted to swap out the 25 for a 15 or the 45 for a 35 you could do it easily enough if you ever felt the need. I am thinking you probably never would. I have a PM electronic controller the top of the line one o and a 25ohm parma I also have an NSR electronic controller with variable brakes sensitivity and traction control but take it from an addict that all of these gizmos will actually hurt more than help before you learn to drive exceptionally well. The guy who won the nationals in the hotly contested slot it group c class did so with a parma turbo with a brake pot added although it was set to full so he could of just used it out of the box. Hope that helps.

[slots]

One advantage of the Parma Turbo is that all controllers are based around that frame. The Parma can be modified to take any type of internals.

 

SlotsNZ, aligning a resistor in one is simple. Set it as close to having the button flush as possible and SAND THE BUTTON FLAT. If you can't change a resistor in 15 minutes, you got a real problem.

[kalbfellp]

he Professor motor 2110

 

That is about twice Embers budget!

[Ember]

Ahh budgets. Life would be simpler and probably a whole lot more fun without them

[Ember]

Ok. After much reading, re-reading, discussion, link following, flipping between web-pages, emailing, etc....

 

 

 

I'm leaning toward a pair of......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Drumroll please.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Non variable PM2122s. Which is kind of back where I started.

 

Thanks to everyone for the input. Has all been taken under consideration. And the biggest bonus.... My head didn't explode. Got close there for a while. And as always a big thanks to Mr Osborne for email discussion on the side.

 

Feel free to talk me out of it. I haven't placed the order yet.

[SlotsNZ]

One advantage of the Parma Turbo is that all controllers are based around that frame. The Parma can be modified to take any type of internals.

 

SlotsNZ, aligning a resistor in one is simple. Set it as close to having the button flush as possible and SAND THE BUTTON FLAT. If you can't change a resistor in 15 minutes, you got a real problem.

 

Mate I've changed more resistors and soldered more wires to fix those damn things than most people have had hot brekkies, it's just a pain in the bum,

and you have to go haul out a 100 watt gun or soldering station, etc ........ and doesn't happen if you don't have a resistor to break,

- and always occurs when you are using them,

and people are wanting to use them,

and people are waiting to use them,

and usually when kids are waiting to use them,

and kids are sitting around whinging because you're fixing one,

and kids are sitting around whinging because you got sick of them whinging and asked them if they'd like a piece of that nice shiny runny metal like mercury to hold ------"hissssssss"

 

The amount of support for resistor controllers here is like some kind of religion, you joker's aren't all closet quakers or something are you??

I just can't imagine a facet where a resistor controller has an advantage over an electronic one, except initial outlay.

 

Remember, not everyone gets it right first time if they only do one every few months. Brakes don't work because the angle on the trigger is just out, or the trigger sticks because one of the wires is catching.

 

Did I mention the 20 or 30 broken brake wires at the back over a 2 year period..... they'd periodically snap, and we'd lose brakes, so pull apart again, patch it, then go find some soft silicon wire to make a more permanant fix after the session.

Or someone would break a brake wire, or burn a resistor and not tell you, so NEXT time you go to use it.... oh, "No.3 has no brakes" or "No.5 only has full power or nothing" . . . .

 

And half the time you can't even buy the damn resistors across the counter in Oz anyway - 3 or 4 times over a year we had resistor controllers out of action for weeks after I rang EVERY single slot shop in Australia and one wholesaler there just trying to buy 4 or 5 off 25 or 35 ohm resistors in one place as an economic parcel .... I ended up having to go to PM (who kept a few in those days), and to Parma themeselves.

 

But Ember opened this thread for her situation, and in that, it is a no brainer, - go electronic.

 

--------passes ember another tin of fish bait. ----------

 

...you're just trying to start a fight aren't you lady? . . I suppose you'll open a thread with a magnet poll next.......

 

EDIT - Ember, unless you plan to run 1/24th Flexis, there's no need to consider a 2122, a 2120 is good for everything up to and including Falcon and Super 16D without even breaking into a mild sweat - so save $10 a pop.....

[munter]

Another good chat about controllers,eh chaps!!

[Ember]

--------passes ember another tin of fish bait. ----------

 

...you're just trying to start a fight aren't you lady? . . I suppose you'll open a thread with a magnet poll next.......

 

EDIT - Ember, unless you plan to run 1/24th Flexis, there's no need to consider a 2122, a 2120 is good for everything up to and including Falcon and Super 16D without even breaking into a mild sweat - so save $10 a pop.....

:haha: :haha:

 

Hmmm magnets for fish bait? I know better than to ask anything about magnets around you blokes Magnets are for attaching slot shop business cards to the fridge in the slot room, aren't they?

 

Could always try Coke vs. Pepsi Or amongst this crowd perhaps that should be Bundy vs Beam. Or for the educated palate: Peat Dried Barley Malt vs Natural Dried Barley Malt. (To the unintiated that question translates to Scotch vs Irish)

 

No, seriously. Thanks for the tip SlotsNZ. A pair of 2120 it is. And if I order them tonight I should have 'em in my cold li'l hand by Thursday. Wire up Friday. Whoohooo! And a day to practice by myself on Saturday. Slap a coat of plaster or joint compound on track around 5:30 just in time for HL to wander in the door from Ballarat around 6. Then Sunday becomes "No dear, I haven't been practicing. I spent all day working hard on landscaping." Ooohhh yeah. Sounds like a plan!

[kalbfellp]

You guys in NZ must think Parma controllers are sheet the way you ==== them!

I do agree electronic is the better controller BUT IMO they are way over priced.

 

Where is RePete and his conversion modules?

[tooter]

you're going to notice a world of difference from the stock scaley ones.

Enjoy!

[slots]

One advantage of the Parma Turbo is that all controllers are based around that frame. The Parma can be modified to take any type of internals.

 

SlotsNZ, aligning a resistor in one is simple. Set it as close to having the button flush as possible and SAND THE BUTTON FLAT. If you can't change a resistor in 15 minutes, you got a real problem.

 

Mate I've changed more resistors and soldered more wires to fix those damn things than most people have had hot brekkies, it's just a pain in the bum,

and you have to go haul out a 100 watt gun or soldering station, etc ........ and doesn't happen if you don't have a resistor to break,

- and always occurs when you are using them,

and people are wanting to use them,

and people are waiting to use them,

and usually when kids are waiting to use them,

and kids are sitting around whinging because you're fixing one,

and kids are sitting around whinging because you got sick of them whinging and asked them if they'd like a piece of that nice shiny runny metal like mercury to hold ------"hissssssss"

 

The amount of support for resistor controllers here is like some kind of religion, you joker's aren't all closet quakers or something are you??

I just can't imagine a facet where a resistor controller has an advantage over an electronic one, except initial outlay.

 

Remember, not everyone gets it right first time if they only do one every few months. Brakes don't work because the angle on the trigger is just out, or the trigger sticks because one of the wires is catching.

 

Did I mention the 20 or 30 broken brake wires at the back over a 2 year period..... they'd periodically snap, and we'd lose brakes, so pull apart again, patch it, then go find some soft silicon wire to make a more permanant fix after the session.

Or someone would break a brake wire, or burn a resistor and not tell you, so NEXT time you go to use it.... oh, "No.3 has no brakes" or "No.5 only has full power or nothing" . . . .

 

And half the time you can't even buy the damn resistors across the counter in Oz anyway - 3 or 4 times over a year we had resistor controllers out of action for weeks after I rang EVERY single slot shop in Australia and one wholesaler there just trying to buy 4 or 5 off 25 or 35 ohm resistors in one place as an economic parcel .... I ended up having to go to PM (who kept a few in those days), and to Parma themeselves.

 

But Ember opened this thread for her situation, and in that, it is a no brainer, - go electronic.

 

--------passes ember another tin of fish bait. ----------

 

...you're just trying to start a fight aren't you lady? . . I suppose you'll open a thread with a magnet poll next.......

 

EDIT - Ember, unless you plan to run 1/24th Flexis, there's no need to consider a 2122, a 2120 is good for everything up to and including Falcon and Super 16D without even breaking into a mild sweat - so save $10 a pop.....

 

No wonder Parma make so much money. How many have you broken?????????? Personally, I've burnt out 1, that's right, 1 in using it for 15 years every weekend and half the days of the week. What ARE you doing to them??????????? :haha: :haha:

[gazza]

No wonder Parma make so much money. How many have you broken?????????? Personally, I've burnt out 1, that's right, 1 in using it for 15 years every weekend and half the days of the week. What ARE you doing to them???????????

That might be so, but in the last 15 months how many "pods" have you burnt out and circuit breakers have you tripped on different tracks around Sydney ???????????????

[MOPARGREG]

I like Parmas econo's but thats just me. They are the only controller Ive used, but I like them. My track is used by a lot of kids & adults that new to slots & have been great.

[oswald900]

Ive always ran Parma Controller but brought a PM with all the adjustments and love it.

 

Just wish there was someway you could run a Electronic on Negative and Positive wired tracks.Out of 5 tracks ive run at the PM only runs on 3 of them GGGGGGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

[munter]

How many have you broken?????????? Personally, I've burnt out 1, that's right, 1 in using it for 15 years every weekend and half the days of the week. What ARE you doing to them???????????

 

Yeah, we are still waiting for the new resistor that has number eight wire for windings,lots of them!

 

 

I think the parmas are a great design,the turbo designed by Phillipe deLespinay is a good machine.

I still have a couple from a total of six but have sold all my economy models,had about seven of them.

A good design is a simple design in my book.

 

I have had burn out problems only two or three times over a few years.

Once my neice pushed down on a metal chassis car and pulled the trigger.....had me thinking about track fuses after that.

 

regards

[kennedyrd]

I think you have made a good choice.

 

To all you "pro racers" a Parma is going to last you forever but it is the magnet racing situation with little kids (sounds like your scenario embers?) that ruins them as they hold them on one constant setting for extended periods which cooks the resistors very nicely and which Mark then had to fix.

 

For the experienced drivers racing no magnet that never happens so no ruined controllers. I am the proud owner of all the club controllers now and they all died a similar death. Can't be bothered fixing them. Anyone want to buy them? Not sure of their exact type but SlotsNZ can enlighten you all I am sure. One of them goes. Will work out a price when I see Mark tonight if anybody is interested. Thay have XLR plugs fitted.

Edited August 24, 2009 by kennedyrd

[SlotsNZ]

No wonder Parma make so much money. How many have you broken?????????? Personally, I've burnt out 1, that's right, 1 in using it for 15 years every weekend and half the days of the week. What ARE you doing to them???????????

 

Yo Stu,

 

I dunno, but some nights at club my toast was overdone a bit....any ideas?

I don't think Parma are a "bad" product", they've controlled the slot world for a long time, but with the broad range of slotting environment out there now in cars and tracks, the limitations of a controller using electrical resistance - a fixed resistance, is a drawback.

 

In all seriousness, - actually this came up in one of the historical threads gazza listed earleir for Ember- we were running a mix of stock and lightly modified scaleys as magnet cars on Ninco. The more serious members mostly bought an electronic controller fairly early on, but the casual drivers and families seldom did, and so used the club ones.

We had 4 "Plus" as club controllers, which started off as 35 ohm, and I had a 25, and loaned my 15 ohm Turbo and sometimes my spare economy as well to keep 4 "live" controllers.

After we'd cooked a number of resistors on the club ones, and a few private driver ones, munter - who has been "fiddling around in his garage with copper tape" since dinosaurs wandered the streets of Napier city - said "it's wierd, I've never had this much problem with mine"

(actually he's not much older than me, but I never miss a chance to throw doo doos his way )

I ended up ringing Parma when I couldn't buy enough resistors in Oz.

The sales manager Steve something or other did the doctor thing, asked me a umber of questions about our situation, and the summary was

1) Using higher resistance controllers means more heat than say munter running 16D with a 10 ohm, or something hot with 3 ohm

2) Running on magnet track with cars with plenty of magnet - and Ninco has higher downforce than scaley, so more resistance, more trigger, more heat

3) Kids who no one has forced to learn to drive, holding the throttle part way down and just circulating, causing a heat build up at on point on the windings

4) see 3

5) see 3

6) see 3

 

So much of or problem was the juniors situation, but/and that relates to Ember's situation. She'll likely end up with kids driving long periods with magnets, not the ideal.

To Parma's credit, they gave me 8 free resistors purely as a goodwill contribution to our club which they sent off with the ones I paid for, and hat's off to them for that. I am just surprised they have never gone into at least a diode controller production.

[kalbfellp]

Non variable PM2122

 

Don't forget you will need to change the polarity of that Scalex track when you get these.

[gzminiz]

The PM controllers say they are for 10v-15v etc. Any idea what happens if the volts drop below 10v? The reason I ask is because I am planning on having a pit lane speed ~6 volts (is that too slow?) I would like to test this out before I wire it up, hate to have a it way too slow.

[SlotsNZ]

The PM controllers say they are for 10v-15v etc. Any idea what happens if the volts drop below 10v? The reason I ask is because I am planning on having a pit lane speed ~6 volts (is that too slow?) I would like to test this out before I wire it up, hate to have a it way too slow.

 

Is your idea to have a low supply voltage so that it is easier for people to accurately "creep" into a pit bay 'slot' for refueling?

Did I get that right?

 

I don't think any electronic controller will function with a supply voltage of 6.

I have tested some standard PM controllers down to about 8 volts, 2120 and 2116 models, and the Slot.it functions down to about 8.5/8.6 supply voltage.

 

But I can't see how you can use a different supply voltage to the pits from the rest of the track, controlled by the same controller.

- Am I missing something?

 

Only solution I can think of, -- Is it possible to simply throw a resistance into the line for an section of the track that has one side of the power "isolated" by dead strips - ie, a separate feed from the rest....... which could maybe acheive the same result. - you'd a need thumping great wire wound pot. I've seen 50 - 60 watt capable ones used for audio systems, they're in the Jaycar catalogue. That would give you potential to dial a variable resistance into the pitlane circuit area, on the opposite "leg/side" of the circuit to the one which the controller varies.

[gzminiz]

The PM controllers say they are for 10v-15v etc. Any idea what happens if the volts drop below 10v? The reason I ask is because I am planning on having a pit lane speed ~6 volts (is that too slow?) I would like to test this out before I wire it up, hate to have a it way too slow.

 

Is your idea to have a low supply voltage so that it is easier for people to accurately "creep" into a pit bay 'slot' for refueling?

Did I get that right?

 

I don't think any electronic controller will function with a supply voltage of 6.

I have tested some standard PM controllers down to about 8 volts, 2120 and 2116 models, and the Slot.it functions down to about 8.5/8.6 supply voltage.

 

But I can't see how you can use a different supply voltage to the pits from the rest of the track, controlled by the same controller.

- Am I missing something?

 

Only solution I can think of, -- Is it possible to simply throw a resistance into the line for an section of the track that has one side of the power "isolated" by dead strips - ie, a separate feed from the rest....... which could maybe acheive the same result. - you'd a need thumping great wire wound pot. I've seen 50 - 60 watt capable ones used for audio systems, they're in the Jaycar catalogue. That would give you potential to dial a variable resistance into the pitlane circuit area, on the opposite "leg/side" of the circuit to the one which the controller varies.

 

Yeah, basic idea is pit lane speed limit, controlled by voltage (and a caution speed for deslots [deslot in essence incurs a penalty]) and in the current model is controlled by a regulator and some electronic wizardry that sets the volts down to 6 going into the controller when you hit pit lane. I thought about the resistor on pit lane with dead strips but it isn't "fixed" in the sense it knocks off a percentage of the max speed. With each lane being variable voltage if I have mine set to 15 and my son to 10 then my pitlane speed would be faster (and caution). Either way, no matter, I just won't be going with a diode based controller. Would 8volts be a fast pit/caution speed? hum, maybe i just try out the track on a vriable power supply to see how fast 8v really is.