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rick1776

Podded Vs Nonpodded

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Well looking at the NZ proxy and our own Aus proxy Im asking myself, is all the podded advantage just hot air generated by manufacturers who make podded cars? If there is an advantage in having a podded car I cant see it in the results. A well set up car is a well set up car, a crap set up is a crap set up, regardless of whether it has a pod or not.

 

From what I have see so far a podded car is a lot harder to set up and get right than a non podded. Set up well and its a good set up, but its no better than a non podded. No need to call in Myth Busters, this one has been busted.

 

Still havent heard a convincing arguement as to how a pod actually works and why this is better than a non podded. As far as I can tell 90% of the performance comes from choosing the right tyres, the last 10% from just bolting in the correct parts and taking some basic care with the build.


cheers

rick1776

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Hello Dr Rick

In relation to the DUPR series' the reason originally for allowing the pod to be fitted was to allow models with bad chassis layout design like Fly front engines cars or those Carrera dungers a chance to compete with the better cars. It worked so well for one guy who entered a Fly Lister Storm that he won the 06 series with it. it onl in the last 2 series that they have allowed the SlotIt chassis cars in and this year the class separation because of the numbers entered.

The theory for podded designs is to separate pod is to isolate the drive train from the chassis with vibrations and give the car a form of crude suspension.

I think when the design is done properly and is set up the right there maybe an advantage. :lol:

Cheers

Alan

 

resaon for ed; I really should preview before I post stuff :lol:

Edited by lenny broke

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Id back Manimmal's re-engineered chassis against any podded car any day of the week. That set up is quality, so much so that I have paid Aastes a considerable amount of bribe money to ensure that he doesnt get his car back at the end of the proxy. :lol: Like I said if there is an advantage in having a pod Im struggling to see it. :lol: In general I think the podded design gets people into more trouble than its worth. That vibration isolation stuff gets thrown up all the time. personally I cant see how that works. Are you trying to isolate the motor vibrations from the tyres? Well that cant work as the pod has motor and tyres as one unit. Track vibrations from the body? Well that cant work as the guide is taking the brunt of the vibrations. Done right there may be a bee's dick in it but then how many have got it right so far in the proxy? :lol:


cheers

rick1776

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Id back Manimmal's re-engineered chassis against any podded car any day of the week.

remember, 90% of that re-engineering is the tyres! :lol:

or are you just aiming the 90% comment at the podded cars?

Edited by espsix

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Id back Manimmal's re-engineered chassis against any podded car any day of the week.

remember, 90% of that re-engineering is the tyres! :lol:

or are you just aiming the 90% comment at the podded cars?

 

 

hey!!!!

 

yeah, 90% is the right tyres, 10% is getting the chassis to use the available grip. the idea of a pod is to reduce movement being transmitted through the chassis and ultimately the body i think??(correct me here)

 

at the end of a day the KISS method tends to be the best way to go, especially as there are less things to go wrong.


My mum says I'm an excellent driver

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Dont get me wrong Manimmals car is the dogs bollicks and Ive got quite a few cars that will be done exactly the same. 90/10% or 80/20% dont know but its the tyres and then as Manimmal has said its getting the most out of them from the chassis. Does the podded have a distinct advantage in doing this? Cant see it from the results.

 

At one of the clubs in SA the hot set up is to have the NSR Mosler with the pod done up tight and for the body to be loose as per non podded cars. WTF?? Says it all really.


cheers

rick1776

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Heres my two cents worth Rick

The aim of the podded chassis is to keep both rear wheels driving on the track surface . A non podded chassis with the body loosened can flex along its lateral line ( front to rear ) so with the body screws loose the non podded designed chassis can twist a little. With a podded style chassis even with the body screws tight the design has some twist still available because the podded section can move seperatly from the main chassis that the body is screwed to . The podded style offers a little more tuning via adjustment to the podded retaining screws and the main chassis retaining screws .

To me running the body screws loose does more than just allow the chassis to flex under it , when a car enters a corner the body lifts upwards because it wants to keep going forward - without the screws it would fly off but as it lifts it hits the retaining screws and transfers some shock/weight to the chassis . The main chassis part can absorb some of this shock and then with the pod screws a little loose as well the pod section can absorb some shock . By having two sections in a chassis the shock can be slightly lessened making the weight transfer a little bit softer. Its not much of a difference but it helps to have a little more shock absorbed by the seperate pod section I think.

I run the furry part of velcro on my 1/24th cars where the body retaining screws run through the chassis into the wall plug body mounts , The velcro is only 1.5mm thick but I think it helps to soften that shock of the body rolling as it floats around , it also keeps the car quiet as the body isn't rattling on the steel chassis .

Something interesting that I tried recently was cutting the steel chassis across the back to seperate the back section ( motor and rear axle ) away from the front section of the chassis - its a bit along the same lines as a podded section in regards to allowing some extra twist into the chassis so the rear inner wheel stays on the track more through a corner . I found it does have much better grip through the corner and it doesn,t slide as much on the corner exit . Racing that car against Neil I had better drive / grip than he did with 8mm wide tyres over his 14mm wide tyres . But it is a different kind of animal to drive because of that chassis mod . Same thing I feel with podded 1/32 and non podded 1/32 chassis - slightly differnt characteristics to there handling that suit some drivers more than others ? Thats my best guess

th_51chevchassis-1.jpg

th_poddedvsnonpoddedchassistwist2bitma.jpg

Edited by BMR

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Steve,

Hope that little mod doesnt sneak into the Trans Am series, I'd hate for Neil to cut ya cods off. :D

He saw it and lifted his eyebrows , he was saying during the race he was amazed at the corner speed it had for a car that is also a fair bit narrower than his galaxie and its got a hard plastic interior with 80% of the rear seat still in it as well :bday: No worries on chassis mods in the Stocker class its still open chassis / with super 16d motors some older cars still run with old 26ds in them.

Trans Am series will stay as it is as its a good class with real close racing - one crash and its first to last place in about the time it takes the marshal to say "oh oops hes off"

 

PS - Rick notice that there is no top view photo of that cut chassis - you don't need to see it your already doing well enough with your Stocker as it is with the cambered front wheels thanks :alcohol:

Edited by BMR

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There are many metal chassis' that are two part or three part design.

The Champion turbo flex and the old international 32 come to mind.

The designers must know something.

 

What I cant figure is why some podded chassis work better tight and some work better loose.

I have recently struggled to get a slotit nissan up to speed.After tightening the pod screws its away....

The McLaren I also have for that class likes things a bit loose...dont know why???

 

The slotit chassis' are one of the few plastic chassis that I have that dont need some sort of bracing to work well.

Running on wood with no mags and upgraded parts my ninco ascari has bracing,my scaley camaro has bracing,my fly Lola evo has bracing,my ninco 350z has bracing....most plastic chassis will flex somewhere and usually where it is not needed.

 

regards


John Warren

Slotcars are my preferred reality

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The podded cars really show the difference in handling on the tighter tracks,on faster flowing tracks there is less differance between the two types of chassis.

I agree with you on that Phil, In the tighter corners is where the extra chassis movement of the podded style chassis seems to have an edge on the non podded / one piece chassis , corner exit grip mostly. I've noticed that the podded chassis seem to have less of a tendancy to overslide or fishtail out of the corners. In the large fast sweeping corners where a car needs to hold a nice controlled slide I think the more ridgid chassis have less of a tendancy to flounder about between sliding and gripping , the podded chassis seem to want to grip up mid slide and they don't often look as happy to stay in a nice hard throttle power slide - With podded style chassis I have found that I need to change my driving style from hard throttle sliding to a more gentle throttle , powering through with very limited slide and use the grip . Of course a lot is in the set up that has been done by the owner of a car - you can't bunch all the podded cars in one pile and say they will all do this or that - tyres , ballast , how tight or loose is it all come into play huh . What you need to do Rick is compare the cars as evenly as possible on one lane and all running with the same grip but even then the cars will be different because of the different body weights and C.G. being different .

Rick you say one of the NSR moslers in the club runs with the pod done up tight - is that because the driver has a hard throttle power slide style ? Or was the car unstable sliding in the corners when it was running loose ? Was the car re fit with wider wheels & tyres or were the wheels set out wider on the axle and the extra body roll of a loosened pod causing the tyres to rub the body ?

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The Slot It motor pod has no movement between the motor and rear axle,that is why it does not need bracing. The cars that need bracing all move between the motor and axle bearings,that causes most of the problems.

 

I agree but I have noticed that some of the motor cradles allow the motor to move. This would be quite difficult to engineer as they need the mounts to flex so the motor can snap into place, but rigid enough to hold the motor firm. I guess they chose to lean towards flexing, as there would be fewer complaints due to the mounts not breaking. Anyway I found hot glue gun works well to hold the motor.

 

I also agree with BMRs theory for pods I’m not that good at dynamics but from what I understand. When a car heads into a corner the weight of the car creates an inertia force at the point the car changes direction. If this force is greater than the friction between the track and the tyre then the car will slide. As BMR described having play in the body reduces the inertia force by distributing the weight. For example,

• First force created by the motor and drive chain changing direction.

• Second force by the chassis roll on the pod, changing direction.

• Third force from the lose body on the chassis, changing direction.

All this helps the car enter the corner at the maximum speed. Some people add weight to the car to give extra down force increasing the resistance between track and tyre this can also be a disadvantage as that weight also adds to inertia force created when changing direction. This would explain why some lighter cars actual handle better. I’m not sure if Manimmals car had weight added but from what I remember it was reasonably light compared to the whole field of cars, also Hoffys car had very little weight added. :alcohol:

 

Anyway good topic for discussion


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Maybe podded chassis give manufacturers some extra bits to sell like magnetic suspension? May I throw the MB Slot triangular pod into the fray? Now there are two tripods on one.


Outside the box looking in.

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You don't own stuff: Stuff owns you!

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Having a cold drink on hot day with a few friends is nice, but having a hot friend on a cold night after a few drinks - PRICELESS.

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You make very valid points Imkouwl and I fully agree. Now will you let me see what youve done to that NSR Mosler to get it to work? Mines still a piece of shite :alcohol: .


cheers

rick1776

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You make very valid points Imkouwl and I fully agree. Now will you let me see what youve done to that NSR Mosler to get it to work? Mines still a piece of shite :alcohol: .

 

Yes, nowories, like I said at the end of the championship :bday:


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You make very valid points Imkouwl and I fully agree. Now will you let me see what youve done to that NSR Mosler to get it to work? Mines still a piece of shite :bday: .

 

Yes, nowories, like I said at the end of the championship B)

Here ya go Rick Im spilling the beans on Imkouwl - Waynes secret is 36 grit sandpaper , that really coarse yellow stuff . He rubs two layers of skin off his trigger finger . More throttle sensitivity he says :bday:

No doubting that its a big advantage to have your own track to play on when everyone else has gone home leaving a nice rubbered up track to test out some ideas on hey Wayne .

So your answer to getting a car to handle better Rick is to build something longer than the two foot long powered set up board I think you must be using :D :alcohol:

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So superior driving talent is not enough...Hmmmm. :o Might have to bring in a maximum number of testing days allowed just like they do in V8 Supercars. :lol::lol: But then all you cheating Holden guys would share each others telemetry data. :P BMR + Imkouwl = Team Walkinshaw

 

Im happy to share all my plastic Scaly track telemetry data with you guys. :lol::lol:


cheers

rick1776

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You make very valid points Imkouwl and I fully agree. Now will you let me see what youve done to that NSR Mosler to get it to work? Mines still a piece of shite :lol: .

 

Yes, nowories, like I said at the end of the championship :lol:

 

Think Rick has fixed the problem.. Seems round tyres work better. who would of thunk it ???


4x national champion 6x national runner up. I come second most often but my girlfriends happy.

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Maybe podded chassis give manufacturers some extra bits to sell like magnetic suspension? May I throw the MB Slot triangular pod into the fray? Now there are two tripods on one.

 

I really like the setup of the Mb slot anglewinder pod as the pivot being singular it makes it easier to induce and judge the amount of pod movement. NSR pods have a single pivot in the front but the front of the pod is squared off and although a really good design is a litttle harder to judge the amount of float you are getting when moving the pod in the chassis by hand. For my thinking re podded v non podded its just another variable to be entered into certainly the concept of a pod is to allow the motor and its weight to move towards the outside wheel during cornering to promote some rear wheel steer (hence enhanced grip) and also to reduce any motor vibration to the chassis. Some cars work better with more float The Zonda i have in the DUPR was an absolute pig with a firm pod but when i setup an NSR i always set them up the same the rear two screws about 1/3 turn ant the front one just loosened to snug rather than tight.Despite my very average driving abilities i think my NSR's more than hold there own. Thats for wood tracks though. People running plastic track (read bumpier track) gain more benefit I am told by allowing the pod to be much looser and allow the front to stay more planted... Makes sense in theory to. Having said all that one of my favourite cars is a Ninco Supra handles beautifully and no pod in sight.


4x national champion 6x national runner up. I come second most often but my girlfriends happy.

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th_poddedvsnonpoddedchassistwist2bitma.jpg

 

This tends to indicate you need a different car for a predominately clockwise circuit to a predominately anti-clockwise circuit.. switch the engine polarity?

 

..or have I gone mad. :lol:


Captain's log: We are enroute to some planet whose name I cannot pronounce to do something really complicated that I don't understand.

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th_poddedvsnonpoddedchassistwist2bitma.jpg

 

This tends to indicate you need a different car for a predominately clockwise circuit to a predominately anti-clockwise circuit.. switch the engine polarity?

 

..or have I gone mad. :lol:

No your not mad Eno - use this set up below to run anti clockwise :lol:

th_foreno.jpg

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Im keen to put the debate to rest. Lets throw in podded and non podded cars for next years proxy. Im happy to go non podded and see how it stacks up against the podded cars.


cheers

rick1776

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